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My AW comes home Tuesday, what do I do.

Old 02-01-2011, 02:37 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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3Cs. You did not cause this, you cannot control this, you cannot cure this.

Ok, I'm gonna say it.. again.. because I care about you. The Drs did NOT straddle your AW wife and force these pills down her throat (same with the alcohol). She procured, she took, she got the effects. She owns this. Her responsibility. Her options. Her choice.

No matter what life throws at us, whatever hardships we have to endure, whatever third parties say/do/think.. WE have a choice. Hers was to do pills/alcohol. Her life, her decision.

Take care of your babies.. and you.

Tx
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:38 PM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
...A husband and wife are a team, you succeed as a team, you fail as a team. There are no sides to pick within the marriage...
I think this only works when you don't have kids. After that the rules change. Someone needs to represent them and in your case, that's you. I admire your determination to help your wife but when she's passed out and your 4 year old is jumping on her to wake her up, it's no longer a team thing.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:02 PM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=tallulah;2851013]K. This is just my opinion.. as ever, take what you want and leave the rest. [QUOTE=tallulah;2851013]

All, you don't have to open with these types of statements with me, I am fed up with the PC pussyfooting around we as Americans seem to be obsessed with right now. You can't offend me, I take nothing too personally, or else I would have murdered my AW long long ago. Thank you for your posts and experiences, having said that:


You need to stop making excuses for your AW. Say the Dr you refer to did erroneously give her meds, SHE popped them, SHE took them, SHE did this knowing that it was continuing to use a substance for which she was supposed to be getting treatment.
I read through all the xanax threads, and other threads on here. She did not choose to continue taking those pills. They cause a irreversible chemical reaction in your brain that makes you need those pills. She honestly believes she needs them. Her brain tells her that. It is like holding a hot pan and your brain tells you its cold, are you going to let go?
At that point, under doctor supervision, they have the obligation to say no to her. If they thought there was an immediate medical problem, they should have called a real doctor, or taken her to an actual hospital, instead, they "self medicated" in a manner of speaking.
Doesn't change anything, they fell for a As manipulation, the thing they should be experts at avoiding and dealing with. Rant off....
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:07 PM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher View Post
I think this only works when you don't have kids. After that the rules change. Someone needs to represent them and in your case, that's you. I admire your determination to help your wife but when she's passed out and your 4 year old is jumping on her to wake her up, it's no longer a team thing.
Hmmm, touche, that is whu I put her in rehab. FOr better or for worse, she is still my wife,and I will give her every fighting chance I can. But once again, it will no longer be at the risk of my children's safety. I see that now, that is the biggest thing I have taken away from all this, I have let go of my denial as far as the danger she poses to my children. Now, I still have to work on the blame thing, I have gotten better, I am partially responsible, the doctors are majority responsible, and of course, she is ultimately responsible...there, I said it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:09 PM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
...and of course, she is ultimately responsible...there, I said it.
There you go!
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:13 PM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=MarlinVX;2851159][QUOTE=tallulah;2851013]K. This is just my opinion.. as ever, take what you want and leave the rest.
Originally Posted by tallulah View Post

All, you don't have to open with these types of statements with me, I am fed up with the PC pussyfooting around we as Americans seem to be obsessed with right now. You can't offend me, I take nothing too personally, or else I would have murdered my AW long long ago. Thank you for your posts and experiences, having said that:




I read through all the xanax threads, and other threads on here. She did not choose to continue taking those pills. They cause a irreversible chemical reaction in your brain that makes you need those pills. She honestly believes she needs them. Her brain tells her that. It is like holding a hot pan and your brain tells you its cold, are you going to let go?
At that point, under doctor supervision, they have the obligation to say no to her. If they thought there was an immediate medical problem, they should have called a real doctor, or taken her to an actual hospital, instead, they "self medicated" in a manner of speaking.
Doesn't change anything, they fell for a As manipulation, the thing they should be experts at avoiding and dealing with. Rant off....
I'm not American I don't do PC ***** footing around.. probably as my post would testify to.

I shared my experience. It's a take it or leave it kind of thing. I appreciate your reasoned response. It doesn't change the subtext (for want of a better word) that I get from reading the thread.

I wish you the best.

