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Old 02-11-2011, 11:45 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I ain't here to tell you how to raise your kids but covering up and lying to them about your drunk AW would not be high on my list.
She's blame shifting and you're enabling her by covering up for her.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:48 AM
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I agree with shellcrusher.

She's quacking, Quacking, QUACKING! You know she's lying and your son knows she's lying. Do you even have any boundaries?
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:50 AM
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RedBaron, Why do you have your six-year old policing his mother? The child is TELLING on his mother. How does he KNOW to tell on his mother? That is completely unfair to the child and I wish you would stop involving your children in this very sick ADULT dynamic. If you do not wish to go to AlAnon and get help for yourself, fine, but stop involving the children in this. Your son deserves to have the healthiest possible relationship with both his parents, whether you want him on your side of your problems with your spouse or not.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:52 AM
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She is projecting onto you. She is deflecting onto you. She is not going to buck up and change. Your kids do not trust her. You do not either.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:52 AM
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Anyway, so this morning, the youngest boy didn't want anything to do with her. At her request, I spoke to him, and told him that mommy's test came back zero, so that perhaps she hadn't been drinking. He wanted to know how come she smelled like that then, and then decided that perhaps she'd been online and figured out a way to beat the test. (Even in this tragedy, he does say the cutest things!)

Are you flippin kidding me!!? How is it cute that your little son has to come up with ways himself now, to cover up for his own mother's alcoholism. That is not cute, that is sick. And it's being reinforced and taught. I feel so bad for your kids. When are THEY going to be the ones protected and given a chance at their only one and beautiful childhood.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:54 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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First, I, too, doubt she has a lawyer. You'd have heard of it before this.

Second, I would ditch the breathalyzer. Too much drama, it won't prove much of anything, and it's not good for your child to be involved in "mommy's results."

Third, bringing up your mistakes is a classic diversionary technique.

Fourth, yes, she needs to list her resentments as part of her fourth step--including those she has against you, whether they are justified or not (incidentally, the whole point is to recognize that the resentments indicate HER problems, not yours). Step work does NOT involve her sharing her resentments with you. The only one she shares those with are God and her sponsor.

Are you going to Al-Anon? If not, I strongly suggest it. You should not be policing her with a breathalyzer--for the sake of your own well-being.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:55 AM
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It is incredulous how much we question ourselves when presented with such irrational behavior and reasoning! I have lived it and am living it, but trying to see it for what it is now. We all have our breaking points...no one else can tell you when enough is enough, but she is an adult - a sick adult that needs help...I get that, but an adult all the same. The kids are at your mercy...they must come first. I know sometimes it's hard to know which action is the lesser of two evils when it comes to your kids being without one of their parents, but the cost of them playing parent as well as being subjected to all the drama needs to be considered. When my sister was in the throes of OCD - truly broken from reality and unable to control her emotions or actions - we were forced to remove the kids from her home for their emotional protection. Of course we would have preferred to leave them in their own home and somehow shield them from what was going on just until she got better...hoping they would never have to know the horrible reality, but that was unrealistic. When she got better, we took them home. The diseased person doesn't get to decide how much of the disease others are exposed to. How many times have I done that myself, though...wondered how long I could shield the kids while I waited for a miracle so they'd never have to know. The only miracle we should expect is the one we can create.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:56 AM
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I would explore every option available to remove yourself and 2 kids from the house or have your AW go somewhere if possible. This is a very unhealthy environment for you and especially the kids. When you are living with an active A you cannot think clearly. When my STBXAW went to inpatient treatment I was finally able to really comprehend what was going on. It took 2 weeks just for the fog to lift in my head. Please try to separate you and your kids from her so you can clearly think about your next move. You must protect your kids.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:00 PM
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The only miracle we should expect is the one we can create.

Beautiful HeyImme.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:39 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I am not having my six-year old police my wife: They have learned only too well over their short years when their mother is drinking. They have asked me many times why is mommy talking funny, or why does mommy's orange juice smell different, or why does mommy get mad when she drinks from those bottles? And I have answered their questions by saying that mommy has a problem, and made it very clear to them that when mommy is in that state, they must never, ever get in the car with her. I cannot pretend that the problem doesn't exist, and I especially couldn't do so before when she was often in the house alone with them and would try to drive drunk with them in the vehicle.

