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Question - how do you handle not pointing out rudeness?

Old 12-11-2010, 06:47 AM
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Question - how do you handle not pointing out rudeness?

I have a question here. One of the things my ex hated about me, was if he was doing something rude or inconsiderate of me, I would point it out. From my point of view, I really didn't see another option. To me, letting him do that thing to me wasn't an option and I was going to say something.

This happened a lot, but one of the easiest examples I can remember is this one: A couple of years ago we bought guitars together. We were both heavy drinkers and talking about how we needed other things to do. One of us suggested guitars and we both got excited and immediately left the bar to go to the music store. We bought some cheap guitars and guitar books. (My ex had played some as a kid so he was already ahead of me) We got home and started trying to learn chords and songs. He kept saying he wanted us to play together and this could be one of hobbies, and I can sing pretty well - sometimes he would play and I would sing. It was a secret for a few weeks - he was embarrassed his friends would make fun of him. One day he finally told his best guy friend (a guy from his alcoholic best friend group) and the guy got really excited. He kept saying, "we're gonna jam man." My ex kept talking about how maybe he and his friend could start a band together and he was going to start bringing the guitar to his house and playing with him. Basically, I was cut out of the picture. Not unusual for my ex to do - in this case I think he is just stupid, not mean.

So after about a week, I decided to say something and I said it as nice as I could. "I need to talk to you about something...just remember...we bought the guitars together and that was going to be our thing. It seems like you guys are going to play now and I'm sort of cut out." He took it okay in that moment but a few days later completely blew up on me for it and screaming at me. How dare I bring that up.

It was one of his biggest pet peeves of me...to ever call out things like that.

Anyone else ever have this experience?

My question - did you learn not to say anything? If you did say anything, were you blown up on?

My counselor says he blew up because he felt ashamed. I don't really believe that.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:57 AM
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your counselor was right. he was trying to throw his guilt for being a jerk onto you. that is what they do. and as the codie we take it up as ours. say what you mean, and mean what you say, but just don't say it meanly.

it is harder for them to really throw it back at us as long as when we express what is bugging us we use our phrases with just "I" and no "you". it gets easier the more one consciously does it. hope this helps
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:09 AM
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Your ex didn't like being called on his poor behavior? Well, boohoo.

No. I didn't keep always keep quiet, although I did learn that it was not really in my best interests to do it. Yes, it was made out to be my fault, although not as overtly as your ex did. One of the many reasons why I left.

You know it's abusive, right?
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:34 AM
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You know it's abusive, right?
Yeah. I had a really abusive mother. I've finally started to realize that no one has to talk to me that way and that everything is not my fault. It was H*ll on earth living with her and I always thought I was over it by moving far away from her and "just moving on." The last few months dealing with that has been a lot worse than dealing with the end of the relationship with my ex.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:37 AM
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it is harder for them to really throw it back at us as long as when we express what is bugging us we use our phrases with just "I" and no "you". it gets easier the more one consciously does it. hope this helps
Do you mean like having phrased it as....? Actually can you tell me how to rephrase something in that way? I know I did try saying something once such as, "I just can't handle...this just isn't for me..." And he still went off like a bomb.

Anyway - the point of the thread...he made a list about me and on his list was that I have "social issues." And this very topic is what he assigned as "social issues." He decided that I have social issues because I would directly try to talk to him about stuff like this instead of just saying nothing.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:42 AM
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Most of the relationship books I've read and all of what I've learned in Al-anon is to begin these types of conversations (when the A is not drunk) with the statement "When this happens, I feel..." Making it about the feelings and not about accusing is a great opener. You may have done that and still feel that it's not working for you, but that may mean that your A is unable to communicate in reality because of his addiction. That happens a lot in our situation, too.

Hang in there!
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:06 AM
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Most of the relationship books I've read and all of what I've learned in Al-anon is to begin these types of conversations (when the A is not drunk) with the statement "When this happens, I feel..." Making it about the feelings and not about accusing is a great opener. You may have done that and still feel that it's not working for you, but that may mean that your A is unable to communicate in reality because of his addiction. That happens a lot in our situation, too.
Thanks! I'm sad to hear that I'm not alone...but glad to know that this wasn't just me.