Tx
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:15 PM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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On a side note, I wonder if I am the only person that posts something, and then reads it like 50 times, analyzing their own thoughts, looking for patterns, causes, things to improve. I like reading my own posts, almost like I am looking into someone else's life. It makes me feel better. I still have a sense of humor, although nothing about this is funny. Life will go on, but damn, it sucks right now.
LOL

I do the same thing. I read it over and over and somehow re-evaluate my own thinking thrugh that.

I agree with the "manipulation" post though. You can tell the doctors all kinds of things and they in turn prescribe what they fell is needed.

Look at those people with munchauser syndrom (spell ??). It can take years of them self harming and making a hospital their vacation home before the doctors finally catch on.

Also, sometimes a certain meds will not work after a while and something else is prescribed in it's place.

I think we would need a little more of your wifes medical and emotional history to really judge her choices.

Not that I'm expecting you to, of course, I'm just saying we don't see the whole picture.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:25 PM
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I try to shelter the phone conversations with friends and family from them, but I know they hear. Their little ears are everywhere.

Hey Marlin,

Yours is a heartbreaking story for sure, just like a lot of us here on SR. I got sole custody of LMC (Little Miss Coyote) when she was only 5 years old. I've tried hard not to bad mouth her mom these last 4 years (not 100% successful) and she is mad as hell about her situation. Can't say I blame her, she's basically motherless.

One thing I learned on here and in Al-Anon is to be straight up with my daughter about what is going on in her life. The consensus among ACoA's seems to be that all the lying and cover up that often goes along with the alcoholism, ultimately was far more crazy making, than the alcoholic parents nonsense.

Little kids KNOW something is really wrong, even if they don't quite get it yet, and if the sober parent tries to shield them by hiding what's really going on, by basically telling them that what they are seeing, and hearing, and feeling isn't really happening, then it is far more damaging.

I've told LMC the truth from the very beginning, that her mom has alcoholism, and is sick and can't live with us any more. Granted it's stuff that no little kid should have to deal with, but I have no control over that.

Is my kid damaged by all this? You bet she is, it's a life altering situation to be a little girl raised by her 58 yo dad, and for all practical purposes be motherless. But I can't change any of that, but I can do damage control, in the form of letting her know that what she sees and feels is REAL.

BTW, I did a terrible disservice to my daughter the first 4 years of her life when I spent all my time and energy trying to "fix" her mom. She was basically ignored by both her parents.

At some point it finally dawned on me that I was effing up big time, by spending all my time trying to save a grown alcoholic woman who didn't want saving, at the expense of my helpless child. Once I switched gears and began protecting my child, as you are, my path became more clear.

BTW, I will repeat what others have said, take care of YOU first, other wise you'll be of little use to your boys.

You're a good Dad.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:05 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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hey there,
you've got a lot on your plate right now, both practically and a lot of emotions running around. I understand your anger, and perhaps some of it rightly sits at the door of the doctors who "treated" her. But it seems like trying to fight that fight right now might not really be a priority? It could be something that you come back to at a later date. Taking on the whole of big pharma and the whole medical profession is not a "today before breakfast I will" sort of thing.

Its also an appealing concept, that the drugs flipped a switch in her head, because then you can be angry at "them", not her, who you love and that's easier to reconcile emotionally. Plus if you can just get the pills out of her system then she'll be back to her real self, which is again a much better scenario than her making repeated choices to carry on getting high no matter what devastation that caused.

I hope you're right, and time will tell whether you are or not so debating it is fairly pointless. In the meantime you have to think about yourself (number one) then your kids (number two, because if you collapse who cares for them then?): safeguarding the physical and emotional stability of yourself and those who are truely dependent on you (the children).

Your wife is in an expert facility surrounded by proffessionals who deal with those in her position day in day out. This is what she needs. This is not your problem to fix, it is hers with their help, if she wants to. You cannot engineer a solution to her problems, frankly you don't have the skills and emotional distance.

Given the relapse rate for people who are battling addictions, you may want to consider giving her time to prove that she wants to do this and has learned the skills to do it before bringing her back into your home.

