Thumper

It wasn't to long ago that StarCat posted about a rehab counselor contacting her and I thought it was bizarre - I had never heard of such a thing. I just went back to re-read that thread.

Whaddya know. I just got a voice mail from a rehab counselor. Xah checked himself into rehab right after Christmas. I only know because his sister told me. I haven't heard from him since the day after Christmas (and he sounded bad so I'm glad he checked in).

Him and the counselor are working on a family assessment and would like my perspective on treatment planning and if there are any other issues in addition to the drinking that could be addressed. Any other behavioral goals for recovery. It would be a conference call (him, me, xah) for 20-30 minutes.

Ugh. The thought of it is causing me so much anxiety right now! I don't know what to say. We've been divorced almost a year. This is not about 'us'. What has been your experience with treatment planning meetings like this?

What I do not want to do is give a laundry list of what I think the man should work on. I'm kind of frustrated that I don't even have a list. You'd think I could rattle off a list without blinking. It makes me feel like I'm some nut that got divorced and doesn't even know why.

All I really want now is for him to be consistent with the kids, keep his word with them, and help them to feel safe and secure. Oh, and respect my boundaries without me constantly reinforcing them.

Maybe this is a sign that my recovery is not all that good? I feel like I'm doing OK but maybe that is only because I have eliminated him from my life? What do you all think on that front?

I know I just need to breath. I'll call him back tomorrow and I don't even have to do the conference call if I don't want to. I don't really mind doing it. I don't feel as if I might get entangled or anything, it is just causing me unexpected anxiety.

Any feedback?

tjp613

Then this is what you tell the counselor. A conference call is actually a good idea if you consider that you will have a "mediator" there to help you to be HEARD. But, if you don't wanna get enmeshed that way, then don't! Just call the counselor and have a chat with him/her. It's progress!

brokenheartfool

Are you concerned you will make your ex angry? or that the conversation will turn into a disagreement? or that you will be insulting him?

Think back to his worst. Write down the character flaws. Lying, etc. Be prepared with those thoughts written down.
I've never done what you are doing. But I assume the counselor isn't going to let it get into a shouting match or argument, won't allow him to speak over you or interrupt. I think I would approach it calmly (on the outside anyway).
I know it would be difficult for me to list my ex's flaws like that. Especially when it's been a year and the distance has helped you to get away from those very thoughts, and you'd rather not list his flaws anymore--what's the point, right?
But it's helping him and his counselor I suppose.
If you're really uncomfortable, say so, and cut it short. It's not a job interview, and even if it was, you could always walk out.

wicked

I think these are excellent behavioral goals Thumper.
Okay, maybe we could think of ways to be more specific.
I know my ex would find loopholes, but you will have a (hopefully) disinterested third party.
I look at this from another view, you do not have the ex on your mind all the time.
Why should you have a laundry list ready, you have been getting well and not obsessing over him. I say this is recovery.

It could be helpful to you and the kids if the counselor is a good one.

I would have anxiety too if there was a counselor and a conference call in the next few days. Yep, normal reaction to having this back in your life unexpectedly.

lillamy

First of all, I'm glad you know that you have zero obligation here. None. Whatsoever.

Well, in my mind, why should you? You divorced him. You're no longer part of his family. You've been divorced for a year. Bygones.

That's a good start. And I think you could definitely throw in there (if you don't have it in the divorce agreement) that you require him to be sober for at least 6 hours before seeing the kids. Or 8. Or 10. Or whatever.

I think eliminating him from your life shows detachment. And the fact that you don't really know what to say as far as what he can do. That means you've been focusing on yourself and your life. I think that's only good.

StarCat

You don't have to talk to the councilor at all, or your XAH at all, if you don't want to. That said, if you do want to say anything, I would call the councilor first and talk to him privately, then decide if you want to talk to your XAH on the conference call or not. It is okay not to want to talk to him, you have no obligation to do so.

I'd tell the councilor what you wrote in that little paragraph, and say that while the list was much longer when you were married, that's all that really matters to you at this stage. If he wants to talk about what led to the breakup of your marriage, and you want to share with him, go ahead - but that paragraph there is the only part that is important to you.

Experience from my ABF, if I give too big a list he'll just gloss over it. If I gave him a short one he had a better chance of sticking to it - mainly because he wanted to manipulate me into believing he was a nice guy, but I would get what I needed, at least for a while, so the motives didn't matter so much at the time.

