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Dying of Cirrhosis & Still Drinking

Old 12-31-2010, 06:17 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Oh Wpasierb. You are not obligated to stand by this man. You have done your share, more then your share. You do not have to live like this and neither does your daughter. You do not have to sacrifice yourself, your sanity, your peace, and the same for your daughter. He is where he is at by his own choice.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:22 PM
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Wpasierb, it's understandable how your 12 year old daughter feels, but you are the parent and sometimes we have to do things that are for the good of our children, even if they don't understand. It is not healthy for her to live with what is going on there. She might be upset at first, but you really should get her out of there. She deserves to live somewhere where she can have friends over and not fear her father will "start with her."

If he were just sick it would be one thing, but he is abusive and neither you nor your daughter deserve that.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:23 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wpasierb View Post
I wish he would just take an anxiety pill and go to sleep or drink himself to sleep. Something to make it stop!
If wishes were horses beggars would ride. (so my nan used to say)

Thankfully my nephew was 50 miles away when his dad died from cirrhosis and heart failure.
He was 12 and had chosen not to live with his dad the year before he died. He gone to visit other family on the day his dad died. I'm so glad he was 'out of the way' and didn't see all the messy, undignified, painful parts of is dads illness. He's messed up enough as it is without having all that as a reminder.

My nephew used to hide in his room too, fortunately he had a way out.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:38 PM
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I may be considered harsh with this, but to me, if he is drinking himself to death, or is voiding blood from every orifice that is his medical problem....one which he is doing all he can to ignore and pretend is not there.

What grabbed me, was you saying your INNOCENT, FRIGHTENED 12 year old daughter and her friend were hiding in her room, because he is a nasty, scary and mean mouthed drunk.

No, my dear....your daughter does not need, want or deserve, to be put in this situation, and she has been stuck in it by her father and to some extent, by you.

He could take control and care of his actions and medical problems, other than denying he is ill, and continuing to drink.....that is his choice.

You could allow him to do as he wishes, but also remove yourself and your daughter from being with him as he does his thing, either by him leaving or you doing so.

I do know how hard that is, as I did it myself.......but it could not be as hard or harmful as staying and causing more upset, pain and possible damage to your young girl.

I think she deserves to come first in priority with you, then yourself, and your AH, who has his own agenda, comes way after you two.

As I said, I may sound unfeeling and harsh, but I do feel much less for you AH than I do for your girl and you.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:46 PM
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>>>>When I read these horribly sad stories, I wonder if staying really helps the A anyway? Their primary relationship is with alcohol. That's their comfort, their "friend". <<<<<

THIS is the essence of the matter.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:14 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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wpasierb, my thoughts and prayers are with you, your daughter and your husband. You have received supportive posts here. I feel like the post from Hailee was particularly eye-awakening for your physical side, and the post from FormerDoormat post was very helpful in dealing with your emotional side. However, I believe a person is comprised of three sides......our physical side, our emotional side, and our spiritual side!

Your situation is complexed and consists of all three sides of yourself! One of the best websites I have found is A.A. Recovery - Why A.A. Is Spiritual
The following is an excerpt from this website on Spirituality.

One of the many terms for Spiritual Practice is "avodah", a word from hebrew. It is also a synonym for "work" or "discipline". Spirituality is a Discipline. When people say to me, "I'm a spiritual person," they often mean that they treasure some vague feeling of connection with God, nature, or humanity, that is most often divorced from any behavioral obligation.

The disembodied spirituality so often spoken about by those who do not practice any spiritual discipline rarely obligates them to anything, and often excuses the grossest behavior. We have witnessed this many times, in ourselves and in others.

Spirituality is not a feeling, nor is it vague. Spirituality is a conscious practice of living out the highest ethical ideals in the concreteness of our everyday life, and it is that continued practice that brings the awakening of our own spirit into a conscious contact with our Higher Power.

The Program of Alcoholics Anonymous (Al-Anon) is not a religion, it is a Spiritual Discipline. The conscious practice of the principles of the 12 Steps and their virtues of Honesty, Hope, Faith, Courage, Integrity, Willingness, Humility, Brotherly Love, Justice, Perseverance, Prayer and Meditation, and Service to One Another, in all our daily affairs is a Spiritual Discipline requiring rigorous honesty and perseverance, and a responsibility to our fellows, to our Higher Power, each as we understand or don't understand it, and to ourselves. The various 12 Step Programs are a mode of living out our daily lives Sober, one day at a time, under the rigor of a Spiritual Discipline, which may or may not be addressed by any particular religion to which a person adheres.

