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Old 02-11-2011, 09:40 PM
  # 81 (permalink)  
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This thread is definately interesting, fo sho.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:41 PM
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Again, I think you got what you came here for. I'm done here.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:46 PM
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come on, Suki. Don't go. Stay in the thread. I think I rub you the wrong way because you think I'm controlling, but that's the only way to go when your well-being is on the line: "shape up, or you're gone". You cannot EVER tolerate the drunk.

I think that if the majority of you would have done that, you wouldn't have suffered as much. I know it's hard when you get involved and I really appreciate that you guys want to save me from that.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:49 PM
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How about "You are not in good shape, don't come in."

Had we done that we wouldn't have suffered at all.

Why wouldn't you want to save yourself from that?
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:04 PM
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Thumper, you're right.

I just got my answer from the roommate. He says that yes, he drinks and smokes, but in reasonable moderation, and wouldn't smoke around me. He says I can tell him I don't like him smoking, but not yet.

There was more, mostly about his hurt heart and how he likes to take care of woman. I'm all for that.

Thunder, I now realize that is the side of him that appeals to me. The vulnerability.

Well, just questioned the roommate further, but what do you guys think so far? The indication that I got before was the drinking was a little more severe than moderate, but this is what he says this time....
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:14 PM
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I'm kinda happy about what I just heard from the roommate, but cautious too. I believe the roommate wants to help me, but in the end I would think his allegiance would be to the guy I kinda like. He lives in his home, if the guy found out he talked negatively of him, he'd put him out, AND you guys should know that old saying, "bros before hoes". It's crass, but the guy I like is his friend too.

Still I have to hope that he would tell me the truth as a practicing Christian and because it's the right thing to do. He knows I'm asking because I want to avoid a relationship with an alcoholic. So there you have it guys...
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:33 PM
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Sounds to me like you've made a decision to pursue this, dogluvah.
I wish you the best

D
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:41 PM
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Hi, Dee. I'm probably going to go on a few dates with him to see what's up considering what the roommate just told me. But, I'm still going to be cautious. I cannot be with an alcoholic.

I just asked the roommate a couple more specific questions, and am waiting to hear back from him. Specifically, I want to know if he would use the word, "alcoholic" when describing my guy, and when there was that outburst about the girl in his room, how drunk was my guy-IF he was drunk at all. I'm pressing the roommate to be sure, but he did say my guy drinks in moderation mostly.

Note: I'm calling my guy of interest "my guy" in order not to be confused with the roommate.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:46 PM
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The truth is, no one posts on a forum like this if there wasn't a true and valid issue around alcoholism. Meaning if he were really a moderate drinker, you would know and wouldn't need to post here, ask his roommate or defend him.

I think that the idea of coming to this forum wouldn't have even been an issue if you truly believed he could handle his drinking.

Not sure if I'm making sense but there is a level of denial coming across and it is almost like you are trying to find some reason to hope that he really doesn't have a problem when deep down you sense he does. You have nothing to prove to us about who he is. It is your life. I'm sure he is a great guy who shares your values but has a drinking problem.

Go in with eyes WIDE open, not with blinders. That would be my only real advice. Under the Influence is a great book and there are excerpts here somewhere. Maybe read through it before you get into anything serious with your friend.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:46 AM
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Nothing is going to stop you. Nothing we say, nothing your friends/his friends say.. not even that nagging little voice that brought you here to a forum for F&F of alcoholics who have seen it/done it/got the T-shirt.

So.. the advice I would give is.. arm yourself with as much information and support as is possible. Knowledge is power and having the tools in place to deal with any consequences and fallout should it all be as this forum feels it may be, might just save you alot of crazy in the long run.

Tx
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:25 AM
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As others have said, this thread really is ...uh...entertaining, so I'm gonna hang in for awhile longer.

Alcohol issue aside, let me help you address the smoking issue. I smoke. (An NO, I am not wrinkle-y and no, I do not hack and cough all day long.) Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet. That right there should tell you all you need to know. Are Christians "allowed" to smoke? I dunno.

Anyway, when I was in the dating world I could control my smoking for an evening. Sometimes I could even control it for 8-9 hours if my date was a non-smoker and objected to it. But, just like with any addict, I soon began to figure out that I had to arrange dates so that they wouldn't be an ALL day affair or so that I would at least have an escape hatch to be able to smoke every so often. Then I got real and decided it was best if I just dated guys who didn't object to the smoking. All those guys I dated...and I dated some really great guys (!) ...none of them were "enough" to make me quit smoking. Not one. Times when I have quit have been ONLY for me and me alone. It's the only thing that really works. It's just that simple. I even told one very important man that I would quit "for him" but I never did, or could, do it "for him". Eventually I did, for ME, but then started again. It takes an average of 7-8 attempts at quitting before real cessation. My ex-husband has quit at least 100 times. He's smoking now.