(((HUGS)))

All this is optional. Don't do anything you're not comfortable doing.


This is still a raw subject for me at the moment, but I thought I'd share my (attempt at) objective thoughts, so "take what you like and leave the rest" applies extra right now.

Thumper

I was going to call the counselor back tomorrow - not him. I'm sure the counselor would lead the meeting, not xah. I'm not afraid of anger. We repress our anger, ha - sounds kind of comical but it is true, so that isn't going to be so much an issue. No shouting matches are likely.

Writing things down is very good. I will definitely do that. I'm afraid and I don't know why. My boundaries were so weak when we were married and he exploited me/used me not in an overt way but by trampling on my boundaries. He did not protect me (the internal me), ever. That sounds so pathetic when I know people that have come through so much. I was such a mess. I've been so set on only talking to him about day to day chit chat or the kids. I've refused to talk about anything else ever and that is how I have protected my boundaries. I do not want to even glimpse that again. This response is not rational or accurate. I really don't think anything bad would happen during that meeting. He's been there a couple weeks and I'm sure the counselor would ask for the meeting if he was worried about that.

I don't know why I'm feeling this fear and anxiety so strongly. It is such a powerful feeling right now. The call came earlier today - I didn't post right away - so it isn't that new.

I do not think this is manipulation. I think it is an honest attempt at getting a good treatment plan in place. If they want someone's input that knows him well over the last 18 years, I'm pretty much it. There isn't anyone else.

I'm going to try and let it go for the evening. I'll be back on later tonight.

Thanks.

theuncertainty

That is actually a pretty good list and they're big-ticket items, IMO. Hugs and I'm sorry you're feeling anxious about this. I don't have any experience with recovery counselors calling. I recently realized that maybe some one from XAH's (then just separated AH) in-patient program should have called me back in April and then realized who they probably did call..... *shrug*

Nope, I do not believe that at all. You seem aware of what aspect is causing you anxiety and are verbalizing it clearly, and are seeking assistance. That is big.

Thumper

Oh - quickly as I cross posted. Wanted to say thanks for other responses - I feel a little less crazy!!.

Wicked - I think it could be helpful too.

Lillamy - sobriety before being with kids is great. I'm adding that for sure because it is not in the divorce agreement and I'd feel better having said that now.

I will speak to the counselor in order to schedule the meeting and ask him what I should be prepared with/for. See what he says. I'm glad the actual meeting will include xah. We'll both know exactly what was said because we often hear different things.
Thanks!

theuncertainty

Man, I'm slow on typing! When I started framing my response only TJP had posted...

wicked

It does not sound pathetic. And even if you did count on someone who was not worthy of your trust, that happens sometimes.
It certainly has happened to me.
That was then, and this is now.
You are getting stronger everyday Thumper.


Beth

Verbena

Good list of what you need from him now. His personal issues are his issues and I'd let his therapist/counselor help him with those. That's what they get paid for. You are divorced.

This sounds like an opportunity for you to say what you want with civility and courtesy. It provides an opportunity for his counselor to hear your list and remind him of these things when he gets off track.

You might want to be specific about your boundaries. Examples: No calling the kids after 10:00 at night because they have school the next day. No picking up the kids from school without your prior knowledge. You'd like to keep your relationship limited to parenting the children. Again these are just examples of what I might want. Yours may be quite different.

fourmaggie

ok...I am still shocked...really i am, they call you?...or is it that the husband wants a re-action with this?...i dunno....it still would not be my issue..unless it involves the kids...my serenity would be out the DOOR very quickly....I mean i am glad the guy is getting help and all but...to pull the ex wife in....again...its crazy....

when i did my recovery and grief with my therapist/counselor: it was just that MINE....

sorry if i am venting or whatever...dunno, just does not seem right is all...

skippernlilg

I think I understand your anxiety. Here you've gotten so far in your own steps, in your own recovery, and a big part of that is detachment. I think it's good to express that to the counselor that you understand there really is a family dynamic that's affected here. You're living proof.

His path is his path. Where it concerns the children and your co-parenting arrangement is where your input would benefit Your Children. If you can put that into your mind a little, then you realize you're not necessarily contributing to 'his' recovery, but a better experience for your family.

That's where my mind would have to be, anyway, to respect my own boundaries, my own detachment.

