Not surprised
Not surprised
I asked DS if he wanted to call his daddy and he said, 'Yes, I want wish him a Merry Christmas and tell him about my present.' So I hand him my phone, DS dials and puts it on speaker phone. XAH had been drinking. His usual for Christmas Day. Not enough to be slurring grotesquely, but enough for his speech patterns to be affected. DS could tell too. Instead of gabbering forever or telling him what he got, he tells him 'Love You' and hangs up.
The GF's email today about the pick up tomorrow was decidedly less cordial.
So, I have a question: Do I ask GF about if XAH had been drinking today when she picks up DS for their dinner tomorrow?
She's supposed to report to the court if XAH drinks, but there is no requirement for testing...
I'm not even living with him any more and I'm still... I don't know. What if
I'm imagining it? There's nothing I can do if he is drinking again, especially if she's not going to report it. Asking her won't do me or DS any good. So, no, I don't think I'll ask. But what do I do?
If I report it, all I can say is it sounded like he'd been drinking. I didn't see him. I have no proof. It's my word against his and possibly hers. Would the court even care? DS was not with him. When DS goes over the visits are supervised so there should be one sober adult around. Would they think that's enough?
In that light, do I just let it go?
How do I let go? I feel like a neurotic lunatic here. Am I just freaking out about the divorce and visits still? Is it just the holidays?
Please. I just want to feel sane. I want to believe DS is safe when he sees his dad... How do you do it? How do you believe when you know that if you hadn't left, you wouldn't be sane or safe?
I am stronger than this. Why am I thrown into such a tailspin by the sound of him drunk again?
The GF's email today about the pick up tomorrow was decidedly less cordial.
So, I have a question: Do I ask GF about if XAH had been drinking today when she picks up DS for their dinner tomorrow?
She's supposed to report to the court if XAH drinks, but there is no requirement for testing...
I'm not even living with him any more and I'm still... I don't know. What if
I'm imagining it? There's nothing I can do if he is drinking again, especially if she's not going to report it. Asking her won't do me or DS any good. So, no, I don't think I'll ask. But what do I do?
If I report it, all I can say is it sounded like he'd been drinking. I didn't see him. I have no proof. It's my word against his and possibly hers. Would the court even care? DS was not with him. When DS goes over the visits are supervised so there should be one sober adult around. Would they think that's enough?
In that light, do I just let it go?
How do I let go? I feel like a neurotic lunatic here. Am I just freaking out about the divorce and visits still? Is it just the holidays?
Please. I just want to feel sane. I want to believe DS is safe when he sees his dad... How do you do it? How do you believe when you know that if you hadn't left, you wouldn't be sane or safe?
I am stronger than this. Why am I thrown into such a tailspin by the sound of him drunk again?
Sweetie, I don't have personal experience, but wanted to send you a big (((((Hug)))). I'm hoping other mom's will soon post.
The closest experience I have, is of my niece. Her mom (my baby stepsister) died when Brit was just a year old. Her "dad" is an A, 100%. His parents tried to get custody, it was an ugly mess, but Brit...by the age of 3, had her own lawyer, psychologist and the greatest gift...a guardian ad-litem. They are concerned with the best interests of the child....no politics mattered. I don't know if every state has them, but they were a Godsend.
When Brit was still very young, she would see a car that LOOKED like her other grandparents, and scream "NOOOOOOOOO, don't send me to mee-maw and paw-paws...NOOOOO". We were court-ordered to let her have supervised visits with her "dad", at his dad and stepmom's place. They have lots of money, we don't.
It didn't matter...the guardian ad-litem talked with the psychologist (we'd already looked for bruises, any sign of physical abuse...found none) and found that "dad's" stepmom was verbally abusive....all visitations were ceased. We went through he!! to get to this point....she was kidnapped (had a judge threaten to lock up everone in her "dad's" family to get her back), my dad was accused of molestation (totally false, and proven) but we prevailed.