Last night, the youngest came running to me about his mom. I didn't send him to check on her; he just knows the signs, and is angry about it, and does what many six-year-olds do when he sees someone doing something wrong: He tells on them. They cannot not be "involved" when they see their mother in that state. If she's around them, they are involved. They are not stupid.

As to the "cute" thing, it was about the only thing that's made me smile in the last couple of days. You have to know the kid to see the earnest way in which he says these things. I'm not minimizing the damage that is being done to them, but it does warm my heart to still see his wonderful character through the mess.

And perhaps I shouldn't have told them that mommy wasn't drinking. But I can't stand to see him not talking to his mom because of what he saw her doing. Yes, it is covering up for her, but it's no win either way.

BTW, what is quacking? I've seen it mentioned before here...
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:50 PM
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Quacking = Excuses, Lies, tall tales, General Drunk talk, BS
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
And perhaps I shouldn't have told them that mommy wasn't drinking. But I can't stand to see him not talking to his mom because of what he saw her doing. Yes, it is covering up for her, but it's no win either way.
You are not responsible for sheltering her from the logical consequences of her actions! Her choice and her actions make her own children not trust her. Yes, it's sad. But luring a child into having a false sense of security in an irresponsible adult is sadder. By lying for her, you are preventing her from owning up to what she continues to do to herself, to her children and to you, on a daily basis.

I would recommend that you cease engaging in her quacky discussions about how bad you are and how the breathalizer is faulty and blah blah quackety-blah. It's pointless to talk to her now. She is active in her addiction.

Look at her actions instead. So far, she's drank while in the tub, run away in the middle of the night to avoid getting tested, come back arguing about how bad a partner you are...Can you see the deflection?

I have serious doubts that a convo with the pastor is going to change a single thing. Call me negative, but words aren't going to change your wife's addiction.

IMO, at this point, it's time to speak to a lawyer about getting her out of the house and getting custody of the children.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:10 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
But luring a child into having a false sense of security in an irresponsible adult is sadder. By lying for her, you are preventing her from owning up to what she continues to do to herself, to her children and to you, on a daily basis.
You're right of course. Thank you for being so clear in expressing it, too. That's what I really like about this place: Honest views from people who have been there.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:19 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Red Baron, for your sake and that of your children, get thee to an Al-Anon meeting as soon as humanly possible. A breathalizer? Really? Can't you see how insane that is and how insane your life has become?

Do you want to see what it does to children the age of yours? Come by my house and you can see my now 15-year old daughter's self-inflicted scars, talk to her about what kind of boys she thinks would make a good boyfriend, hear about her depression and control-freak nature, and answer her when she asks how, as her father, I could have left her alone with her mother and kept her mother around.

I don't know if you feel guilty at all, nor do I believe you necessarily should, but if you do feel guilty that's nothing compared to how you are going to feel in 10 years if you continue to enable your wife.

You and your wife are teaching your children everything they will ever know about relationships between men and women. You can save your children, but will you?

Take care my friend, from somebody who's been there.

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Old 02-11-2011, 04:06 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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They have learned only too well over their short years when their mother is drinking. They have asked me many times why is mommy talking funny, or why does mommy's orange juice smell different, or why does mommy get mad when she drinks from those bottles? And I have answered their questions by saying that mommy has a problem, and made it very clear to them that when mommy is in that state, they must never, ever get in the car with her. I cannot pretend that the problem doesn't exist, and I especially couldn't do so before when she was often in the house alone with them and would try to drive drunk with them in the vehicle.
You're as guilty as she is, for not protecting them and giving them a better life. It's sickening really.

And yes, I'll step away from this thread now.. I'm way too triggered when children are being treated like this.

Good luck, and I hope you man up soon and protect those innocent little ones.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:15 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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I'm very glad you are here, RedBaron, because you are getting some wonderful advice in a very difficult situation.

From a loving place, I just want to point out that by telling the child that he can't trust what he knows to be the truth (that his mom was drinking), you are teaching him not to trust his instincts and also that the people he loves most won't tell him the truth. Thats how some of us were led into codependency in the first place. I was, at least.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:18 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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I have read this thread several times, and to be honest I am appalled at what is happening to your children. If you don't think so, go over to the "Adult Children Of Alcoholics" forum and do some reading.