We are both software engineers and I tend to be more social and one of the more popular than the people that I work with. Telling me I have social issues tended to be a sore spot for me. (He didn't even know that I found his list about me so I know he really believes this.) I'm sure that I do have SOME social issues compared to others being that i work on computers for a living and am so introverted, but I don't feel that it's anything that would be a big deal.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:10 AM
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I HAVE AN EXBF FROM BEFORE MY A WHO DID THAT. ALWAYS ATTACKED WHEN YOU CAlLLED HIM OUT ON BAD BEHAVIOR. IT IS JUST A TACTIC THAT SOME PEOPEL USE. I DO NOT KNOW WHY.

MY EX-ALCOHOLIC DID IT SOMETIMES, BUT NOT AS MUCH AS MY NON-A EX. ACTUALLY ONE OF MY FAMILY FRIENDS DOES THAT AS WELL AS ANOTHER GOOD FRIEND. I THINK SOME PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE TO BE QUESTIONED.

MAYBE IT IS A CONTROLLING THING?
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by goldengirl3 View Post
My counselor says he blew up because he felt ashamed. I don't really believe that.
Hmm, I think she may have a point. My aexh just blew up at me for pointing out his bad behavior-- granted, it was something that he did 3 years ago, and I wasn't nearly as polite as you are-- but he reacted way out of proportion to the subject.

To me, it did have the feeling of shame, like I'd poked a sore spot with a long, sharp stick. It's been a long time since I've experienced it (until last week), but he does go into this sort of singleminded, irrational attack mode when I foolishly try to make him look in the mirror.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:30 PM
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goldengirl,
Boy, can I relate to this thread! Through the help of SR and my own soul searching I have come to realize that my dry drunk husband is psychologically abusing me.

Not to long ago I noticed one of his arms had turned all purple. It reminded me of how my body looked after my organs had started to fail. My mid waist had turned a dark purple. I looked like Barney! STUPID ME!

Out of my concern for him, I suggested that he get a physical. He just snapped on me. He turned the subject totally away from him getting a physical and accused me of spending $150.00 without me running it through him first. I bring home by myself at least $2600.00 a month.

Talk about an irrational attack! I still haven't figured that one out!
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:04 PM
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Long before I ever met my ex, I did a training course that had some stuff from Brian Tracy in it. Man, I wish I had paid more attention. There was a whole section on responsibility in it. He broke it down into "the ability to respond". There is always the time to put a pause in an interaction and then chose how we respond to the stimulus. I try to remember that now.....

golden, have you ever had any therapy or the like to address how your mother behaved towards you?
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:15 PM
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Dear Golden,
No matter what you say or how you say it isn't going to work with someone like this. My therapist used to call them "collectors of injustices".
My friend was very outgoing and the life and soul of the party and she married a guy who then turned around and began to pick away at her confidence. He was jealous! He hated that all she had to do was turn up while he depended on being from a wellknown family etc.
She is now separated and the sparkle is back. I cannot believe the things this guy said and did. If he was right and you have all these social problems, Then I assume you have no friends and people sneak off to lunch without you at work?
Yea, I thought not. It is deflecting from themselves. I also have a sister, who can cut the legs from under people and do it with a smile of concern! It took a long time to learn how to deal with it, and realize that she was not perfect! I would say, "Sis, I really don't like the tone here. I don't want to continue this." I had to not have anything to do with her for a while.
Please, do not listen to this bs. I think his writing lists and stuff is beyond ridiculous. Where is his list on himself? We are told in AA not to take people's inventory. Keep our side of the street clean etc.
ps, Yes it is rude to start a hobby with someone excitedly and then run off and do it with another person. Thoughtless at the very least.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:47 PM
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If someone and I make plans together, I consider that a commitment. In this case, it could be possible for him to keep his commitment about playing guitar with you and also playing with friends. A both scenario rather than either/or.
However if someone breaks a commitment to me, I have the right to discuss that with them. Maybe it is a misunderstanding? Maybe it needs to be re-negotiated due to changing circumstances or needs? Those are respectul, mutual ways to address differences.