Today, Brit is 17 years old. She's been told (by me) what we went through to keep her from harm...she had no idea. She thought we didn't care. She has her own issues, thanks to a very codie stepmom, but I try to give her a good role model...I'm an RA, she is VERY aware of what I did, when I did it. There were things I wish she had gotten, while growing up....discipline, consequences, etc. but I've had to accept that as much as I love her (I was there they day she was born...she's the closets I have to my own child) she has to find her way. Her "dad" is now wanting to be a "dad". She wants nothing to do with him.
We did what we could. The guardian ad-litem was truly a big help. It's tough, dealing with the courts, judges, etc. but we fought like he!!, and she does know that.
I don't know if any of this will help you, but I do want you to know that there are people here who understand...who have been through similar circumstances.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
The closest experience I have, is of my niece. Her mom (my baby stepsister) died when Brit was just a year old. Her "dad" is an A, 100%. His parents tried to get custody, it was an ugly mess, but Brit...by the age of 3, had her own lawyer, psychologist and the greatest gift...a guardian ad-litem. They are concerned with the best interests of the child....no politics mattered. I don't know if every state has them, but they were a Godsend.
When Brit was still very young, she would see a car that LOOKED like her other grandparents, and scream "NOOOOOOOOO, don't send me to mee-maw and paw-paws...NOOOOO". We were court-ordered to let her have supervised visits with her "dad", at his dad and stepmom's place. They have lots of money, we don't.
It didn't matter...the guardian ad-litem talked with the psychologist (we'd already looked for bruises, any sign of physical abuse...found none) and found that "dad's" stepmom was verbally abusive....all visitations were ceased. We went through he!! to get to this point....she was kidnapped (had a judge threaten to lock up everone in her "dad's" family to get her back), my dad was accused of molestation (totally false, and proven) but we prevailed.
Today, Brit is 17 years old. She's been told (by me) what we went through to keep her from harm...she had no idea. She thought we didn't care. She has her own issues, thanks to a very codie stepmom, but I try to give her a good role model...I'm an RA, she is VERY aware of what I did, when I did it. There were things I wish she had gotten, while growing up....discipline, consequences, etc. but I've had to accept that as much as I love her (I was there they day she was born...she's the closets I have to my own child) she has to find her way. Her "dad" is now wanting to be a "dad". She wants nothing to do with him.
We did what we could. The guardian ad-litem was truly a big help. It's tough, dealing with the courts, judges, etc. but we fought like he!!, and she does know that.
I don't know if any of this will help you, but I do want you to know that there are people here who understand...who have been through similar circumstances.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Thank you, Impurrfect, for sharing your niece's story.
The courts already know that XAH is / was verbally and sexually abusive and physically intimidating towards me in front of DS. It's the reason his visits are supervised. He lied to the court about where he lived, they found out and as a result, he was 'rewarded' (I know that's not how the court sees it, but it is probably how he sees it) with his GF being able to supervise in addition to (really, it's instead of) his sister and father. I thought I would start to trust her. I think I did until DS's phone call to his father today.... Now it's evaporated.
Our state has guardian ad litems too. But XAH conceded legal and primary physical custody, so we never got to the point where one would be brought in. XAH is also ordered to complete an abusers program, but no deadline was set. I do not expect him to complete it.
The courts already know that XAH is / was verbally and sexually abusive and physically intimidating towards me in front of DS. It's the reason his visits are supervised. He lied to the court about where he lived, they found out and as a result, he was 'rewarded' (I know that's not how the court sees it, but it is probably how he sees it) with his GF being able to supervise in addition to (really, it's instead of) his sister and father. I thought I would start to trust her. I think I did until DS's phone call to his father today.... Now it's evaporated.
Our state has guardian ad litems too. But XAH conceded legal and primary physical custody, so we never got to the point where one would be brought in. XAH is also ordered to complete an abusers program, but no deadline was set. I do not expect him to complete it.
I kind of know how you feel. Where LMC goes for extended periods, EVERYONE is an alcoholic, IMO, although her g-mother can abstain for periods where the grand kids are around.
I don't understand the legal system really, I don't think they quite "get it" in regard to alcoholics and their drinking, otherwise kids wouldn't be required to have "visitation" at all with an active alcoholic. I mean, what possible good can come of it?
