coyote21

So LMC's been home from her 2 week visitation for 2 weeks now. The usual transition period of her missing her gmom was nonexistent, probably because I was prepared for a change. Ha.

Any way, she is in big trouble at school, has to be interviewed by the principal over making a classmate cry last Thursday (Friday was no school). Teacher called me at home after hours and everything. The other child claimed LMC kicked her in the stomach, LMC is adamant that it never happened, other kids interviewed and no eye witnesses.

So IDK, LMC HAS hit/kicked kids in the past, so even if she is telling the truth, her past will influence her consequences, oh well, nothing I can do about that.

I'm gonna stay out of it, kind of her actions/her consequences. I trust the school to be just, fair, and compassionate. I told her I loved her and she'd get through this just fine, and try to learn something.

What I need input on is this, she routinely acts out after a visit to moms/gmoms. I don't quite know what to think about it. I'm sure she is sad/mad about her situation. But is she acting out because she doesn't want to come home (codie, I know) where does the responsibility lie?

Also, when she first got home this time, she talked animatedly to her mom via phone at first, then after a week or so, she refuses to talk or text, and claims to be "annoyed" because the mom is relentless, ie. bugs her too much. LMC's words, she calls ALL the time.

I try my best to remain "neutral" towards mom, but she is forever blaming me for her strained relationship with LMC. I say that's NOT my responsibility.

Help/thoughts?

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

tjp613

Coyote, I can't help with the incident at school except to say that I'd probably handle it much the same way you are.

My 17 yo daughter (we'll call her TJPjr) has had a very strained relationship with her A-dad ever since he chose alcohol over her. He's in denial and instead blames me for their strained relationship. It's a lot more convenient than quitting drinking, as you know.

My daughter is now in intense therapy for her issues. They are many.

Her dad doesn't 'pester' her... instead he has chosen to sit in the corner and lick his wounds, which causes her to feel 'guilty' for rejecting him. She has complained in the past that when they got together for a rare visit, that he is constantly touching her, hugging, stroking her hair, etc. and that it bugs the cr*p out of her.

I think there's a big conflict going on with her... "He's my dad and I'm supposed to love him. But I don't feel that. I know he loves me and I do feel sorry for him, but I hate what he's done. Until I'm mature enough to accept his weakness, I will continue to be angry and hurt." If TJPjr were to give one inch, he'd be all over her with calls and texts, too, I'm sure, and i know that she would say the same as LMC..."he's so annoying!"

The bottom line is that they don't want the same things. The parent wants closeness and the kid wants distance. The parent refuses to do what they know is necessary to truly heal the relationship and the kid is pissed.

TJPjr's counselors do NOT recommend pushing them together or trying to force any kind of reconciliation or even 'family counseling' because he refuses to address the core issue. So the work-around is to work on her acceptance and relieve her feelings of guilt.

So maybe it is best to continue to validate LMC's feelings, maybe even help her put them into words ..? "Yes, it must be uncomfortable for you to have so many calls from her." "I think I would have the same frustration about how to handle her phone calls." "I can understand why you feel so annoyed." She needs to know that her feelings are valid and that she's not "wrong" for feeling them.

I dunno... I hope that helps in some way. (((Hugs)))

Thumper

I was told (by the counselor) that the transition itself will lead to the kids being irritable before and after a switch to the other house. It just is part of the transition and doesn't mean they don't want to go, or come back. It just is. Having routine's before leaving and after returning is helpful.

When my 8yo was having some issues in school the school counselor was helpful.

Not sure about the phone calls. I've been thinking it is just part of how they are processing things. My kids can be like that too and one of the 4yo's has refused to talk on the phone since xah moved and no longer see's him in person. The phone calls are sporadic and infrequent which doesn't help (although to many would be hard too). I'm guessing it is just their way of processing and handling the situation. It is hard to know what the 4yo thinks. The older boys can sometimes get agitated after a conversation - I think depending on how much they miss him and how the conversation went. They either get uncomfortable and worried over xah's anxiety and sadness on the phone - or he promises them things they no longer believe and they don't like that either. Maybe schedule the calls? That doesn't work for us but it would be nice.


I'm looking forward to the other responses.

barb dwyer

It may help to talk to the counselor.
It'd bring the school authorities in
on what's going on that might be causing the violence.
Something they didn't know...

I don't know that it'd help
other than to give the school a heads up
about something you suspect might be going on.

I've seen that go both ways.
I've seen teachers go to greater lengths to help'
and I've seen others 'label' a kid
instead of doing anything to help.

Sometimes we just have to sit back and watch
while they learn their actions have consequences.

Thumper

Thank you for posting because I think this is a little bit of where my older boys are headed. Xah is in rehab right now. If it sticks and he does follow through with being a good parent it will be such a gift.

coyote21

Thanks, yes that's all I know to do, tell her I understand her feelings.

Now I gotta call mom because her feathers are ruffled because LMC didn't respond to a couple of texts over the weekend, then was short on the phone last night.