Take Cyranoak's post, copy and paste it and then print yourself out several copies, one to put on your computer screen at work, one for your car, one for your nightstand, etc

Red Baron, for your sake and that of your children, get thee to an Al-Anon meeting as soon as humanly possible. A breathalizer? Really? Can't you see how insane that is and how insane your life has become?

Do you want to see what it does to children the age of yours? Come by my house and you can see my now 15-year old daughter's self-inflicted scars, talk to her about what kind of boys she thinks would make a good boyfriend, hear about her depression and control-freak nature, and answer her when she asks how, as her father, I could have left her alone with her mother and kept her mother around.

I don't know if you feel guilty at all, nor do I believe you necessarily should, but if you do feel guilty that's nothing compared to how you are going to feel in 10 years if you continue to enable your wife.

You and your wife are teaching your children everything they will ever know about relationships between men and women. You can save your children, but will you?

Take care my friend, from somebody who's been there.
Please get to some AlAnon meetings to learn how to set and keep some BOUNDARIES for you and the children, ie:

No drinking in the house.

No alcohol whatsoever in the house.

No returning to the house 'reeking' of alcohol.

These are YOUR boundaries, not rules for her.

Then you will have to decide what action will be taken if they are broken.

IMO your wife is NOT in recovery. She is PLAYING at recovery and is using HER VERSION of the AA program to continue to BS and manipulate.

When will 'enough' be enough for you RB? I hope soon as it is having a very bad affect on your children.

J M H O

I pray you find your answers soon for your children's sake.

Love and hugs,
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:30 PM
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The reality is that she's broken every boundary that I've ever set, and she'll just break them again. So what it really comes down to is whether I want to roll the dice on a divorce. And, as I said in the earlier thread, I'm playing for some big stakes there. I say no reeking of booze; she comes home reeking, and I obviously can't throw her out of what is after all her own house without a court order; so off I go to court, she comes up with some abusive husband rubbish with the help of a slick attorney, and I am the one out of the house and the kids are stuck with her and her drinking. Yeah, the court ougth to find in my favor, but like I say, it's a hell of a roll.

As to Ms. "You're Just as Guilty" you should try being a man in this situation and seeing what your options are. If I were a woman, this would have been resolved in my favor years ago. I would have thrown my spouse out, divorced them and be living off the half of the assets with certain custody of the kids. But it doesn't work like that for a guy. And no amount of self-righteousness will change that.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
The reality is that she's broken every boundary that I've ever set, and she'll just break them again. So what it really comes down to is whether I want to roll the dice on a divorce. And, as I said in the earlier thread, I'm playing for some big stakes there. I say no reeking of booze; she comes home reeking, and I obviously can't throw her out of what is after all her own house without a court order; so off I go to court, she comes up with some abusive husband rubbish with the help of a slick attorney, and I am the one out of the house and the kids are stuck with her and her drinking. Yeah, the court ougth to find in my favor, but like I say, it's a hell of a roll.

As to Ms. "You're Just as Guilty" you should try being a man in this situation and seeing what your options are. If I were a woman, this would have been resolved in my favor years ago. I would have thrown my spouse out, divorced them and be living off the half of the assets with certain custody of the kids. But it doesn't work like that for a guy. And no amount of self-righteousness will change that.
I will speak as a man in the same situation currently. My STBXAW has also been to inpatient many times and is about to get out of from her most recent stay. We have a 3 y/o son and a 18 month old daughter. My wife has battled alcohol for years. After we had kids it got progressivley worse until I come home one day with her passed out with the kids. She goes to rehab and I go see a laywer. Since your wife has been to treatment, it will not be hard to prove she has alcohol issues. Within 3 days of filing for divorce I had a court order giving me sole emergency custody of both kids. There are also options about getting her out of the house. It does not matter if you are male or female. It's what's best for the KIDS. Period. Go see a lawyer now. Consultations are free. They will lay out your options. Please do this for your children.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:54 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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RB, there are more than a few men on this site who have custody of their children because their wives are alcoholics. It's not like it was back in the 60s. The wife does not automatically get custody anymore. Go out and get the best family lawyer you can find and state your case. If you provide the most stability for the children, then you will get primary custody. The best way to find out exactly what your rights are in this situation is to consult with a good attorney.
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