For me it kind of fell under the realm of "things out of my control", whether LMC was/is around drunks/drinking or not. If you feel like the GF is sober and responsible, then your little boy will be physically safe. The courts don't really consider emotional damage from exposure to a drunk parent/adult.
I guess that's where I have to believe LMC has her own HP who has watched over her through lots of drunken episodes in the past. LMC is 9 now, so I don't worry so much about the physical safety part, just the emotional part.
But I do know exactly where you are coming from and I'm sorry for your angst. Relationships with drunks are very difficult, on any level.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I don't understand the legal system really, I don't think they quite "get it" in regard to alcoholics and their drinking, otherwise kids wouldn't be required to have "visitation" at all with an active alcoholic. I mean, what possible good can come of it?
For me it kind of fell under the realm of "things out of my control", whether LMC was/is around drunks/drinking or not. If you feel like the GF is sober and responsible, then your little boy will be physically safe. The courts don't really consider emotional damage from exposure to a drunk parent/adult.
I guess that's where I have to believe LMC has her own HP who has watched over her through lots of drunken episodes in the past. LMC is 9 now, so I don't worry so much about the physical safety part, just the emotional part.
But I do know exactly where you are coming from and I'm sorry for your angst. Relationships with drunks are very difficult, on any level.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I am so sorry you are having to go through this.
I think Amy's story bears reading again. I would suggest you start documenting everything in an ongoing journal, including emails, save voice mails, etc and then go back to court and get the Guardian Ad-Litem appointed for your DS. That keeps you 'out of it', the Guardian has the 'say so' and ........................ it is extra protection for DS.
I am sending good thoughts and prayers.
Love and hugs,
I think Amy's story bears reading again. I would suggest you start documenting everything in an ongoing journal, including emails, save voice mails, etc and then go back to court and get the Guardian Ad-Litem appointed for your DS. That keeps you 'out of it', the Guardian has the 'say so' and ........................ it is extra protection for DS.
I am sending good thoughts and prayers.
Love and hugs,
I still feel like I'm a neurotic mess. I didn't sleep well last night and been feeling anxious and scared; pretty much like how I felt when I first started actually facing the abuse in our relationship. All because I heard his voice over the phone after he had been drinking.
The findings for our case stated that the court was afraid XAH would teach DS to treat women the same way. I know that's why they really shortened the visits, but it's not what scares me about letting DS go over.
I'm still documenting everything.
Coyote, how do you stay sane when LMC is with her mom? How do you let go and believe your and LMC's HPs will take care of her?
Despite all the good things that have come about when I finally let go and trusted my HP (XAH being caught in at least 3 major lies to the court, the court recognizing that his behavior was abusive even though he never hit me...) I'm having a really hard time with this. How can I trust my HP for some things but not others?
The findings for our case stated that the court was afraid XAH would teach DS to treat women the same way. I know that's why they really shortened the visits, but it's not what scares me about letting DS go over.
I'm still documenting everything.
Coyote, how do you stay sane when LMC is with her mom? How do you let go and believe your and LMC's HPs will take care of her?
Despite all the good things that have come about when I finally let go and trusted my HP (XAH being caught in at least 3 major lies to the court, the court recognizing that his behavior was abusive even though he never hit me...) I'm having a really hard time with this. How can I trust my HP for some things but not others?
Coyote, how do you stay sane when LMC is with her mom? How do you let go and believe your and LMC's HPs will take care of her?
She ordinarily stays with her g-mother, but mom lives 2 blks away and LMC has a cell phone, and although the visits are supervised per court order, WE still have the burden of enforcing it.
They are 4 hours away. They can DO whatever they want, I really have no control. I put the responsibility on the grand mother, where I believe it belongs while LMC is down there. I did it nicely, I pointed out that I have no control, I told her SHE was in a better position to make decisions regarding LMC's welfare, and that I trusted her and was in a position of holding her responsible for LMC's safety.