I understand you seem to prefer straight talking? so another thing to ponder: you stated earlier that if she chooses to cheat on you (whilst under the influence) then the marriage is over. But if she chooses to drink drive your kids or get so F'd up she passes out with them in her care it isn't? your decisions are yours to make, but I wonder why you would think she is culpable in the first instance but not the second.

it's a crappy situation, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, (())
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:21 PM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=tallulah;2851174][QUOTE=MarlinVX;2851159]
Originally Posted by tallulah View Post
I'm not American I don't do PC ***** footing around.. probably as my post would testify to.

Tx
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thanks for the laugh, with my extensive forum experience, you would think I would check the location info first Score one for you....

Originally Posted by kiki5711 View Post
LOL

I do the same thing. I read it over and over and somehow re-evaluate my own thinking thrugh that.

I agree with the "manipulation" post though. You can tell the doctors all kinds of things and they in turn prescribe what they fell is needed.

Look at those people with munchauser syndrom (spell ??). It can take years of them self harming and making a hospital their vacation home before the doctors finally catch on.

Also, sometimes a certain meds will not work after a while and something else is prescribed in it's place.

I think we would need a little more of your wifes medical and emotional history to really judge her choices.

Not that I'm expecting you to, of course, I'm just saying we don't see the whole picture.
Whole picture in a can,she hurt her back as a teen playing softball, nothing done to repair it, finished her degree, we got married, Tricare covers everything for military families. Docs said no to surgery consult since we had no children, and a back surgery and pregnancy could be devastating, so they treated with pain killers and injections. She was an art major(major in psych, minor in music), very sensitive in general, successfully been on ADs since before we met. Back pain treated with increasingly stronger opiates. Kids were born, surgery finally an option. This after 5 or 6 years of opiates, pre-xanax, ambien, alcohol. We moved around, Guam, San Diego, Norfolk, back to San Diego, now Charleston. I am on shore duty, so lots of time at home and for me to watch kids so she could go to doctors. grrrr....
Then came the kicker when opiates were reduced. She couldn't sleep, doc prescribed the 2nd worse drug, ambien. That was ok for a few months before I figured out she wasn't sleeping with them, but staying up all night on the puter and whatnot. We both drank socially, nothing out of hand. Usually not during the week at all. Then came the "anxiety", I had started flushing her ambien at this point and we started fighting about her pills. Enter xanax a few years ago. After that, it was a roller coaster of xanax, topomax, valium and the list goes on. Alcohol got worse for her. She got a part time job to mitigate her 'boredom' and help get her out of the house and help reduce alcohol problem. The people who she works with are career minimum wagers, not a good influence on her. Mostly younger singles and older divorcees that party a lot. She was intrigued by that lifestyle, (something she never experienced, she lived with her parents while going to a private christian college). Surgery was done, opiates started going away, new psych prescribed whatever she asked for. It was all down hill from there. That is when alcohol got crazy, good friends transferred away, only drunk dead beat friends left. The rest, so to speak, is history.

Originally Posted by coyote21 View Post
I try to shelter the phone conversations with friends and family from them, but I know they hear. Their little ears are everywhere.

Hey Marlin,

Yours is a heartbreaking story for sure, just like a lot of us here on SR. I got sole custody of LMC (Little Miss Coyote) when she was only 5 years old. I've tried hard not to bad mouth her mom these last 4 years (not 100% successful) and she is mad as hell about her situation. Can't say I blame her, she's basically motherless.

One thing I learned on here and in Al-Anon is to be straight up with my daughter about what is going on in her life. The consensus among ACoA's seems to be that all the lying and cover up that often goes along with the alcoholism, ultimately was far more crazy making, than the alcoholic parents nonsense.

Little kids KNOW something is really wrong, even if they don't quite get it yet, and if the sober parent tries to shield them by hiding what's really going on, by basically telling them that what they are seeing, and hearing, and feeling isn't really happening, then it is far more damaging.

I've told LMC the truth from the very beginning, that her mom has alcoholism, and is sick and can't live with us any more. Granted it's stuff that no little kid should have to deal with, but I have no control over that.

Is my kid damaged by all this? You bet she is, it's a life altering situation to be a little girl raised by her 58 yo dad, and for all practical purposes be motherless. But I can't change any of that, but I can do damage control, in the form of letting her know that what she sees and feels is REAL.

