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My wife didn't come home tuesday:( and :)

Old 02-03-2011, 07:11 AM
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That does sound like good steps in the right direction, which is really all we can ask for, keep making steps in the best direction, and eventually we get there. Glad the routine is settling down and you are getting some support from family.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks View Post
My husband was misdiagnosed as ADD, bipolar, anxiety disorder, sleep disorder and given meds for all including benzos when in actuality the symptoms were all part of his alcoholism. He became addicted to the pills on top of the alcohol and fully believed he needed all of it to survive for over 10 years. He came close to death many, many times and his life spun completely out of control from his alcohol/prescription drug addiction.

Today he is drug and alcohol free and he is not anxious, bipolar and is sleeping great (sleeping now) ... however he is ADD but does not need meds for that!

Knowledge does not keep you sober but understanding how you got to where you are is helpful in recovery ... let her know that in time she will feel good again without medicating herself if she gets on a healthy recovery path.
It is amazing to me how many people report these same issues. On SR we represent just a small fraction of those affected. Even knowing this, I tend to think, "It's me; there is something WRONG with ME. Why am I like this?" When in fact there are huge numbers of people who have these problems. Whether the problems reveal themselves as alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorders, or some other issue, I am beginning to believe there is something larger that all these things result from. I've no idea what that would be. Maybe that is what psychiatry is all about. Sometimes I am overwhelmed by it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
It is amazing to me how many people report these same issues. On SR we represent just a small fraction of those affected. Even knowing this, I tend to think, "It's me; there is something WRONG with ME. Why am I like this?" When in fact there are huge numbers of people who have these problems. Whether the problems reveal themselves as alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorders, or some other issue, I am beginning to believe there is something larger that all these things result from. I've no idea what that would be. Maybe that is what psychiatry is all about. Sometimes I am overwhelmed by it.
That is why I really love this site... alcoholism and addiction is extremely complicated and no two people are alike. However, all of us have a similar worldview and belief system that has been developed through all we have been led to believe is truth.

From a young age we have bombarded with images of alcohol that are glamorous and attractive when in fact, it is truly a poison even for those of us who are not alcoholic. I don't know a single person who says their lives have been greatly enhanced ever since they started drinking (or smoking weed, or taking pills etc).

Many of us have seen alcohol in our own families used as a way to "have fun, escape or just part of unwinding at the end of the day". It is what going home is to us.

Additionally we grew up in age that sells "better living through pharmeceuticals"... multi, multi, multi billion dollar industry. Drug development is always done with a bottom line as its biggest factor and even borderline drugs that may end up as lawsuit material have the numbers crunched before being pulled by the big pharma giants.

Are some drugs good? Yes. Are all drugs good... definately not. Are we over prescribed? Absolutely.

It is not 1904 when your doctor was your neighbor and your friend. Does that mean all doctors are bad? No, it means as consumers we need to do our homework and be involved in our own recovery from illness and from addiction.

Even in rehabs they rely often on medication... my husband titrated himself off against medical advice and he is very glad he did! He was being overmedicated based on previous diagnoses that were mistaken. (This rehab did know not to put him on benzos although a few years ago they were part of their regimen.)

This website is so helpful because it allows people to discuss their different experiences and the different philosophies of treatment of addiction. As we have experienced every type of treatment and every single addiction treating drug on the planet we found out what didn't work for my husband. In the end it was gettting off of all mind altering meds and getting firmly plugged into AA as well as his Christ centered recovery network.

Today he is having a PAWS day... benzos are a long road of recovery along with all the other chemicals he poured down his throat... but he knows it will pass and we all know he is experiencing it. Today we are full of hope because we know the day is coming when his brain fires on all cylinders and all the neural pathways are reconnected normally.