She'll want to know why LMC is mad......well goddamn, why in the hell do YOU think she's mad? You know? Seems obvious to me. I think I'll just tell her I have no idea, won't make any difference what I say any way.

I believe I need to stay out of their relationship, as hard as that is.

Barb, the school knows all about LMC's situation, she attends weekly group therapy with the school counselor, and she is great. I'll probably schedule a meeting with her later in the week.

I feel kinda sorry for LMC though, having this hanging over her head on a 4 day weekend, but that's part of her consequences as well.

Man this family alcoholism sure effs up little kids lives.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

lillamy

That's what I've heard, too. One of the counselors we've collected said many of her joint-custody parents refer to the first 24 hours after the kids come back as "Hell Day":...

How old is LMC?

I'm looking for parallels with my kids. I have one who's gotten in trouble in school a lot. I've told her teachers that they have to view her as Iraq. You know, a country that got out from under years of oppression, and now is internally divided with warring factions fighting for power. That's how I view it. There are days when the militant angries take over the power, and then you just have to support the peaceful powers that are in these kids somewhere.

I think you handled things perfectly. I generally let school handle stuff that happens at school, unless the kids bring it up at home and want to talk about it. And you let LMC know that you love her, and that getting in trouble at school isn't going to get her any extra attention, bad or good, at home.

lillamy

Coyote... I have one kid who refuses to have any contact with RAXH. He even stopped referring to him as "Dad" and now talks about him by his first name. RAXH keeps trying to insert me in the middle of their relationship. I've told him, "you know his e-mail address, you know his phone number, if you want to ask him why he doesn't want anything to do with you, you can." -- and just leave it at that. Of course, RAXH doesn't want to do that. Because he doesn't really want to know. He just wants me to fix the relationship.

I think you are absolutely right. Get out from the middle. Let the ex get her panties all in a wad. Let LMC know you're OK with whatever level of contact she wants to have with her mother.

And about the feeling that we have to love our parents?

We choose our friends and partners. We are obligated to care for the children we've brought into the world. We have no obligation to love our parents if they behave like utter ohthat'srightcan'tusethatkindoflanguagehere... None. RAXH struggled with hating his folks and feeling guilty about it. Now he has a son who is navigating the same territory. I tell him, "people have to earn your appreciation. Nobody gets a free ride. You treat people well until they treat you badly, then you draw the boundary for when you drop them out of your life. Doesn't matter what relationship you started out with, you never have an obligation to love someone."

catlovermi

My first impression is she is having difficulties modulating her modes, when she is having to transition, and then adapt to, two very different sets of culture/circumstances.

This is very stressful, and I think she may be relieving her stress when she has a bigger mode change (longer in one mode so she adapts further into that mode, then has to return to the other mode) by her acting out.

Kids often have these sorts of stresses come out in acting out in sort of random/aggressive ways, because they don't have the tools/maturity to make more thought out transitions.

Sort of like a toddler will take out frustration by stomping the baby... they don't have the skills in place to communicate that they are frustrated, having trouble with something, and have a particular need that is getting unmet.

Some help with providing her more "steps" to her transitions, and more wiggle room in them seems a place to explore, in theory.

CLMI

coyote21

LMC is 9, and usually hell day just consists of her being sad and whining around a little over missing her gmom. This time, I was prepared with activities to keep her busy the first day, and that worked well.

But looking back, there is usually some kind of "trouble" after a visit. Usually some kind of violence, which the school is pretty "zero tolerance" over. I thought she'd learned her lesson when she punched a kid the 2nd day of 3rd grade last year. Sigh.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

coyote21

Thanks CLMI, can you expand on this a little?

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Thumper

She'll learn to stop the physical acting out when she learns a better replacement. When she finds a way to deal with the emotions that are fueling it will be easier - and maturity sure helps too.

Maybe the counselor could address that specifically?

Jazzman

I learned first hand that children in the foster care system want desperately to be reunited with their natural parents, even if those parents are terribly abusive. I learned first hand that children of alcoholics miss their absent parents presence even if it was an unhealthy one. I learned first hand that children of alcoholics suffer deep emotional wounds because of a parent who's priorities are way out of whack.

But I'll never learn how it is that after seeing first hand the pain one can cause their own child... why they do nothing to stop it.

Hats off to ya my friend, I think you're doing a great job with LMC.

wicked

Keep talking and keep loving her. She knows the deal, but is having trouble with anger.
My daughter, lets call her wickedjr, (teehee) was severely angry after a visit with dad.
Years later, she told me dad had let her brother (maybe 10 at the time) drive the truck down to the amusement park in Ohio (the name of it escapes me).
He also made sure he had a bag of weed around to share with the kids.
Isnt he thoughtful. ten years later and wickedjr is still adjusting to the fallout of that idiot going to Louisiana to avoid paying child support.
But, wickedjr, your mom wants me to go to jail! I cant come back there!