Truthfully, I was EXACTLY as frightened as you are when LMC was little, these visits started at 5yo, like your little man...it was hard. She's 9 now, and has a VERY STRONG personality, is very cautious, and is NOT going to allow herself to be put in a dangerous situation. It's a sad situation to put a young child in, but I don't know what else to do, short of stopping visitation completely.
Unfortunately I don't find out what went on down there till LMC gets home and fills me in. I try not to grill her, because I don't want to burden her by trying to some how cover up anything. It all comes out in regular conversation the first few days she's home. If there's any "sketchy" goings on, I address it with the grandmother. It's not a perfect situation by any means.
I think the age thing is the biggest factor in my being able to not obsess over the visits these days. IDK, sometimes I think I'm NOT protecting LMC enough, if allow myself to go there.
I know it's hard and sh!tty and I hate that we have to do it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
She ordinarily stays with her g-mother, but mom lives 2 blks away and LMC has a cell phone, and although the visits are supervised per court order, WE still have the burden of enforcing it.
They are 4 hours away. They can DO whatever they want, I really have no control. I put the responsibility on the grand mother, where I believe it belongs while LMC is down there. I did it nicely, I pointed out that I have no control, I told her SHE was in a better position to make decisions regarding LMC's welfare, and that I trusted her and was in a position of holding her responsible for LMC's safety.
Truthfully, I was EXACTLY as frightened as you are when LMC was little, these visits started at 5yo, like your little man...it was hard. She's 9 now, and has a VERY STRONG personality, is very cautious, and is NOT going to allow herself to be put in a dangerous situation. It's a sad situation to put a young child in, but I don't know what else to do, short of stopping visitation completely.
Unfortunately I don't find out what went on down there till LMC gets home and fills me in. I try not to grill her, because I don't want to burden her by trying to some how cover up anything. It all comes out in regular conversation the first few days she's home. If there's any "sketchy" goings on, I address it with the grandmother. It's not a perfect situation by any means.
I think the age thing is the biggest factor in my being able to not obsess over the visits these days. IDK, sometimes I think I'm NOT protecting LMC enough, if allow myself to go there.
I know it's hard and sh!tty and I hate that we have to do it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I have something similar to Coyote in some ways, but in others nothing like it.
I allow contact for my nephew with his Mothers family (both his parents are gone) my head knows thy are no good for this boy, but my heart says for him they're his link with his mum.
They screw his head up, mess with him and completely confuse him, but still I lrt him go. Why? Because he wants to, it's as simple as that.
I don't want him to go, ever. I trully believe they do him no good whatsoever.
They play with his emotions, they tell im that he shold go because his Nan i 80 and he wont see her many more times, they tell him if I adopt him he will have to change his mane and never see them again (not true but you know.......) they tell im so many things that I wonder where the drink is to be honest.
Up to now we have no court orders, my say is final as I have parental responsibility. She threatens me with court from time to time but has never followed up on it (I half wish she would but I'm under UK laws) but she has no qualms about telling my Joe what her plans are, then not following through.
I would love to stop contact completely,because i don't think they're entirely the best thing in his life, but wont because he wants it from time to time. if he was in any way at risk, or I thought he might be then I wouldn't hesitate to stop it 'temporarily' while things got sorted (and i have done this in the past) but Uk law is a lot different to US law.
I allow contact for my nephew with his Mothers family (both his parents are gone) my head knows thy are no good for this boy, but my heart says for him they're his link with his mum.
They screw his head up, mess with him and completely confuse him, but still I lrt him go. Why? Because he wants to, it's as simple as that.
I don't want him to go, ever. I trully believe they do him no good whatsoever.
They play with his emotions, they tell im that he shold go because his Nan i 80 and he wont see her many more times, they tell him if I adopt him he will have to change his mane and never see them again (not true but you know.......) they tell im so many things that I wonder where the drink is to be honest.
Up to now we have no court orders, my say is final as I have parental responsibility. She threatens me with court from time to time but has never followed up on it (I half wish she would but I'm under UK laws) but she has no qualms about telling my Joe what her plans are, then not following through.