I was often the victim of being even more abusively verbally attacked for daring to bring up a current or prior wrongdoing that effected me.
It is intimidation. It is abuse.

I learned the hard way that I simply cannot be in any kind of relationship that employs those dynamics.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:55 PM
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If someone and I make plans together, I consider that a commitment. In this case, it could be possible for him to keep his commitment about playing guitar with you and also playing with friends. A both scenario rather than either/or.
However if someone breaks a commitment to me, I have the right to discuss that with them. Maybe it is a misunderstanding? Maybe it needs to be re-negotiated due to changing circumstances or needs? Those are respectul, mutual ways to address differences.
No, unfortunately it was not a misunderstanding. It was a common trait of his to do things like that. I've compared his friends to toys...myself included. Another fun toy came along and he would put you or whoever on the shelf for a while and play with that toy instead. I had told him that he needed to learn to moderate himself, he can spend time with everyone. He seemed so all or nothing.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:00 PM
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And that's how he is. And you don't like that. So there is no future for you. And a parting of the ways happened.

<gentle voice (again)> What's the problem?
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:07 PM
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I was just pointing out to how a healthy dynamic handles something like this.

I gathered that his way was pure intimidation.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:49 PM
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Sometimes the qualities we think we admire in our dating partner can become resentments as we get to know them more intimate. I thought one of my DDH's "good" quality was the kindness he could show towards strangers. However, I have learned to resent and almost hate this quality of his. My DDH got addicted to a certain website and
even started emailing the other members. He developed close relationships with a couple female members from this website. He would spend a lot of his time corresponding
with these females. He was telling these females "family secrets" about me and his family. I accidentally found out, and he said he was just trying to help them. I bought it! Yet he has remained detached from me and our two sons.

However, now that I was writing this out......it feels like he has played me like a patsy!

******************************************** *****************

I, like everyone else, need to use these Self Esteem Quotes to express our greatness!

•Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid. ~Albert Einstein

•You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love & affection. ~Buddha

•Of all the judgments we pass in life, none is more important than the judgment we pass on ourselves. ~Nathaniel Branden

******************************************** *****************

•Everybody is unique. Compare not yourself with anybody else lest you spoil God’s curriculum. ~Rabbi Israel ben Eliezer

•Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are. ~Malcolm S. Forbes

•You can’t build joy on a feeling of self-loathing. ~Ram Dass

•It's not your job to like me...it's MINE! ~Byron Katie

****************************************** ******************

•Love is the great miracle cure. Loving ourselves works miracles in our lives. ~Louise L. Hay

•The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. ~Joseph Campbell

•Reflect on your present blessings, of which every man has many, not on your past misfortunes, of which all men have some. ~Charles Dickens

•Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

•Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. ~Albert Einstein

This is my personal opinion. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Love and Peace,
Phoenix
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:20 PM
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Bolina what do you mean by what's the problem?

It hurts me that I was picked on so much and told I have social issues and I'm getting feedback and trying to figure that out for myself. I chose to end the relationship and did so with dignity. I'm working on myself and how I feel about myself here. Please move on from my thread. Thanks.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:24 PM
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His way was always intimidation. I always knew not to challenge most things. That's probably why he blew up so much...so I would be afraid to challenge things.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:29 PM
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yes, intimidation and humiliation works.

If it works at an emotional level, then that is where it is dished out...where it hurts.
You would find that if the emotional and verbal intimidation were no longer effective, he would escalate.
It would eventually escalate to open physical abuse.

This did keep you from asserting your rights and from challenging him on his broken agreements etc.

He bullied you.

The humiliation comes in as to where he was saying you were inadequate.

Please try to remember that these are techniques that are abusive. They have everything to do with the abuser and not the abused victim.
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