It is a good thing he had a lot of gray matter to begin with because he murdered staggering numbers of brain cells for many years.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:09 AM
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I agree with Lexi and Tallulah that perhaps her mum does need to see her. The longer we hide our addictions from our loved ones the easier it is to pretend that the problem is not really there. The relief I felt when I eventually told my husband about my drinking was huge - there was also no going back after that. No more pretending that I did not have a problem.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
When in fact there are huge numbers of people who have these problems. Whether the problems reveal themselves as alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorders, or some other issue, I am beginning to believe there is something larger that all these things result from. I've no idea what that would be. Maybe that is what psychiatry is all about. Sometimes I am overwhelmed by it.
Hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but there are lots of folks that believe contrails (airplane exhaust), additives in water and food,(preservatives and whatnot) are placed there on purpose as casual mind control chemicals. Just a thought.

Before folks jump on the organic food stuff, some of my family are farmers out in the midwest. They sell a lot of "organic" crops to a 'to remain nameless' large produce distributor. Its not what you think. When they dust and spray, they do not dircetly spray those fields, but blow over, rain wash off, all that occurs. They can tell by how well the crops do. Those crops are still sold as "organic". All those fields are right next to each other. Just some more food for thought when you pay double price for "organic" products.

Anyway, the wife called again this morning, she sounded good. She is still thinking about letting her mom visit. Based on the thoughts above, I think it would be best for her mom to see her. I want her to see what I have been struggling with, how bad it got. No more hiding. I like that idea, "It is what it is."

I also saw my counselor today, I went through everything, all the stuff I have talked about on here and the feedback I received. She seemed to think I am doing well, and honestly, I feel like my normal self again.

We are working on finding an appropriate counselor for the boys. Most of the facilities in our area won't take them unless they have been abused. Fortunately, they have not been abused.
I have a few resources to check on. At a minimum,they said we could go to a family counselor, me and the boys. That would help some. Not their specialty, but better than nothing.

I will keep on keeping on, as I always do.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:19 AM
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What does PAWS stand for? I have been jumping on this A related jargon fairly quickly, but the best I could come up with for that is:
Post Alcohol Withdrawal Symptoms?
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:19 AM
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Sounds good, Marlin.
I'm part of the crew that thinks your MIL should see her Daughter. I'm also well versed in how manipulative people can try to be. My AW flat out lied to her mom with me standing right there. Good thing I had my memory chip in my pocket and asked if anyone wanted to watch a real life drama on the TV.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher View Post
Good thing I had my memory chip in my pocket and asked if anyone wanted to watch a real life drama on the TV.
Now THAT"S what I'm talking about. Talk about your "butt-puckering" response.

I'd have paid good money to have been a fly on the wall during that little exchange.

Thanks and God bless us all,
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher View Post
Sounds good, Marlin.
I'm part of the crew that thinks your MIL should see her Daughter. I'm also well versed in how manipulative people can try to be. My AW flat out lied to her mom with me standing right there. Good thing I had my memory chip in my pocket and asked if anyone wanted to watch a real life drama on the TV.
That is why I purchased a digital recorder for my meeting with the ex-doc this evening. I want proof if I need it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:44 AM
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If she's genuinely doing it for herself, that is a VERY good sign.
It doesn't mean she won't relapse, but it does mean that she wants to get better for herself, not just because you told her to - and that she's actually willing to work a program, rather than just go for the motions.
My XABF never got that far.

I am so happy for you!

As for the MIL, I agree, she should see her daughter now. The truth can hurt, but the truth can also heal, and right now the more supportive people in her life that are exposed to the truth and educating themselves about her problem, the better your wife's chances of recovery will get because she'll have fewer places to hide from her own consequences.
I never truly understood the meaning of "tough love" until I became involved with an alcoholic.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:02 AM
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I pretty much agree with your feelings about the medical clan. And good luck with what ever you hope to accomplish with the doc tonight, although I doubt he'll say or do anything incriminating.

My axw used to have a doctor she used to affectionately call "dr. script". She'd just phone him up and he'd shoot her a script to the local pharmacy, for whatever she "needed" at the time.

Man, there was a time back in my "less tolerant" youth (10yrs ago!) when I'd of beat that azzhole down if I thought I could get away with it. But I've graduated Anger Management with honors, so I'm much better now.