I would love to stop contact completely,because i don't think they're entirely the best thing in his life, but wont because he wants it from time to time. if he was in any way at risk, or I thought he might be then I wouldn't hesitate to stop it 'temporarily' while things got sorted (and i have done this in the past) but Uk law is a lot different to US law.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
Thanks for posting you story. Although I have no advice, it is helpful to read. I feel like the restrictions for the A while having the child, are not much better than a restraining order on a stalker. It feels like the paperwork truly does not have much affect of what can really happen in either situation. It's a terrible plight.
We'll be looking into our custody options as we are likely splitting - at the least, separating, some time in the new year. My son SO does not want to have to do the back/forth thing he sees his friends do. I SO do not trust that my A will not drink during his visitation no matter what amount of paper we get that tells him not to. It's the worst part of the whole split up scene. Yes, you get the A out of the house but still have to deal with them. Ugh.
We'll be looking into our custody options as we are likely splitting - at the least, separating, some time in the new year. My son SO does not want to have to do the back/forth thing he sees his friends do. I SO do not trust that my A will not drink during his visitation no matter what amount of paper we get that tells him not to. It's the worst part of the whole split up scene. Yes, you get the A out of the house but still have to deal with them. Ugh.
Thanks for posting you story. Although I have no advice, it is helpful to read. I feel like the restrictions for the A while having the child, are not much better than a restraining order on a stalker. It feels like the paperwork truly does not have much affect of what can really happen in either situation. It's a terrible plight.
We'll be looking into our custody options as we are likely splitting - at the least, separating, some time in the new year. My son SO does not want to have to do the back/forth thing he sees his friends do. I SO do not trust that my A will not drink during his visitation no matter what amount of paper we get that tells him not to. It's the worst part of the whole split up scene. Yes, you get the A out of the house but still have to deal with them. Ugh.
We'll be looking into our custody options as we are likely splitting - at the least, separating, some time in the new year. My son SO does not want to have to do the back/forth thing he sees his friends do. I SO do not trust that my A will not drink during his visitation no matter what amount of paper we get that tells him not to. It's the worst part of the whole split up scene. Yes, you get the A out of the house but still have to deal with them. Ugh.
I have to say, I didn't mean to say 'my Joe' in my previous post, I typed my nephew then remembered i wasn't on the forum I use where i don't use his name, I forgot to delete 'my' lol
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I want to believe DS is safe when he sees his dad... How do you do it? How do you believe when you know that if you hadn't left, you wouldn't be sane or safe?
How do you do that, though? I'm really not trying to be simple here. I'm just finding myself really unable to do that. I'd been able to for maybe 2 weekend visits, but then XAH drank. He may have before, but I didn't hear it, so I don't know. So maybe there is no difference. There should be no difference. But....
I wonder how his girlfriend feels about being put in this position?
I know this might suck, but could you talk to her personally?
Or, is there too much under the bridge? I cant think she would agree to caretaking of a five year old too easily. but who knows.
if possible, i would talk to her softly.
if that doesnt work, bring out the big stick....guardian ad litem, and it is out of your hands.
he would have to go to a neutral place and test for drugs and alcohol before the visits.
i definitely know that feeling in your gut when you know he has been drinking and your baby is going over there. thank god my mother in law was there.
yep, talk to the girlfriend if you can, then document until you talk to a GAL.
Beth
I know this might suck, but could you talk to her personally?
Or, is there too much under the bridge? I cant think she would agree to caretaking of a five year old too easily. but who knows.
if possible, i would talk to her softly.
if that doesnt work, bring out the big stick....guardian ad litem, and it is out of your hands.
he would have to go to a neutral place and test for drugs and alcohol before the visits.
i definitely know that feeling in your gut when you know he has been drinking and your baby is going over there. thank god my mother in law was there.
yep, talk to the girlfriend if you can, then document until you talk to a GAL.
Beth
I'm not sure how soft I can be when I talk with her. The first time she picked up DS, I told her I was trusting her with the most precious thing in my world and to please protect him. She said 'I know.' OK, I get the x-wife is a b--ch thing and that she could have taken that as a slam.
