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I am confused about some behavior of alcoholics....

Old 01-19-2011, 01:33 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Abuse is abuse, no matter how you slice it, whether there's alcohol involved or not- it's the same. And trying to rationalize or figure out someone's drunken behavior is a dead end.
Drunks always have their finger pointed in the opposite direction. It can be the other person in the room, to the clerk at the grocery store, to the mail man; someone else other than them is really messed up and at fault for everything.

I would get therapy and/or read books on healing from childhood abuse as quickly as possible. And I highly recommend reading alot of ACOA literature, there are a lot of characteristics and self-defeating lifestyle patterns that ACOA's inherit that aren't obvious.
One book I recommend is called 'Becoming Your Own Parent' by Dennis Wholley.
I cried, I mean *bawled*, when I first read it and it opened up a lot of doors and a new sense of self for me.

I hope you are able to realize soon that you are not at fault and you don't have to carry the guilt and the shame for one second longer.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:44 AM
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Oh yes, Becoming Your Own Parent by Dennis Wholey. Fantastic Book.
I tried finding an ACOA meeting nearby but no luck.
I did order the Big Red Book, and will do the steps as the daughter of an alcoholic.
Look on the internet (or here, there is plenty here) for articles on detachment.
Do not worry about letting her get away with anything, I was furious with my parents for doing such a crappy job.
It ate at me. I had to let it go.
Actually, I was exactly your age! I stopped drinking at 36, and these feelings did not come up for awhile, I was enjoying being sober.

It has never been, nor will it ever be your fault.
Can you stay away from her? Try to get some peace in your life?

Beth
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:53 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Abuse is abuse, no matter how you slice it, whether there's alcohol involved or not- it's the same. And trying to rationalize or figure out someone's drunken behavior is a dead end.
Drunks always have their finger pointed in the opposite direction. It can be the other person in the room, to the clerk at the grocery store, to the mail man; someone else other than them is really messed up and at fault for everything.
Ah, yes, this is her. Okay, that makes sense, it is totally her blaming someone or thinking someone is not good enough for no reason. I just wondered if it is the disease that makes her think everyone is a piece of ****? or is that actually her own personality.

I would get therapy and/or read books on healing from childhood abuse as quickly as possible. And I highly recommend reading alot of ACOA literature, there are a lot of characteristics and self-defeating lifestyle patterns that ACOA's inherit that aren't obvious.
I just started alanon, (and have done years of therapy to help improve some of my inability to get though life due to one nasty jackass), but had to stop therapy for lack of insurance, but maybe i should go to my local hospital and see if they'll let me do a sliding scale fee to get mental health. It's quite an effort to go through the process of getting low cost help there though.

One book I recommend is called 'Becoming Your Own Parent' by Dennis Wholley. I cried, I mean *bawled*, when I first read it and it opened up a lot of doors and a new sense of self for me.
i'll look into that one. I ordered a handful of acoa books a few days ago, i can't wait for them to get here. : )

I hope you are able to realize soon that you are not at fault and you don't have to carry the guilt and the shame for one second longer.
Fortunately i totally know it wasn't my fault. The woman was 100% freak. what a nasty lady. I'm just finding it hard understand the "disease" not knowing what is part of the disease and what part is just being a mean jerk. Although, maybe those who are nasty arrogant mean jerks are more likely to think they're too good to get help, and i suspect she also had 4 children just to be an a--hole because honestly, i have never met anyone with 4 kids from 4 different fathers who had no money. It's a self-centered thing to do, so i guess she is just naturally a self-centered ahole who is also and alcoholic.

*sigh* the world would be such a better place if these people would just go away, aka, drop dead. It's too bad alcoholics don't die faster, it would be so much easier on people, and the medical system. Overall, they are just too damn costly.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brokenheartfool View Post
I don't believe alcoholism is necessarily the reason for being a mean person. My father was a true tyrant, from yelling to beatings. He didn't drink. But he was raised in a mean home with a father just like him. Often this type of abuse is a cycle.

I was married to an alcoholic who was extremely sweet, thoughtful, and kind. He was gentle, and I don't believe he ever raised his voice even once. He also drank himself drunk nearly every night. He was a sad drunk, but a very stubborn one.

Look to dysfunction in your mother's home growing up, how her parents berated her. There probably lies your answer. The alcohol probably made it worse.
I agree completely with you. Alcohol isn't the reason that people are mean, there's always other deeper issues at hand that are the root of someone's meanness or problems. Growing up in a dysfunctional environment is always a red flag t someone's attitudes and character. My parents got divorced when i was about 7yo. When my parents got divorced I spent a lot of time moving around with my mom. I went to 5 different elementary schools while I was living with her and 1 junior high. I never really had a chance to establish any roots or make some real friends one could say. I feel that's the reason I've always felt like I didn't fit in. Probably part of the reason I grew up with such low self esteem and little confidence. I was always shy because I felt that i wouldn't be accepted By the time I was 13yo I wanted to go live with my father so that I could be around my friends who i grew up with. Not to mention that I was already smoking pot by that age and I knew I would have more freedom living with him. Both of my parents are alcoholics. My mother was the at home type of drinker and my father was the type that went out to bars. Hence living with him gave me more freedom. Also my mothers drinking seemed much worse than that of my fathers and I couldn't stand being around it.