Karma's funny though. Toward the end of my tragic tale, I got a phone call from the ER of a hospital across the street from his office to come get my wife. Seems my axw had been in his examination room waiting for him, with about a .4 BAC, (that's roughly 5x the legal limit here) plus what ever scripts she had from him, and due to her habit of not eating for days at a time, fell out.

He found her unconscious and had to call for an ambulance from across the street. Hope that didn't disrupt his day too much. HA.

The other funny part was, I was about 200 miles out when I got the call, and axw had to cool her jets at the ER for about 5 hours, till I could get there to spring her. They wouldn't let her leave. Oh, and the ER's here, they don't serve alcohol. BWAAHAAA.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:26 AM
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Thread-jacking: Coyote, you make me laugh. (Thanks!) Your 'butt-puckering response' reminds me of the movie French Kiss and the Kevin Kline character "When people tell me they are happy, my a-- begins to twitch." Maybe the other side of the coin?

Marlin, I think it's an excellent idea finding a counselor for the kids. I'm astounded that the ones you've spoken to already only talk to them if there's abuse. Keep looking; there are counselors out there that specialize in addictions and the effects on the family and kids.

Best wishes.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty View Post
Thread-jacking: Coyote, you make me laugh. (Thanks!) Your 'butt-puckering response' reminds me of the movie French Kiss and the Kevin Kline character "When people tell me they are happy, my a-- begins to twitch." Maybe the other side of the coin?

Marlin, I think it's an excellent idea finding a counselor for the kids. I'm astounded that the ones you've spoken to already only talk to them if there's abuse. Keep looking; there are counselors out there that specialize in addictions and the effects on the family and kids.

Best wishes.
The wall I keep hitting is their age. Most of em work with +7 yr olds.

Good news!!!
I just got off the phone with the AW. We talked for about 30 minutes. She is starting to recognize how bad her problem is. They made her watch a video about the specific drugs she was on, and the long term affects of their abuse and whatnot. I think she is scared that she caused permanent damage. I hope not.
With her psych degree, she expressed a strong desire to get into the field of helping others that are going through what she is right now. She knows it will be a while before she can do this, but she wants to get her masters in the field. She also mentioned how it is a great "portable"career. That is a military term for jobs for spouses that are easily found no matter where we move. There will always be sick people.
I know, I know, it's way too early to get excited, but it keeps getting better. Talking about portable careers means she wants to stay together, and talking about a career period at all means she is looking to the future, she knows she can't do that if she is doped up. She earned her bachelors in a little over 2 years, going full load, all year round. She can do what she wants when she puts her mind to it. She is a very dedicated person, hence how bad her addictions became.
Personally, I could never do that kind of work, I don't have it in me, too depressing, and honestly, I don't care about people in general. I care far more about animals than I do people.

She has now been in for 10 days, and she said she has another 12 to go. I guess she agreed to stay longer? She also asked if I can bring her mom with me to visit to her. That is good in two ways. One, she didn't want me to visit, now she does, and two, she wants to see her mother.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:31 PM
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Well, no luck on the counselor yet. I have tried 10 of the 12 recommended facilities in my area.

The appointment with the doc/nurse went well. They agreed to be recorded. I managed to get them to say that they agreed that xanax was very dangerous, as was ambien. They agreed that a person may not be able to watch small kids while taking those meds. I asked why they did not call DSS or whatnot when they knew she was taking care of children while on those pills. They said that was my responsibility. I told them I was on deployment, how am I supposed to know? They had no response to that.

They admitted that she knew my wife drank alcohol, that she prescribed enough meds for daily dosing. How is it possible to drink, even socially, and daily dose, and never take the drugs and the alcohol in the same day? No response.

They also admitted that she had to be addicted to both ambien and xanax based on the time she had been taking the meds, and that she has only seen my wife 3 times in 7 months, yet prescribed the meds over the phone. They said they only question drug abuse when they have suspicion that it is occuring. Cancelling over 50% of her appointments last minute and asking for them over the phone was not enough incentive for them to investigate. BS.