I don't know.... Earlier this month she'd been much more communicative, very accommodating with the pick up and drop off handling, said it was all about making the change over easier for DS. She sent an e-mail this morning about tonight, I sent one to confirm and to ask if we could switch who was picking up / dropping off, because my sister and brother in law asked if I could babysit my nephews while they went over to a friend's holiday party. I can't fit all 3 in my car with 2 needing booster seats. I could drop off DS if she could bring him back. I asked if she could let me know so I could let my sister know and/or find a friend who could help me with picking up DS. No response. I waited an hour. I called and left a message. I had to wait until 15 minutes to drop off time for a response. She called, literally said 'that's fine' and hung up.
Today's two-word phone call does not bode well for any kind of conversation. At least in the near future.
Lucy, I completely get what I think your point was. DS wants to see his father. I know that DS deserves to have a relationship with his father. But DS deserves a non-alcoholic, non-abusive interaction with his father. I'm trying very hard to not stand in the way of that being able to happen. And to try to rein how afraid I've become of XAH.
This girl met a couch-surfing 44 yo alcoholic and moved him into her house with her 2 young kids the same month. She thinks I'm being over-protective. Sees no reason that XAH should not see his son because she did everything she could to "make sure my kids spend every other week with their father." And she told the court that she thinks XAH should have the same schedule and could they make it so they have all 3 kids at once? I'd say she has no problem playing mom to one more, at least on a part time basis. (I don't know why I say 'girl'. She's 2 years younger than I am, and I'm quite a few years past being a girl.)
She dropped DS off tonight and said he was too excited to eat and handed me a baggy with 3 chicken nuggets and a container with ketchup.
Now I'm just venting....
I don't know.... Earlier this month she'd been much more communicative, very accommodating with the pick up and drop off handling, said it was all about making the change over easier for DS. She sent an e-mail this morning about tonight, I sent one to confirm and to ask if we could switch who was picking up / dropping off, because my sister and brother in law asked if I could babysit my nephews while they went over to a friend's holiday party. I can't fit all 3 in my car with 2 needing booster seats. I could drop off DS if she could bring him back. I asked if she could let me know so I could let my sister know and/or find a friend who could help me with picking up DS. No response. I waited an hour. I called and left a message. I had to wait until 15 minutes to drop off time for a response. She called, literally said 'that's fine' and hung up.
Today's two-word phone call does not bode well for any kind of conversation. At least in the near future.
Lucy, I completely get what I think your point was. DS wants to see his father. I know that DS deserves to have a relationship with his father. But DS deserves a non-alcoholic, non-abusive interaction with his father. I'm trying very hard to not stand in the way of that being able to happen. And to try to rein how afraid I've become of XAH.
This girl met a couch-surfing 44 yo alcoholic and moved him into her house with her 2 young kids the same month. She thinks I'm being over-protective. Sees no reason that XAH should not see his son because she did everything she could to "make sure my kids spend every other week with their father." And she told the court that she thinks XAH should have the same schedule and could they make it so they have all 3 kids at once? I'd say she has no problem playing mom to one more, at least on a part time basis. (I don't know why I say 'girl'. She's 2 years younger than I am, and I'm quite a few years past being a girl.)
She dropped DS off tonight and said he was too excited to eat and handed me a baggy with 3 chicken nuggets and a container with ketchup.
Now I'm just venting....
Lucy, I completely get what I think your point was. DS wants to see his father. I know that DS deserves to have a relationship with his father. But DS deserves a non-alcoholic, non-abusive interaction with his father. I'm trying very hard to not stand in the way of that being able to happen. And to try to rein how afraid I've become of XAH.
If I thought he was at risk I would stop contact.
I haven't responded because I don't have very much wisdom in this area. I've been thinking about you though.
I try to separate out the 'safety' concerns over the other concerns. I try to 'Let Go and Let God' when it comes to things that boil down to 'good parenting'. I worry more for their actual safety now and have already let one of my kids know that they might not get to stay over night with dad when he comes back. I can't imagine how much more difficult this would be with personal fear mixed in. Many hugs to you.