That's just the reality. Again, take it or leave it.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:42 AM
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they should go on Dateline:To Catch an Identity Theft with Chris Hanson on NBC!!!
I love Chris Hansen and his shows. Especially catching those creepy predators.

Scene:
Set up the guy, thinking he is having a date with that special someone.
(who unfortunately has already started to lose her property, and her self)
Of course, he is dressed up, cause he knows she will be paying for dinner since he never does.
At the kitchen counter, sneaking in his pocket for the bottle of vodka and tips it up.
In walks Chris Hansen, with all the lights, camera equipment and crew.

CH: No, no, dont worry sir. Just have a seat.
I am Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC - Alcoholic Identity Thieves.
Would you mind showing us what you just put in your pocket?

AIT starts to sputter, "No, I will not!"

Well, it looked like a pint bottle of vodka. You told your girlfriend that you would not drink tonight.
How much have you had to drink tonight sir?

AIT "NOT THAT MUCH"



anyone who has ever seen my man Chris work a guy, you just dont know.
he is good, very good.

Beth
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:48 AM
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Heh, I've never seen that show. Too much like my job, I suppose.

I'd watch YOUR version, though!
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HeyImme View Post
My husband drinks 12 - 18 beers a night, and if you met him after his 18th, you probably wouldn't realize he'd had even one...he's just slightly more talkative. I guess I'm wondering why you would even consider going out with someone whose friends already told you they think he's an alcoholic? Hoping they're wrong doesn't make it so. Remember, you're here for a reason. It's not like we started this conversation. You cannot be that hard up for a man.
I easily drank 18 beers a night just to reach that stage.
when i hear the "click"
and everything disappears......
until tomorrow.

Amazing that your mom was an alcoholic, you have siblings that nearly died from it, you are studying for a masters in clinical psychology, but you are not hearing anything that is said.
Or you have a counter argument.

I hope you look inside for why you are attracted to this man.
Inside of you, I suggest therapy or AlAnon.
Also, I am an ACA, your blindness to many flaming red flags is almost pathological.

There, Hard Earned PhD in Life as an Alcoholic, growing up with an alcoholic father, being married to an alcoholic and having two children who struggled with addiction.

:day6

Today is a sober day for me and my children.
Dogluvah, dont feed your addiction for chaos.
Please.

Beth
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:57 AM
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Thanks for this thread. I have been following it. I almost posted earlier. Doglva, the part that caught my attention is when you wrote that you feel sorry for this guy & you are attracted to his vulnerability.(It reminds me of me & what kind of men I have been attracted to!) I think I read somewhere (maybe Alanon literature) that we (meaning those like us F&F of A's) often mistake pity for love.

You mentioned President Obama. Of course, I don't know the inside story but from the outside they look like they have a healthy partnership (even though probably on some level Mrs. Obama does a little enabling or allowing of the President's compulsions (i. e. cigarettes, power, etc.). She seems to be the one having to make the extra compromise or concessions for the President's ambitions, choices, etc. (I don't see her as weak or co-dependent by any means). I often look at their relationship (the one projected to the public) & think, "Wow! What an ideal relationship!" (Of course, I could be oh so wrong!)

No relationship is perfect. . . .while this may be true, a lot of us here have to be careful
not to use this to justify our very imperfect, unhealthy relationships. Being in a relationship with or knowingly entering a relationship w/ an A and those w/ compulsive
behaviors says & reveals a lot about us.

Good luck, whatever you decide!
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tjp613 View Post
As others have said, this thread really is ...uh...entertaining, so I'm gonna hang in for awhile longer.

Alcohol issue aside, let me help you address the smoking issue. I smoke. (An NO, I am not wrinkle-y and no, I do not hack and cough all day long.) Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet. That right there should tell you all you need to know. Are Christians "allowed" to smoke? I dunno.
tjp, if you've smoked like you say you have, I can guarantee you've got more wrinkles than you would have had had you not smoked and your lungs are pitch black. Your fingers are yellow or going to turn so soon, and your teeth are also yellow or that will happen soon also.

Anyway, when I was in the dating world I could control my smoking for an evening. Sometimes I could even control it for 8-9 hours if my date was a non-smoker and objected to it. But, just like with any addict, I soon began to figure out that I had to arrange dates so that they wouldn't be an ALL day affair or so that I would at least have an escape hatch to be able to smoke every so often. Then I got real and decided it was best if I just dated guys who didn't object to the smoking. All those guys I dated...and I dated some really great guys (!) ...none of them were "enough" to make me quit smoking. Not one. Times when I have quit have been ONLY for me and me alone. It's the only thing that really works. It's just that simple. I even told one very important man that I would quit "for him" but I never did, or could, do it "for him". Eventually I did, for ME, but then started again. It takes an average of 7-8 attempts at quitting before real cessation. My ex-husband has quit at least 100 times. He's smoking now.