The rest of the meeting went along those lines, me asking leading questions that resulted in them admitting things they could have done to prevent any of this from happening. They tried to tell me that it is the family's responsibility to tell the doctor if there is a problem. I didn't even know about the pills until it was too late. If these pills are dangerous, shouldn't they tell me that she is taking them, and that it must be supervised? They said it was not their job to call the family and tell them about the meds? How does that make any sense? They said it was my job to report drug abuse, but not their job to inquire if the abuse is possible, even if they know there is an addiction. I also asked what their goal was. They said it was help people address their problems and provide the needed therapy. I looked around their office and lobby, dozens of drug advertisements, ambien, lunesta, and so on. Not a single therapy related advertisement, IE, meditation, excercise, hypnosis and other alternative methods. They do not provide those services, therefore do not advertise them. So what therapy do you offer...talking and medication. AFIK, there is nothing you can cure with just words for 30 minutes in each month, and hundreds of psychotropic pills.

Further research, their establishment has 5 reviews, 3 of which were one star, along the lines of mine. They are just drug pushers, and get you out of the office in just a few minutes.

They asked what the purpose of the meeting was after about 45 minutes. They asked how this would help my wife. I was quite proud of my witty retort. "No one can help her but herself at this point".

I told them this was for me, and it makes me feel better. That immediately stopped their counter questioning, since they had just told me that their goals were to help people. I told them to send the bill to my insurance company for the hour...lol.

I do feel better, and I have a ton of stuff to help fuel my fire. I need to compile it and sort it. Maybe one day I can use it as a case for help in reform of the control of these worthless drugs.

I feel much much better. Empowered so to speak, I learned that I ammuch smarter when it comes to question and answer than a doctor and a nurse with over 60 years of experience between them. Yippee. Aren't I special?

The phone calls from the wife are getting much more coherent as well. She left two messages this evening while I was picking up MIL, she was definitely sober and aware.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:15 PM
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Hello Marlin, and pardon me for jumping in

First off, congratulations on the wonderful news about your wife. I can't even imagine how relieved you must feel at the slow but positive change in her attitude.

Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
....I have a few resources to check on. At a minimum,they said we could go to a family counselor, me and the boys. That would help some. Not their specialty, but better than nothing.....
Because of the age of your boys a family counselor would actually be better, as that would help improve the "bond" between you and your children. If you shop around a little you will find that there are family counselors that specialize in alcoholism and drug addiction issues. A good place to get a reference for such counselors is at a meeting of al-anon, because most people at those meetings are seeing either a counselor or a lawyer. Just walk in, sit thru the meet and at the end tell folks that you would like to know if anybody has a good counselor.

Another resource is al-anon meetings at the larger military bases. Check with the base Chaplain, meetings are usually held in the chapel. The smaller bases might not have the meetings in the chapel, but they'll be around somewhere.

