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Recognizing Manipulation

Old 12-29-2010, 03:35 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kelly1028 View Post
So HE is telling you the doctor has concluded he isn't an alcoholic. Not the words of the actual doctor, right? I assume if they thought there wasn't a problem, they would have released him.

Good luck with the upcoming weeks!
He claims that the doctor was going to release him today, and he said that for my sake he insisted that he wanted to stay in the program for the full duration, so they checked the insurance and he'll be out on January 15th.

Sometime tomorrow, when I cool down a bit over this whole affair today, I am going to have a good laugh about that one.




And my plan for when he gets out is to not let him back into the apartment for any reason. He's already mapping out his best methods to get in, "Look, honey, I'm sacrificing that beautiful environment to live in this spartan depressing one so that you feel better about our relationship. How about when I get out you pick me up in my truck, and we'll go celebrate somewhere? Also, you changed the locks, so you owe me a deadbolt key."

He'll be living at his mother's. Even his "my son can do no wrong" mother has already taken that for granted and has been asking me to stop by and replace the mouthwash with a non-alcoholic variety. Aside from that, I don't know yet, but I have time to work that out.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:37 PM
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Reading the quacks he's coming out with tells me his thoughts are still "pie in the sky" and not near reality......rehab or not, something is NOT getting thru.

As for his reminding you to iron his shirts.....WELL.

I figure he could iron them himself while he is still "up in the air".



Frankly I could use the steam iron to IMPRESS on him, that if he wears it, he irons it.



I would go to his Rehab, along with some of his family members, and let him see that his game plan to manipulate his way out of trouble, is a fizzer.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Yep, I thought so too, but it might be too easy to diagnose on the forum. beth
Well Wicked I am not a Dr., but I am so exteremely well educated, intelligent, and superior that I feel comfortable diagnosing others..btw..when are u gonna be done ironing my freakin shirts?
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:11 PM
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You have no idea how helpful this is to me. Because I divorced one of those different unique alcoholics, too. So he's running your life from in there, huh? Where he really doesn't need to be but he probably stays to show you how much he loves you or something?

Yeah, they're really all unique and not at all like each other. And so are we...
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:28 PM
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Regarding being manipulative when he stops drinking, here's something I was told in early sobriety: if you take the alcohol away from a drunken horse thief you still have a horse thief.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:40 PM
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but I am so exteremely well educated, intelligent, and superior that I feel comfortable diagnosing others..btw..when are u gonna be done ironing my freakin shirts?
what about the perfect cake? hmmm, a torte i think, chocolate with raspberries.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:42 PM
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if you take the alcohol away from a drunken horse thief you still have a horse thief.
Doglvr speaketh truth there. You divorce a manipulative alcoholic and he gets sober, you're just divorced from a manipulative sober guy.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:45 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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...could someone please read this, and let me know if I'm reading into this too much or not? I know I'm being ridiculous and paranoid, but after listening to this over and over I'm starting to feel like he's believing whatever line G fed to him, and I need an impartial person to tell me I'm being crazy and that this Steve person may actually be able to help.


Hello, my name is Steve, I'm calling from <the rehab place>. Today is Wednesday the 29th, it is approximately 5:45pm. The reason for my call is I am G's councilor, here at <rehab place>, and the time I have been working with him, had a quick session with him this evening, he was very upset, devastated, over the fact that him and I were talking about some of the consequences of his behavior recently and his use of alcohol, he was extremely devastated about that, very emotional about some of the consequences it might be having on you and the relationship.
Him and I did talk about contacting you, and possibly limiting his calls to perhaps once per day, something G would be amenable to, but some clarification on you might be helpful, it might help me with my help with G and how we are working with him.
So if by chance you are amenable to a phone call, and perhaps sharing with me perhaps your thoughts, your feelings as where you're at, that would be very helpful and a great way to guide us through what's happening here.
So anyway, my phone number is <>, my extension here is <>.
Again, it's a quarter of 6, I'll be leaving shortly, so hopefully you'll have a chance to call me tomorrow. Thank you very much.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:57 PM
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I'm confused. Did this guy, the counselor, call you and leave that message? What's up with that?? I've never known a counselor to get involved in the romantic relationships of their patients. That's just unfathomable to me.

In any case, it sounds to me like "G" is doing his best to control you from where he is. He wants you to constantly think about him and his situation and wants to make you feel like you are an integral part of his rehabilitation. Of course, nothing is further from the truth.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
I'm confused. Did this guy, the counselor, call you and leave that message? What's up with that?? I've never known a counselor to get involved in the romantic relationships of their patients. That's just unfathomable to me.
He called and left the message, yes.
By the timestamp, it was about 15 minutes after I hung up on G and turned my phone off, and only about 5-10 minutes after G's last spiteful message, which has scared me into wondering why this phone call?