Peace,

Skipper

newby1961

Good for you most people would say oh he's my ex its his problem not mine. All you can really do is be as honest as you can be and the rest will work itself out. Your ex is lucky to have someone in his corner I hope he gets that? Keep the Faith Judy M

Thumper

Hello all - feeling much calmer now. It is such a gift to have others that understand.

fourmaggie - I was shocked too. For one thing, when he was in rehab the first time we were still married and I was not called or included in any family plan/day or anything. Zero contact or input for me even though I asked him about it. I'm wondering now if he set it up that way or if it was just a difference in the programs. Doesn't really matter.

I don't think he's trying to get a reaction. I do wonder if he is still holding out hope that we could be together. The divorce was well underway before he accepted that I was really leaving him. We sat in the counselors office (again under the pretense of it being for the kids) and the divorce was underway and I said "I don't want to be married to you." to his face and in front of her and not five minutes later he was saying how lucky he was to have such a supportive wife blah blah blah. I don't know where his head is at now but I will have a pat answer ready if I feel clarification is needed.

I'm glad you all thought that my 'list' was OK/enough. I will flesh it out with some details in case they ask and just leave it at that. It is honest and I'm good with sharing in that way. It feels like something that could benefit us all moving forward. I'll answer direct questions if I can but will practice a line I can use to decline answering something if I want to.

Oh, and everyone send some positive vibes out if you can, that he successfully maintains his recovery. He's a rotten partner for me but he's a decent guy. He can be a kind, gentle, loving, fun, committed, involved father, and was at different times before the alcoholism totally consumed him. He and they both deserve those things again - for the rest of their days.

theuncertainty

Sending out wishes for strength for all your family, Thumper. May he find and hold onto his recovery.

Thumper

Quick update. I talked to the counselor and scheduled the call. The counselor was very nice, professional, not pushy. Him and I would do most the talking but xah would be there. I will be asked if there are other issues I view as needing to be addressed, what I would be looking for as signs of recovery, if there are strengths or skills I think he could draw on, and lastly if there are any supports I feel I need that he can assist me in finding.

I'm not sure if I'll have an answer for all that but will do what I'm comfortable with and not worry about it. I'm feeling much less anxious.

Xah has emailed me once and called to talk to the older boys once. I didn't talk on the phone. His email was just a few sentences. He wanted some pictures, he said the program is really good and it will work (OK whatever) and 'thanks for helping with treatment'. I think he just wanted to express appreciation for doing the conference call as the counselor probably told him there was a chance I wouldn't (we're divorced) but I have to admit that I was ticked off reading that. Don't assume I'm helping with your treatment buddy. Do not put me in your treatment business. Oh the games we play (meaning myself). I know it isn't a big deal and I'm not obsessing, just taking note of that initial reaction.

I'm trying to pay attention to all my feelings and think about them. One of my new favorite nuggets is 'feelings are not facts' so I'm working on remembering that just because I feel it (especially that initial reactionary feeling) doesn't make it a fact!

Thumper

It went OK. Xah didn't really say anything. The counselor seemed really good. He explained the program, which sounds excellent.

I did not feel like I explained myself very well. He asked how the alcoholism affected me and our relationship and I can't articulate or talk about that very well. I did get across my points about the relationship with the boys. He did some explaining to me why xah might behave the way he does with the visitation (not able to cope with the pain of no longer being in an intact family with them etc.) which I do understand/know but don't really care to hear I guess.

I just feel uneasy and sad and a little defective yet and I don't even know why. I can still feel guilty and confused about my perceptions or decisions after all this time - even though I know I'm clearly better off and happier now. I feel physically ill. I know it will pass. I'm glad I did it and glad it is over. He asked why I married him, the good qualities. One was trustworthy - I have this in my head yet I do not trust him. I trust nothing he says or does. Why would that pop in there? Maybe he was trustworthy when I first met him a billion years ago and maybe he wasn't. I don't even know. I don't know how I can subconsciously still be holding two opposing thoughts about the man.

stella27

You feel all unsettled because your serenity was threatened by having to deal with old marriage and relationship issues again. You thought that the divorce and your own grief had put that to bed. But here it comes again through your XH's own recovery work.
Yuck.

You did exactly what you were supposed to do. Keep enforcing those boundaries. Your relationship to him is as a co-parent and you can keep practicing putting him back in that category. I know it's hard. I hate when all this stuff from the bottom gets dredged up and affects your ability to be peaceful and put it behind you.