I don't feel like I've always done a good job of separating those things out in the past and may have let them stay when I should not have It makes me wish he'd stay moved away until/unless he finds recovery.
I try to separate out the 'safety' concerns over the other concerns. I try to 'Let Go and Let God' when it comes to things that boil down to 'good parenting'. I worry more for their actual safety now and have already let one of my kids know that they might not get to stay over night with dad when he comes back. I can't imagine how much more difficult this would be with personal fear mixed in. Many hugs to you.
I don't feel like I've always done a good job of separating those things out in the past and may have let them stay when I should not have It makes me wish he'd stay moved away until/unless he finds recovery.
so sorry your little guy has this goin on. you're right....he deserves....
that doesn't really translate into anything though.
i think you just keep your radar up for TRUE safety issues, as much as that's possible anyway.
and you educate him, you love him the best you can. that means giving him the message throughout his life that every bit of crap that comes his way from his father, is NOT his "fault", "doing", or in any other way is he responsible. i truly believe that when we teach them this, they really get it. then they have a loss they can deal with (a sick parent, loss of childhood) instead of feeling like they are defective and unlovable.
the main part of his upbringing, is now coming from you. the little visits every so often to his dad will not shape him -- and he will distinguish between the "right" way to live and the wrong way.
that doesn't really translate into anything though.
i think you just keep your radar up for TRUE safety issues, as much as that's possible anyway.
and you educate him, you love him the best you can. that means giving him the message throughout his life that every bit of crap that comes his way from his father, is NOT his "fault", "doing", or in any other way is he responsible. i truly believe that when we teach them this, they really get it. then they have a loss they can deal with (a sick parent, loss of childhood) instead of feeling like they are defective and unlovable.
the main part of his upbringing, is now coming from you. the little visits every so often to his dad will not shape him -- and he will distinguish between the "right" way to live and the wrong way.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 281
Hi Uncertainty,
I've just been reading your post and I agree with what everyone is saying. Laurie mentioned documenting everything. I agree. I would also suggest if your son has the phone on loud speaker, to record the conversation if your ex sounds drunk or is acting wierd. I also understand the Let Go and Let God thing...to a degree. I did that recently when my ex called to pick up our daughter. He was drunk but said he'd stopped drinking and would be sober by the evening. Because he'd been drinking and is obnoxious when he drinks, to say the least, I made sure I sounded calm on the phone. I got off the phone feeling extremely anxious as I did not want my daughter going into his care. I prayed to my HP and handed it over. By lunch time, he'd called again, calling off contact with his daughter as he'd decided to drink again. Thank you HP! If I didn't trust the situation regarding contact, I wouldn't hand my daughter over....but everyone's situation is different. I don't have court orders so it makes it easier for me in this way.
Another point that jumped out to me was when you said his GF gave you a two word answer regarding the facilitation of your son's contact with his father. This may have been a 'one off', however, if it isn't, continue to document the contact between you both. Try, when you can, to organise the contact in writing...texting, emailing (as you have), so you have evidence should anything out of the ordinary occur. The Court has placed GF in the position of 'supervisor' in which she is answerable to the Court. If she makes arranging contact difficult and/or does not notify the Court if or when your ex has been drinking around your son, she's in breach of the Orders made and the Court needs to become aware of this.
Even though my ex and I have no Family Court Orders regarding our daughter, (they wouldn't work anyway because he's unreliable and inconsistent with his contact), there is, however, an AVO which states he cannot come near me or my daughter within 12 hours of drinking or taking drugs. I live 10 minutes away from him and he knows if I call him whilst he has our daughter and find him uncontactable at any stage, I will turn up on his doorstep and remove her if he's been drinking. I will also call the police and have his arse hauled of to gaol. He has a history of violent offences under the influence of alcohol and he knows I will not hesitate to call them. Sober, it's a different story and he's fantastic with our daughter and actually has respect for my alcohol free home. When he takes her anywhere, it's usually to his mothers which is an alcohol free zone or he stays with one of his brothers which is also an alcohol free zone. I am lucky his family understands the extent of the problem and even his alcoholic dad won't drink in front of him.