BTW, I did a terrible disservice to my daughter the first 4 years of her life when I spent all my time and energy trying to "fix" her mom. She was basically ignored by both her parents.

At some point it finally dawned on me that I was effing up big time, by spending all my time trying to save a grown alcoholic woman who didn't want saving, at the expense of my helpless child. Once I switched gears and began protecting my child, as you are, my path became more clear.

BTW, I will repeat what others have said, take care of YOU first, other wise you'll be of little use to your boys.

You're a good Dad.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I hope that I can follow through with what you have done (minus the 58 years old thing, I don't want to be that old anytime soon, I plan on being a grandparent by that point.

I did have a break for the last few hours while the kids were with some friends of mine (the good friends, not the bad ones). I have a smile on my face right now. Been a while since I did that. These two boys are a handful. My hobby should be fun wihtout the wife as well. We are avid rock crawlers. I have two of the rarest Isuzus ever made, and we always take the boys camping/crawling with us. They have a blast. Nothing like driving a truck up a rock wall to get your heart beating fast. Had to mention this, it makes feel better so HA!

Darn, I tried to post a pic, but I am on forum probation, no links for the first seven days...
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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Glad I gave you a laugh

Tx
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
I see your point, but still disagree. The doctors will very rarely be good, for as long as the sums of money involved are so ridiculous. Money corrupts all. Telling me to not trust my doctor and decide for myself is the right decision? I am supposed to argue with 8 years of schooling and so on. I doubt that.
IMO, I don't see it as not trusting the doctor; I see it as making an informed decision about my health (or my son's or XAH's - when he was a husband - not that he ever went to the doctor or dentist. He 'sucked it up' and dealt with whatever until it nearly knocked him off his a--, example one entire side of his face swelled up to like double its usual size because of a bad tooth and he couldn't open his mouth to eat, his solution: drink more, that he could do... But I'm off topic.) Maybe look at it this way: Do you trust just any one to work on your vehicles? Or do you go to a mechanic, tell him what's going on with the car and ask what needs to be done? If you're saying that the brakes aren't working and he tells you that the AC needs to be fixed, do you believe him? Or go find a different mechanic?

I know finding a good doctor, one that you trust and one who has the same attitude towards health as you is hard. And it will be that much harder by having to relocate often. And finding one for your AW that she will actually see could be even harder....

Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
I have already admitted that I am partially to blame for her problems. A husband and wife are a team, you succeed as a team, you fail as a team. There are no sides to pick within the marriage. M wife does not see this yet, but one day I hope she will.
Just want to say, it takes the whole team working together to succeed. Have you ever tried to run a 3-legged race with some one who flat out refuses to run? It's darn near impossible. It's up to your AW to decide if she's willing to do the work. I truly don't think any one is telling you to cut it and run, just if she's not ready to face it, she's not.

Marlin, you are not to blame for her addicition. How A's deal with their issues is how they deal with their issues. Nothing you did or did not do made her start abusing alcohol or pills or ... anything.

Back on topic for the advice I need:
My 4 year old thought momma was coming home today. My oldest knows his days of the week, and asked me today if she was coming. I had to choke back tears and tell him no. Ryland, the youngest, immediately flipped out. He wants his mommy. How do I tell him that she isn't coming. I can't lie to him, but he doesn't understand. My 5 year old, Roston, he gets it as much as a 5 year old can get it. He didn't shed a tear. I don't know whats worse, that he wasn't upset, or that the 4 year old is torn by all of this.
With DS, who was 3 when I left XAH, and is now 6, I simply told him that Daddy was sick and needs to get better. Kids don't process stuff like adults do. They don't have the words, they don't know to verbalize that they're sad or mad. They can still feel it though. Just showering them with love and letting them know it's OK to be sad/mad/confused about momma being sick, helps them so much. Answer any questions that they may ask as truthfully as you can in an age appropriate manner. And let them get their emotions out.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:12 PM
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I hope that I can follow through with what you have done (minus the 58 years old thing, I don't want to be that old anytime soon, I plan on being a grandparent by that point.

Ha, no kidding, at 49 when she was born, I was a few decades behind the rest of the herd.