Mike
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:37 AM
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Well, in the last few days I have talked with my wife four 3 or 4 hours. I talked to her current doc for a few hours as well. She is doing a ton better. She offered to stay the 28 days on her own!! The doc said she is finally going with the therapy and not trying to fight it anymore. From talking to her, it sounds genuine now and she invited,even encouraged my MIL and me to come visit her when we are allowed to. She also has shown a persistent desire to get stuff to do her hair, and nicer clothes. That is a good thing as well, they won't allow her to have makeup, but authorized her brush and pick to be brought in, they store them in a safe place to prevent any danger to the other patients that could take them from her. She hasn't cared about her appearance since she got there.
The doc and I talked about her past, and we now understand why this has happened. The drug and alcohol abuse, the emotional abuse toward me (and early in her life her parents/siblings). He diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder. I did some research, you could write a book about her. It fits that perfectly. Upon further research, it is often treated as bipolar, or just anxiety and so on. Drugs are NOT to be prescribed to someone with this disorder as it just makes the other problems worse. The only one they are going to treat with meds is depression due to the possibility of suicide, and the fact that she has never abused them in the last 10 years. She gets that she can never have any drugs/alcohol again that have any type of dependency associated with them. BPD patients are quickly addicted to anything. Gambling is another problem, which she has, when we lived in San Diego, there were times that I dragged her out of the casino crying or screaming. Fortunately its not a problem here since there are none, and no online gaming allowed in SC either.
Her treatment is all based on behavioral therapy. This fits so well, her EXTREME hot and cold toward me, her late night exploits, her inability to keep stable friends for any period of time,her chemical abuse... The list goes on. One thing that doesn't match, most women (and it is a 7:1 ration for those diagnosed with this disorder that only affects 1-2% of people in america) tend to cut themselves. He thinks this is explained by the fact that she likes piercings. I have limited them to her ears(she has about 13 total in her ears, she has an eyebrow ring, and a subtle monroe piercing (a small stud that goes through your cheek, much like monroe's mole). She also loves tattoos, but I have limited these to small, indiscreet tats as well. If she had her way, she would have a ton of them. She is always trying to get me to get more as well, but I only get them where they can't be seen in business attire, and I convince her to do the same, which is much more difficult for a woman. But she is obsessed with both. That kind of fills in her cutting/poking symptom.
This is good news. On the flip side, it is a lifetime problem, as there is no cure. But as Joe used to say, "knowing is half the battle".
She told me today that she recognizes that she has different people inside her, not in the schizophrenic way, they don't communicate to one another, but rather that she can be different people, the Dr. Jeckyl Mr.hide concept.
She has also become the Mother Hen in the facility. The nurses let her where it seems to help, she does have a background in this area, and has worked in the rehab field with seniors and mentally handicapped before we had kids. Not drug rehab, but mental type stuff. This is just a different form. I feel bad for her nurses, LOL. I know how persistent she can be when it comes to helping people. She is also one of the Old Timers there. Most of the people cycle through in 5-7days. That immediately bestows her trust from the new patients as they arrive. She is no longer drugged up, so she is coherent, and I would guess from a patient perspective, an inspiration. She is so bubbly and charismatic when she is sober. That is part of what helped her score meds so easy. It is virtually impossible to not like her when she is sober and you don't know her dark side.
The doc did point out that I should go to counseling, which I already am, since I seem to thrive off of this good/evil relationship. Most BPD are diagnosed when the family dumps the sick person. I haven't done that, because for some sick reason, I seem to enjoy it. If it weren't for the kids, this would probably keep happening indefinitely until some other bad thing happened. I suppose this makes us an even better match. She apologized for her hurtful words, this therapy she is going through must be helping, she rarely ever apologizes for anything. She offered these apologies on her own, I didn't even bring it up.
It is a shame that it takes a catastrophe to bring a family together. But we will be together, and she is wanting to start her AA meetings ASAP. Once again, I stress how I understand that this is early in the process, but armed with new knowledge of her condition and how to work with it, we WILL get through this with our family safe and intact.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes View Post
Hello Marlin, and pardon me for jumping in

First off, congratulations on the wonderful news about your wife. I can't even imagine how relieved you must feel at the slow but positive change in her attitude.



Because of the age of your boys a family counselor would actually be better, as that would help improve the "bond" between you and your children. If you shop around a little you will find that there are family counselors that specialize in alcoholism and drug addiction issues. A good place to get a reference for such counselors is at a meeting of al-anon, because most people at those meetings are seeing either a counselor or a lawyer. Just walk in, sit thru the meet and at the end tell folks that you would like to know if anybody has a good counselor.

Another resource is al-anon meetings at the larger military bases. Check with the base Chaplain, meetings are usually held in the chapel. The smaller bases might not have the meetings in the chapel, but they'll be around somewhere.