As I have stated before, prior to coming into A.A. I had had contact with religion, but had no spirituality or understanding of it. (I was a drunk and was very much undisciplined.) As a drunk I had attended many different churches with many different congregations, in hopes of getting something right, but it made no sense to me, I could not discipline myself. And of course, as a result of my lack of discipline, of trust, of understanding and of faith, it didn't work for me. There was no end of frustration and despair, because I could see it working for others, and had not the discipline to do what they did, so that it would work for me.

On coming to the spiritual program of Alcoholics Anonymous, my confusion was such that I finally asked one of my sponsors, a clever old man: "What is the difference between religion and spirituality?" He said: "Bob, let's put your particular concept of the creator aside for a moment, and compare the difference between religion and spirituality. The way I see it, religion is man made by man to suit the needs of man. Religion talks the talk, and the Discipline of Spirituality walks the walk. In spirituality we honor the existence of all creation including ourself. As we practice the Spiritual Discipline of the 12 principles in all our affairs, we are walking the talk..."

Now that makes sense to me, now I can walk the talk of my religion (or the lack of it) by practicing the 12 principles in all aspects of my life, and know that I am on the Spiritual Path, the Good Red Road of Life, that this day shall be one of Grace and Gratitude, that I may know peace and be content, Sober-minded and Fully Alive to the Sufficiency of God's Grace, and the Generosity of our Earth Mother.

The Discipline of Spirituality, The Daily Practice of the 12 Principles WORKS, It really does!!!

Love and Peace,
Phoenix

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Old 01-01-2011, 05:42 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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It seems to me that you have a choice to make: you cannot take care of both of your daughter and your husband in this circumstance. Also, are you modeling the behavior you would want her to have if she finds herself in this position 20 years from now? She is learning how to be a woman from watching you now.
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:05 PM
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Here's a couple of threads that might help

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ased-soon.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...alcoholic.html

Mike
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:24 PM
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Hi Hallie. My name is Barbara.. I just registered to these forums.

I read your post about cirrohis....I need to print that out. Someone dear to me has cirrohis from alcholism and I wish I could walk away. He already had liver/kidney failure 3 years ago and jaundice for 6 months. Now his urine is a tea color. And at times he still has a few beers here and there.

I joined this site because I see there are others in the same situation as myself. My husband is also alcholic. I've had medical problems and not able to work, otherwise I would leave the marriage and move back home.

Since you are a nurse do you know what a brownish color urine means? Also how long does one live with cirrohis.


I find the posts here encouraging.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:07 PM
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Hi Barbie

Just wanted to let you know that Tea/Dark Colored Urine is the excess bilirubin being excreted through the kidneys and out in the urine. Conjugated Bilirubin in the blood is actually dead red blood cells excreted by the already damaged liver that come to the surface of heavily perfused tissue (ie: the skin/eyes) to cause that yellow color (Jaundice). The tea colored urine is a sign of worsening liver damage in a patient already diagnosed with cirrhosis.

Your husband is throwing gasoline on a fire by continuing to ingest alcohol. You should know how horrible dying of cirrhosis is to witness.

Please take care of yourself, because you are powerless to stop this process from going forward. You can only save yourself.