Also, the "once per day" thing is from me. I lay that law down today, because he called me six times and I can't get well if he keeps calling.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:07 PM
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I interpreted that as, "G is very upset about the possible demise of your marriage and I'd like to have some input about your feelings in this regard so that I can counsel G appropriately." Seems like something a counselor would do. <shrug>
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:10 PM
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Well, at least you realize that he is a manipulator, so, as hard as it may be, don't let him manipulate you. I know they frown on this around here, but what I'd do is have NO contact with him while he is in there, and figure out what I really want. You need time away from him on all fronts so you can get your mind clear and look at things in their proper perspective. The more time you have away from his manipulative influence, the clearer things will become and you might just realize that you don't want all this crap in your life.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:15 PM
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I agree w/TJP..they know he's full of sh#$ and want to get your view..they listen to this all day every day and do not believe him I can pretty much guarantee. It can probably only help..including them watching him closer w/his excessive calling,etc.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:36 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Thanks, tjp613 and keepinon... I figured as much, but there's always that little nagging voice...

Also, and I'm actually embarrassed to say this now, but he's my boyfriend, not my husband. We've been dating for three years (he'd tell you six, but we've only known each other for five years), he's always talking about how once he gets his bills paid off (spending - his other addiction) he'll marry me, and for the past six months I've been fighting with myself about whether I'd say "yes" or not.
I moved into this current apartment over the summer (six months ago) to be closer to him and have somewhere nicer to live (still a nice area, not as expensive, I have a 1-br w/ den for the price of the studio I moved from, plus this place has a swim club, golf course, etc). I'm the only name on the lease, I'm the one who decided to move here and where (he screamed bloody murder during the move), and then since I've moved here he moved himself in and I've learned exactly how controlling he really wants to be. Back in my old apartment he still lived with his mother, so I had my space to do what I wanted to relax at night. Now... I may pay the rent, but he's the only one who really "lived" here.

His family has been very supporting (again, excluding his mother), and many of them are actually asking me about my future plans and whether or not I'll stick around. Apparently being around me in the beginning "fixed" this drinking problem of his for awhile (2 years), and he stopped trying to control their lives (and hadn't started to try and control mine yet), and they thought that little old me had cured it, but it's back with a vengeance now.

In short, I had invited him to bring over some of his dressy clothing, since he liked to stop somewhere before going out to dinner to "wash up" and get changed into nicer clothes, and I told him that sometimes we could have a nice weekend here instead of going to a hotel, but I never offered to let him move in (he'll claim that I did). Once minute he was refusing to come over here for any reason, and the next he was refusing to leave.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:44 PM
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This is your opportunity, hon. You have this time to decide if this is really what you want in your life. Even if he stops drinking, he's still going to have the same manipulative tendencies as he has now. Like I've said before, you sober up a manipulative jerk, and you're still left with a manipulative jerk. Take the time.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:46 PM
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ok...this is what i get....

he is in detox rehab...he calls...ALOT...time to set boundaries....
you are not responsible for his ACTIONS...he needs to get well

AND

so do you....so it time for AL ANON and who ever wants to go with you great...otherwise, use this time for YOU and dont get hung up about the others and their own recovery...we all have our own issues...you do need to think what will happen when he gets out..ie coming back into the home....again your boundaries..what you say, GOES...do what you think is right by YOU...feel confident in your decision(s) and for you future with him? you dont have to do anything rash....no need to hurry...it will all come to you in time....you have the tools today but tomorrow you may get something else to add to help....FIRST THINGS FIRST dont focus to much on him...only on YOU
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
you sober up a manipulative jerk, and you're still left with a manipulative jerk. Take the time.
So very true! Unfortunately I had to learn this lesson the hard way
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:59 PM
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Now would be a good time to thank God you never got married!!!

I used to volunteer on a domestic abuse hotline and I can tell you with all assurance that he definitely fits the profile of an abuser. It can be difficult to see when you are in the middle of it all--living it--and the control is insidious. He seems particularly adept!

I'd like to recommend a book that will be VERY helpful for you to read: Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. You should be able to find a used copy online for about $5.00-6.00.

I would also like to point out (and you'll learn the same in the book if you read it) that controlling, abusive men are notoriously difficult to treat successfully. Please don't fool yourself into thinking that a few trips to the psychologist and a handful of AA meetings will do the trick. Chances are great that he is ONLY doing those things as a manipulation to get back with you -- you have clearly stated this is required, so that's why he's doing it! A month or two from now things will most likely be exactly the same--or maybe much worse.

I say, "Get while the gettin's good!" But that's just my $0.02!

How old is this guy anyway?
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:01 PM
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I'll take that recommendation on that book...thanks! now to find one! *lol*
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:11 PM
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The manipulative Man is areally good book too..has little quizzes on what "type" your guy is..basic and to the point.
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