Keep loving her, keep watching her and keep listening.

BEth

Freedom1990

Young kids can't process through the emotions flying around in a dysfunctional environment like adults can.

You've got a household she visits that is full of denial, and all the other crappy emotions that no one wants to own up to, and those emotions are thrown at whoever picks them up. Remember how miserable it was when you were with the EXAW? Think of all those emotions that you had being thrown at LMC during her visitations.

She doesn't have the capacity to say, "You know, I'm sorry you're frustrated/angry/sad/insert yucky emotion of your choice, but that isn't my problem.

She's young and vulnerable to picking up those crappy emotions that aren't even hers to own. So she comes back home and has to get those emotions out somehow, even if it's negative behavior.

Does that make sense?

If you get a chance, get your hands on a copy of "Chalk Talks on Alcoholism" by Father Martin (I hope I got the title right). He does a wonderful job of describing how alcoholism affects the family.

I gave that to one of my oldest daughter's teachers when we first moved after I got out of rehab and she was acting out in school. The teacher said the book helped a lot.

Hugs, Coyote!

catlovermi

OK, so you do something like make a protocol for her transitions, at least the ones from THERE (mom's environment) to YOU (the ones the other direction you have no control over, although you can also design send off protocols to help get her ready). You ENGINEER the transition. For example, you might institute intermediate steps such as:

As soon as she is physically back to you, you have a defined activity that happens every time this transition happens. This has to be chosen to mesh with her needs and temperament. If she's a chatter who needs to debrief, them something like every time you have a meeting at McDonalds to talk through the transition block over ice cream sunday/coffee. If she's one who needs quiet/solitude to transition, then maybe you get her an MP3 player and help her choose a play list, and have her listen to a 30 minute play list of calming songs, alone in her room, every time, as soon as she gets home. If she needs a physical wind-down, then maybe you take a walk, or have a craft activity. The point is, you find something that you do EVERY time, for, say, 30-60 minutes - that first chunk of time coming back home.

This is now a CONSTANT, as it is now the same, everytime. It becomes a habit, a rhythm, etc. As such, it helps reduce stress. She doesn't have to guess what she will be doing, that first hour. She knows it will not be stressful. This BUYS TIME, for her to calm her nerves, doing whatever it is, this first hour. Next, you might choose another block of time activity, or perhaps she only needs one transitional block. But you ENGINEER a protocol that is defined, stress reducing, etc. They do these same things with little children who show what is called adjustment disorder. It helps define exactly how a transition will go, and helps reduce the stress and anxiety of a transition.

BTW, the LONGER she was in the OTHER envirnment, the LONGER the transition should be engineered, because she was deeper into that other sub-culture and has to come farther out, over a longer transition time, to re-normalize into your environment.

I hope you get the gist of my idea. Not sure I'm all that good at describing it.

Here's a great visual I just thought of. I had a roomie whose dad was a pilot, so the kids spent a lot of time at airports. Dad was a prankster. He used to instruct them to run as fast as they could ONTO an ONCOMING moving walkway, knowing that the transition, due to their running hard one way and then hitting the walkway surface moving the OTHER direction would make them trip and go sprawling. This is a visual of what it's like, for her, to move from one environment to a drastically different one. So, you slow her down, and don't just dump her from one to the other. You slow her down, and sync her as much as possible.


CLMI

wicked

yes, she was deep in that other subculture, like a deep sea diver. she needs to decompress slowly, and divers, have to have certain steps done exactly the same way every time.

Yes, this sucks big time. And LMC knows you are safe. Unfortunately, she is having a hard time decompressing and dealing with the different atmosphere.

(ya know I love my analogies. )


Beth

theuncertainty

Hugs, Coyote and LMC.

Hmmm. 9 yo, puts her right between my nephews and nieces in age.... Does LMC like to write or draw/paint? Because TC's suggestion of writing a letter and burning it comes to mind as a possibility. Maybe within the 1st couple days back, she could make it a ritual to take a piece of paper, some lovely bold pens/markers, and write away or draw every thing she's feeling.

You could tell her that what ever she says or draws would be completely private and she wouldn't need to show you or any one else if she didn't want to. So she can say or show just how PO'd at or hurt by her mom, just how unfair having to deal with all of this is, and there would be no guilt with having said it out loud... Then she can tear it up and throw it in the fire place (if you have one) or, IDK...

Or you could splurge and get her watercolor pencils that she could write everything out with and then take water to and blur it all together into an artpiece.... (I'm not entirely sure though that those would completely blur out....)

tjp613

Catlovermi that was a great post!! Thanks.

catlovermi

Yeah, she's getting the bends, trying to smash from one sub-culture to a drastically different one. And not just on a physical level - on an emotional level. In one place, her mother is separated from her due to her mother's trail of damage from alcoholism. But in the other place, this is her mother, whom she loves, because that's the mother she has. It's a tremendous emotional dissonance, to switch from one of these modes, to the other.

CLMI