Hailee
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:23 AM
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Wellcome to SR.
I will not write much as you have already been told so many wise things, I'll just tell you I understand how you feel. My STBXAH (soon to be ex alcoholic husband) is in the same condition as yours. I stood by him for years, thinking I'm his only hope for better, healtier life. In May he was admitted to hospital with cirrhosis, end stage, stayed alive against all the odds, stayed sober for few months and than started drinking again. You can imagine the effect this had on kids and me. Yet I stayed for awhile longer, until I understood he was making me go crazy literaly, I could see he was drinking but he was convincing me he was not, and I thought I was imagining things. I ended up seeing a shrink and was put on AD. We lived like that for few months, him getting more and more drunk every day, coming home wasted, his pants pooped, unable to walk, the lot. Than I discovered he has a girlfriend and that he cheated on me for years. Upon finding that out I was free of guilt, and finally able to say goodby to him. He moved out a month ago, and my life was never better. Kids seem happy too.
Still sometimes I worry about what will happen to him, will he die alone, but I know that is the choice he made, as hard as it is for me to accept it.
As FD said, for me too most important thing to realize was I did everything I could for him, and if I don't do something for myself and our kids he'll destroy us too. That is what made it possible for me to leave. I had to save our kids and myself. It wasn't easy, but it was better than the alternative. I found him a flat and I'm paying rent for it, I'm paying his medical insurance. Still I'd do anything for him that doesn't jeperdise my well being or the well being of our kids.
I speak to him on the phone, but I'm trying to do that as less as possible, as each day passes by I'm realizing more and more how much he has damaged me, and how easy it is for him to manipulate me and pull me back into the madness of his life.
I don't know how am I going to feel once he is gone. I know it will be hard, but it the same time I am confident I'll remember there is nothing I could have done about it.

We don't own anyone's life or death but our own. We don't owe anything to anyone but to ourselves. I believe we were all given this life to make the most of it. We are not put on this earth to nurse someone who doesn't want to live. As if we keep doing that, we keep losing ourselves and distancing ourselves from the only purpose we have in this life, which is IMO to be complete, healthy, good, grateful human beings. Life in misery is life wasted. And more than anything else, I believe I'm teaching my kids by example and it is my job to teach them how to take care of themselves and how to be happy.
None of it is easy but life's beauty comes in all way, shape and forms. Sometimes we can even see it through tromendous pain.
You can't save anyone but yourself.
I wish you well.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:15 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Thank you for ALL of the posts. I understand I need to remove myself and my daughter as much as I can, and although I don't want to think of my hsuband dying alone, I don't want to die with him. I feel like I am going crazy and I know I am probably as bad to live with in a different way than he is. I am working on getting us out and will post updates regularly.

Thanks!!!!!
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:26 AM
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@sesh: I've been wondering how you've been doing--thanks for providing the insightful update. I knew you had the strength to do what is right for your family. You're an inspiration.

spasierb: There is no doubt about it--seeing our loved ones die alone is heart-rending. That's what makes this disease so maddening, ugly, frustrating, and sad. Too many alcoholics choose that path. My mother kicked my Dad out when I was 12, thinking it would be a wake-up call. The wake-up call was for the survivors--alcoholics DO choose alcohol over their families every day. My Dad was one of them, and he dropped dead on the streets of the Bowery, talented, bright, creative, kind, sick and homeless at age 43.

My mother did the right thing, and I never, ever felt she had abandoned him. My dad never felt abandoned, either. At least that's what I gather from the letters he wrote to her from New York. He knew he had made his bed.

hugs to you.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:35 AM
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Maybe he is drinking out of fear? Maybe he can't cope with the truth of his situation, so he is drinking for oblivion.

Yes, it is terrible, but imagine what is going through his head. It sounds like he is drowning out the fear or his truth with booze to cope with his condition.

I am so sorry you are going through this.

Prayers for you.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:17 PM
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Hi Hallie,

Thank you for explaining what the tea-colored urine means. I had searched online but couldnt find anything other than dehydration. This is happening to my dear friend (my husband is another story).
My friend told me the urine was this dark because of dehydration so I said drink more water. But I realize after reading what you wrote, it is definitely the liver.

Im just wondering how long a person has to live after they've had kidney/liver failure, he nearly died a few years ago and jaundice (I was not in contact with him then), with ascities filling the abdominal cavity and now he has peripheral neuropathy.

I was just wondering how long someone can live like this with the urine that color and if that means its end stage. I just want to prepare myself..as he and his family were very close to me years ago.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:25 PM
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I do think some of his drinking is done out of fear. I would be scared as hell if I was in his position. I think I would want to do whatever I could to live as long as I could though. I also think he is being like a rebellious teenager and thinking he's getting something over on everybody. He is losing his mind more daily, and lives in another world most of the time. He has an appointment with his primary care doctor tomorrow and I usually go with him, but this time he's on his own. I know he won't be honest and I can't stand to be around him anymore than I have to be.

Thanks for all of the kind words and postings.
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