I've quit drinking, quit smoking, eat healthy, pump iron, (stronger now than in my 20's) take vitamins and supplements and monitor my blood pressure constantly. It's naturally low, and our standing joke, each time I measure it at the pharmacy is, "I'm gonna be dancing at your wedding".

That's my main goal in life, to live to a healthy, ripe old age, and continue to attempt to "make all this up to her" somehow.

BTW, if your sense of humor is still intact after all this, I'm not going to worry about you. Tons of healing in laughter, it's part of our self-care routine to rent "funny" movies every weekend, if nothing else is happening.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:59 PM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by coyote21 View Post
BTW, if your sense of humor is still intact after all this, I'm not going to worry about you. Tons of healing in laughter, it's part of our self-care routine to rent "funny" movies every weekend, if nothing else is happening.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Well, the Navy is a unique environment. You have to think, imagine leaving your family for months at a time, living on a steel platform, that bobs around in the ocean. Mail comes once a week at best. You live with (on a carrier anyway) 4000 sweaty stinky guys and several hundred stinky girls.

It takes an amazing sense of humor, and ability to detach oneself from what happens around you. That is the whole problem with the recent CO getting in trouble for the videos. Those vids were 'G' rated compared to the normal daily conversations on a deployment. Nothing is sacred. Nothing is offensive after about...oh, say,.....the third day into the underway. We are a very strange group to say the least. It isn't for everyone, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I will give it up for my little ones. It is not a single parent friendly form of employment.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:09 PM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MarlinVX View Post
I know in VA, the man has to leave.
Not in my VA. Twice I stayed.

You strike me as bound and determined to stay stuck in your situation. What's up with that? You're getting some really good advice from some heavy hitters here. Lots of great advice and answers are right here in this thread.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:12 PM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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Good luck Marlin!
Another dad here going through a similar deal.
Take care of yourself and your kids first!
Sounds like you have your head screwed on straight…good!
Best to you and your family.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki5711 View Post
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. We all know very well there's good doctors, there's bad doctors and it's up to US to ASK for information and decide if we're going to take the recommendation from the doctor or not. Whatever happened to "second opinion"? If you don't feel trustworthy to one doctor, why not go to a different one?

I have always asked questions about medications I was prescribed. Even going through battling two cancers and going through chemo, I don't just do everything suggested. When I find out the side effects of the medication I feel "I'll take my chances" without them because of the horroble side effects.

At some point we have to be grown ups and be responsible what we put in our mouth. You can't just say that you trust someone just because they're a doctor. Do you trust all Lawyers are the same?

I chose the hospital that would do surgery on me, not the doctor that initially diagnosed me with the cancer. I went where I felt would be best for me.

Your wife is not a baby. She may be addicted and will need time to recover, but don't try to order her around so much. She'll resent you even more.
I can't agree to that because my own mother, age 87, believed in authority figures all her life, and struggled valiantly with meds prescribed and the old way of thinking about women and many of their troubles. "prescibe a tranqilizer and she'll be fine " NOT" !
Sadly my brothers and I always blamed Mom for being a complainer and going from one doctor to another looking for help and or a diagnosis. It was cruel of us. She needed help and we denied her. Now, at age 67, I am dealing with several of her medical symptoms myself and fighting the prescription way of coping. I have never paid much attention to so called authority figures and prefer to decide for myself.. So.... my idea now is... be very, very careful, because when you get there yourself then you might understand.

Last edited by CSHNow; 02-01-2011 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Typos
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:07 PM
  # 78 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
Not in my VA. Twice I stayed.

You strike me as bound and determined to stay stuck in your situation. What's up with that? You're getting some really good advice from some heavy hitters here. Lots of great advice and answers are right here in this thread.
We had guys when I was stationed in VA that tried to kick their wives out, state said no, you have to go.
Such is life. Maybe laws and rules have changed, or vary by county?

As for the great advice...noted. I already said, I take into consideration everything.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:17 PM
  # 79 (permalink)  
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Okay people, there's enough anger out there in the world already. Kindly leave it out there and don't bring it in here.

Go breathe some air, walk around the block, do some yoga, call your sponsor. Whatever it takes to chill out. SoberRecovery is about _supporting_ each other, not about lashing out at the world.

In order to assist folks in taking a break for a couple of days I am closing this thread.

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