I know how hard it is to hand your child over to someone who made you feel very unsafe in your relationship and anxiety levels can go through the roof sometimes. My daughter is only 4 and your son is still so young. Coyote said things became easier once his daughter became older. Hopefully this will happen with your son too. In the meantime, listen to your gut feeling, hand things over to HP and document everything. All the best Uncertainty...
I've just been reading your post and I agree with what everyone is saying. Laurie mentioned documenting everything. I agree. I would also suggest if your son has the phone on loud speaker, to record the conversation if your ex sounds drunk or is acting wierd. I also understand the Let Go and Let God thing...to a degree. I did that recently when my ex called to pick up our daughter. He was drunk but said he'd stopped drinking and would be sober by the evening. Because he'd been drinking and is obnoxious when he drinks, to say the least, I made sure I sounded calm on the phone. I got off the phone feeling extremely anxious as I did not want my daughter going into his care. I prayed to my HP and handed it over. By lunch time, he'd called again, calling off contact with his daughter as he'd decided to drink again. Thank you HP! If I didn't trust the situation regarding contact, I wouldn't hand my daughter over....but everyone's situation is different. I don't have court orders so it makes it easier for me in this way.
Another point that jumped out to me was when you said his GF gave you a two word answer regarding the facilitation of your son's contact with his father. This may have been a 'one off', however, if it isn't, continue to document the contact between you both. Try, when you can, to organise the contact in writing...texting, emailing (as you have), so you have evidence should anything out of the ordinary occur. The Court has placed GF in the position of 'supervisor' in which she is answerable to the Court. If she makes arranging contact difficult and/or does not notify the Court if or when your ex has been drinking around your son, she's in breach of the Orders made and the Court needs to become aware of this.
Even though my ex and I have no Family Court Orders regarding our daughter, (they wouldn't work anyway because he's unreliable and inconsistent with his contact), there is, however, an AVO which states he cannot come near me or my daughter within 12 hours of drinking or taking drugs. I live 10 minutes away from him and he knows if I call him whilst he has our daughter and find him uncontactable at any stage, I will turn up on his doorstep and remove her if he's been drinking. I will also call the police and have his arse hauled of to gaol. He has a history of violent offences under the influence of alcohol and he knows I will not hesitate to call them. Sober, it's a different story and he's fantastic with our daughter and actually has respect for my alcohol free home. When he takes her anywhere, it's usually to his mothers which is an alcohol free zone or he stays with one of his brothers which is also an alcohol free zone. I am lucky his family understands the extent of the problem and even his alcoholic dad won't drink in front of him.
I know how hard it is to hand your child over to someone who made you feel very unsafe in your relationship and anxiety levels can go through the roof sometimes. My daughter is only 4 and your son is still so young. Coyote said things became easier once his daughter became older. Hopefully this will happen with your son too. In the meantime, listen to your gut feeling, hand things over to HP and document everything. All the best Uncertainty...
I feel like a neurotic lunatic here. Am I just freaking out about the divorce and visits still? Is it just the holidays?
Can you obtain legal council? Have you checked with the domestic violence folks in your area? Often times, they know the courts and can offer legal advice, they even know the habits of specific judges.
As far as letting go, for me it's all about what I say to myself-otherwise known as prayer. If I were in your situation, I'd pray a lot, I'd thank Creator for bringing me the answers I need to help my children. I'd thank Creator for keeping my children safe. Frame everything in positive terms, that a way, instead of praying and saying, "please dont' let my son get hurt." It's powerful. also, the serenity prayer helps a great deal.
I'll send up prayers for you and your little guy too. Send you strength and wisdom. Eliminate the fear.
Remember-what we water, grows.
Love, Transformie.
Coffee's post reminded me of this. Our therapist told me this early on when I was concerned with the dysfunction LMC was exposed to during visits. MOST of what she learns is from me, and whatever negatives will be over shadowed by what is going on in our home.
I just today realized the "gift" of them getting to see dysfunction, as a reference point for comparison.
I often get just what I need here, thanks.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
P.S. Not sure even I understand what I just tried to say!
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