Like I mentioned I was smoking pot by the time I was 13, by the time I was 14 I was also drunking and experimenting with other drugs. From 1st grade on up to 7th grade I was always an honor roll student. When I moved back to my fathers in the 8th grade my grades gradually declined. The second semester of 8th grade my gpa was a 0.5. Before I always averaged at least a 3.5. In my fathers home there was I would say no love, communication or affection. I resorted to filling the void I felt inside with boozing and using. In high school I rarely showed up for class, I would rather to out and join the cut party. I started selling weed but it was to competitive as the guys who I hung out with were also selling weed. So I started selling coke instead, plus it yielded a greater profit. I got kicked out of high school when I was 17 and started going to continuation high school. Shortly after my older sister passed away. I got kicked out of continuation when I was 18 for possession of cocaine. I was lucky they didn't get for sales because the campus security officer knew I was selling but could never prove it. He was searching me 3 times a week but never found anytging on me.

My attitude later on in life was probably based off of my childhood and adolescent years. I grew up in a dysfunctional environment and always ran from my problems as opposed to facing them. Alcohol and drugs didn't make me mean and cruel. I did that to my self by always fewling sorry for myself. I blamed my issues on God, turned my back on him when my sister died and felt that he had it out for me and was punishing me for being a bad person. I didnt learn to love myself or god until i got into AA. I always blamed my behavior and issues on my drinking and using and blamed my drinking and using on god for giving me a bad life. In reality my life wasn't bad, bad things happen to people and thats just a part of life. I just had to learn how to face life and all of its hardahips without taking a drink or lighting up a joint. I'm always going to encounter things in my life that I may not like, but now I'm equipped with the knowledge that I don't have to drink or use because of them.

So yes i agree. Growing up in a dysfunctional environment can cause us to have bad attitudes and be mean. For me I chose to drink and use to escape the things i didnt like about life, my dysfunctional younger years was always something i wanted to run and hide from, something I wanted to forget.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:18 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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pennywistle;2836121]Abuse is abuse, no matter how you slice it, whether there's alcohol involved or not- it's the same. And trying to rationalize or figure out someone's drunken behavior is a dead end.
Drunks always have their finger pointed in the opposite direction. It can be the other person in the room, to the clerk at the grocery store, to the mail man; someone else other than them is really messed up and at fault for everything.
That's true! Although I wasn't a mean drunk, I was more of "need to listen to loud music" drunk, as things progressed and it got worse, I even got mad at the check out lady at Publix grocery store.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:11 PM
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Displacement and because they can...

This falls into the, "trying to understand alcohlic thinking" bucket for me and is therefore impossible. They are not normal, and they are not in a right mind. When it's time to lash out at others because they don't want to lash out at themselves or the real cause of their anger or frustration they displace onto those they love, and those who will (or have to) accept it.

Unfortunatly, that's usually their spouses and children.

It's not your fault, you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. It simply is what it is.

ACOA or Al-Anon meetings will help you work through these issues. It's helped me immensly because I spent my childhood being criticized by a parachute parent (my father). I say parachute because he was almost never there even when my folks were married, but would parachute in to tell my why I was a piece of ****, not doing things right or well enough, or why I wasn't worthy of one thing or another. My mother did her best to counteract it with love and kindness, but the damage was still done. The kicker? My dad was stone cold sober the whole time and has remained so to this day, more than 40 years later. Just a natural ******* I guess.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:43 PM
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Go read this article. It really helped me to understand what was happening to my alcoholic husband. He was acting and talking crazy because he's been drinking so long that he was crazy.

The person I married and raised my children with is GONE. There's this shell of a person walking around my house. He looks sorta like my husband, he sounds like him but he's an alien.

The Alcoholic Personality - Page 1

Also you might want to look up things like "wet brain" and the physical
effects of alcohol.

I'm sure your Alanon meetings will also help you to understand what's going on.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Verbena View Post
Go read this article. It really helped me to understand what was happening to my alcoholic husband. He was acting and talking crazy because he's been drinking so long that he was crazy.

The person I married and raised my children with is GONE. There's this shell of a person walking around my house. He looks sorta like my husband, he sounds like him but he's an alien.

allpositiveoptions. com/TheAlcoholicPersonality. htm The Alcoholic Personality - Page 1

Also you might want to look up things like "wet brain" and the physical
effects of alcohol.

I'm sure your Alanon meetings will also help you to understand what's going on.
Oh man, this is so her:

The Alcoholic And Grandiosity

The alcoholic is a classic case of “an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.” . lol.

basically 'i'm great and you're a pos' is her m.o. through and through. Damn these people are weird.

And she has many of the personality traits in that article, thanks. I could never tell if she was schizo, or BPD, or just a freak as well as being an alchie, but i guess many of her behaviors are just alchie. Man, alcoholics are really grotesque *shudder*. Big thanks for that link.

And i have also or used to have but now they are improving, many of those as well. I used to be concerned about the world, instead of myself, i am perfectionist, i used to lie, i used to think nothing was my fault and it was just everyone around me...etc.

i still have a LOT of work to do, but being raised like that, i didn't know much different, coupled with frustration, i took on a lot of those traits. After i went through some training group, i can't remember what it's called, it really helped. Something like IBFD or something, whatever BPD's take to help improve life.

Actually, that article made me feel better, it's good to know she's not just an evil maniac. I don't know how long it will last, but i just took a big sigh of relief. ! That was wild.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:44 PM
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I read a great book about alcoholism recently:
"Understanding the Alcoholic's Mind: The Nature of Craving and How to Control it", by Arnold M. Ludwig, MD. The first half was about the alcoholic and the behaviors we all talk about on this forum that are difficult to understand. The second half is geared more toward the user than the family/friends of the user, but still an interesting read.

I, too, am fascinated (at a distance) by the personalities and behaviors of alcoholics. I am amazed at how similar they all are and behave. Not unique little snowflakes that they would have us believe, after all!
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