That's just the reality. Again, take it or leave it.
The bottom line with you concerning quitting is you don't want it bad enough. I know how addictive smoking is, my oldest brother had the problem. But, I'm not convinced he wanted to quit bad enough even though it killed him.

Whitney Houston, as we all know, was a crack addict. Reportedly she is now clean. Why wasn't she clean for all those years she was addicted? Answer: She simply didn't want it bad enough.

And no, I won't take it. If I start dating him and he doesn't stop, I'm leaving.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:05 AM
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Dogluvah - in the unlikely event this thread is NOT a joke, I suggest you seek the care of a mental health professional in addition to Al-Anon.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:06 AM
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I already gave my opinion on the smoking issue on the alcoholism board. After reading all this, I have to say a bit more. Hopefully this is not considered offensive.
If I were in a position where I had not even gone on a real date with someone, and was already finding flaws with them to "fix", even planning how I was going to do it, I would wonder te following about myself:
What exactly is it am I looking for? A mutual give and take relationship, or a project to fix? Or am I looking for someone to "prove" something to me by giving up something? If the latter is the case, it might not stop at drinking and smoking.
Why am I going after a person when there is at least one obstacle I know of (smoking) that I can't live with, when there are plenty of others that don't have that issue?
Why do I think its OK to plan interventions, alter this person's habits when I barely know them?
Why do I think its OK to run behind their back and talk to their friends about their drinking habits/other aspects of their lives, when I again, obviously don't know them that well? If I was their wife/girlfriend already, and just found out they were doing this stuff, that might be one thing. Just a prospective date is entriely another, as one still has the choice to not get involved. It seems to me if he found out, he would be at the very least, embarrassed. Just because someone smokes/drinks does not make them fair game to gossip about.
I would also wonder if I was just a tad bit obsessive and more than a little controlling in thinking about how I can "fix" someone I barely know.
On the other side of it, if I were the person being talked/asked about, I would RUN the other way.
Controlling behaviors are no more healthy than alcoholism and can be just as addictive.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:11 AM
  # 99 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
I easily drank 18 beers a night just to reach that stage.
when i hear the "click"
and everything disappears......
until tomorrow.

Amazing that your mom was an alcoholic, you have siblings that nearly died from it, you are studying for a masters in clinical psychology, but you are not hearing anything that is said.
Or you have a counter argument.
I am definitely hearing what is being said. I already have the masters. I'm studying for a doctorate. All I am saying is we don't know if he's an alcoholic yet.

I hope you look inside for why you are attracted to this man.
Inside of you, I suggest therapy or AlAnon.
Also, I am an ACA, your blindness to many flaming red flags is almost pathological.

There, Hard Earned PhD in Life as an Alcoholic, growing up with an alcoholic father, being married to an alcoholic and having two children who struggled with addiction.

:day6

Today is a sober day for me and my children.
Dogluvah, dont feed your addiction for chaos.
Please.

Beth
Beth, I am glad you are sober. I coud be addicted/attracted to chaos. That is true, but in my next relationship and marriage, I'm looking for peace with a man that treats me like a princess. I'll settle for nothing less.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:16 AM
  # 100 (permalink)  
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Beth, did you read what I posted his roommate said about him last night? When pressed further, his second email said he wouldn't call him an alcoholic, but this person feels he does drink too much overall. The reason this person thinks he drinks too much overall is because he's lonely.

That's what I see in him too. My conclusion based on this is that if he isn't an alcoholic and he has control over this and it's not a disease, he would need to make some changes. I'm a good woman. If we do date, and it progresses, I think he may feel that I'm worth it.

What I do know is that in a person who needs to change, there must be some incentive for change to happen.

Too many people enable the alcoholic, I think most of you would agree on that. That is why a lot of you on here, probably most, stayed and put up with the problem for way too long. Coming from a family where there were alcoholics, there has to be zero tolerance. That is why Nicole kidman organized an intervention for Keith Urban. He needed help and she wasn't going to live with him until he got it. So, for those of you who think I'm desperate for a man, my thinking on this and other posts should clear it up. That thinking is: Either he gets the helps he needs to change, or I'm leaving. It's that simple. I know this sounds harsh, but it's reality. For those of you who stayed and enabled, you are responsible for your own misery. You didn't have to live with alcoholic. You should have gave that ultimatum. If he refused, then your next step was obvious. Leave. When he was ready to sober up, he could come back into your life. But, not before than. Sure, alcohol and cigs are very addicting, but anyone can quit, even if they are forced. And sometimes it takes force, and that may be wrapped up in a hospital in a straight jacket. I do ultimately the alcoholic has to want to live healthy for himself. If he doesn't and you aren't seeing any change or progress, Leave.

I'm not saying it's not hard. But, it's simple in terms of what the family member or friend has to do: Again, expect change and if it's not forthcoming, leave. Zero Tolerance. If you let the alcoholic destroy your life, then you have no one to blame for yourself. You have to make a stand for yourself.
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