Mike
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I wanted to mention how awesome the military support has been. I asked for help this tuesday, bt yesterday, I had 3 social workers and 2 doctors working to help us. These are good docs, military docs, not money grubbing civilian docs. All my appointments were walk in, they just cancelled and rescheduled their previous patients. They have been awesome, and are helping me with the paperwork to get stationed where I can support my family the best I can, be it near family, or military treatment facilities. A HUGE weight off of myshoulders. I can continue my career, perhaps on a new path, but I can finish my service, and take care of my family!!
I also managed to win the battle of having my wife's prior facility removed from the Tricare sponsored doctor list. It takes a bit of time, but with my recorded conversation and their answers to my questions, it is most likely to be a quick process. I know its a small win, but its a start. If I can do that in a week, what can I accomplish in a year?
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:01 AM
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Glad to hear things are going well for your wife, Marlin, but I do have a bit of concern about what sounds to me like overly-controlling behavior tendencies on your part. I realize a lot of that has felt necessary to keep the ship afloat, but it is not really conducive to a good marriage or a healthy lifestyle.

I'm not trying to jump on you, it's just something you may want to keep an eye on. The only person you can really control is yourself. And even when you CAN control your wife, it isn't really your place, or your right, to do it.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Glad to hear things are going well for your wife, Marlin, but I do have a bit of concern about what sounds to me like overly-controlling behavior tendencies on your part. I realize a lot of that has felt necessary to keep the ship afloat, but it is not really conducive to a good marriage or a healthy lifestyle.

I'm not trying to jump on you, it's just something you may want to keep an eye on. The only person you can really control is yourself. And even when you CAN control your wife, it isn't really your place, or your right, to do it.
This is a 100% true statement and I do not feel 'jumped on' at all. I fall into the personality type of an ENTP. Unfortunately, via my career, I have evolved into an even more controlling person as it greatly increases my chance of success in the military environment. I often non forcefully control my wife in the aspect that she makes poor choices and I try to prevent those poor choices. Her abuse of meds has made this controlling worse in that it made me have to control her for safety. I can't stand to see people fail when the solution is right in front of their face.
She gets tattoos, but I put the stipulation that they shouldn't be visible in business clothes. Why eliminate a future job position because of an impulsive decision now? I have several tattoos, at my wife's request, just none are visible in slacks and short sleeve shirt...except she did convince me to get one fairly small tat on my inner forearm.

I plan all of our family outings, where we go on vacation and so on. She always defers to me to do it. If I asked "Where do we want to go for dinner?", she will respond with, "I don't care, just pick somewhere." I am not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg so to speak. Do I control because she makes me control or relinquishes control, or does she allow me control because I always control anyway? Not sure, that is one of the things I am going to talk to the counselor about. I am open minded about, heck, if you can call me on it just based on these postings, there must be something to it. Thank you for bringing it up, it is one of the things I need to work on. I take after my father in that aspect, the concept of if you want it done right, do it yourself.

Ironically, the doctor told me this morning that if they do write meds for her, I have to control the dosing and keep them in a safe. I said no way. My AW's primary complaint is that I am too controlling, no way am I accepting responsibility for her meds and their control. If she wanted a pill and I wouldn't give it to her, she would say I am using the meds to control her. That is why I am not visiting unless she tells me to. I am trying to put her in control again. It is hard on my part, another sign that I have a problem, but I am working on it.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:49 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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IME, the idea that I can or do control anyone is an illusion. For me, it is a way to maintain order in my mind. I used to be very strong in my attempts to control everything and everyone around me. That kind of thing does not make for nice relationships. Dealing with anyone who did not conform in certain ways would make me go ballistic. Especially if what they said or did contradicted my strongly held beliefs. Anger management has helped in that respect. So has Al-Anon, and yoga. What has also helped is realizing that I take on too much from the people I interact with. Doing that, taking on their stuff, their emotions, their words or behaviors as part of me, causes me some VERY serious problems. I have been learning how to set and maintain personal boundaries over the last couple years. I think it is working. Though I'm sure there is more to it than just boundaries.

Thanks for sharing Marlin.
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