I don't have the feeling or the energy to cheer him on.
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I don't have the feeling or the energy to cheer him on.
My AH spent about 3 Sundays in a row being totally ridiculously drunk. This, all after assuring me probably 5 weeks earlier, that he was getting better - although from my viewpoint his drinking was getting worse.
I knew it was getting worse and darn it, I was right.
Well, it turns out, he scared himself. He was remorseful for the episodes and now is really trying controlled drinking and for the last 2 weeks has been pretty darn good about it. He even took it upon himself to see a counselor.
And he's angry cuz he's not getting praised or noticed.
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
Well, yes. I'm hurt beyond measure. There's no way for him to understand.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? What do you say when they accuse you of not giving enough praise? I don't feel like praising him, plain and simple.
I knew it was getting worse and darn it, I was right.
Well, it turns out, he scared himself. He was remorseful for the episodes and now is really trying controlled drinking and for the last 2 weeks has been pretty darn good about it. He even took it upon himself to see a counselor.
And he's angry cuz he's not getting praised or noticed.
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
Well, yes. I'm hurt beyond measure. There's no way for him to understand.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? What do you say when they accuse you of not giving enough praise? I don't feel like praising him, plain and simple.
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We praise dogs when they do something we have trained them to do. When a human does something they are supposed to do, that does not deserve praise. It's great and all that he appears to be doing better, but a couple of weeks of good after years of lousy is not something that deserves praise.
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I praised my kids while they were "learning" life actions, eg, toilet training, feeding themselves, dressing themselves, etc.....but a grown up?
He wants praise from you for HIM NOT getting drunk. What is next "good boy" for NOT peeing the bed, shaving himself or something else that GROWN men are supposed to be able to do as normal.
Had he scared himself into a recovery program and worked it to be a sober man, hey yeah....a pat on the back occasionally is ok, but expecting you in his bed as some reward for drinking less booze? HA.
I'd be sleeping in the spare room just as you are, and staying there cause he has not got the message yet, that you are still hurt, angry and upset at his actions and a couple of weeks drinking less, does not cut it.
He wants praise from you for HIM NOT getting drunk. What is next "good boy" for NOT peeing the bed, shaving himself or something else that GROWN men are supposed to be able to do as normal.
Had he scared himself into a recovery program and worked it to be a sober man, hey yeah....a pat on the back occasionally is ok, but expecting you in his bed as some reward for drinking less booze? HA.
I'd be sleeping in the spare room just as you are, and staying there cause he has not got the message yet, that you are still hurt, angry and upset at his actions and a couple of weeks drinking less, does not cut it.
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Originally Posted by Jadmack25 
I praised my kids while they were "learning" life actions, eg, toilet training, feeding themselves, dressing themselves, etc.....but a grown up?
He wants praise from you for HIM NOT getting drunk. What is next "good boy" for NOT peeing the bed, shaving himself or something else that GROWN men are supposed to be able to do as normal.
He wants praise from you for HIM NOT getting drunk. What is next "good boy" for NOT peeing the bed, shaving himself or something else that GROWN men are supposed to be able to do as normal.
The first time I left him, he got me to come back by telling me he was going to AA and had so many amends to make to me and DS. I was amazed by his 'insight.' Needless to say, his actions did not match his words and he could never tell me what he needed to make amends for. He then didn't understand why I didn't immediately forgive him for all of the other stuff, after all he said he had to make amends.
What he didn't and still doesn't understand is that it takes time to rebuild the trust.
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whereisthisgoin, I had a similar situation. I've reached a point with my dry drunk husband that I feel it's a day late and a dollar short. I tried to explain to him that I only wanted two things from him: to get a physical, and to go into individual counseling. He asked me what was in it for him. I responded it was for his own benefit. He told me that was the wrong response. He told me that he wanted me to be nicer to him. I've been as nice to him as I can be!
I call the reaction between alcoholics and codependents as cat-and-mouse games. It means "a contrived action involving constant pursuit, near captures, and repeated escapes." The "cat" is unable to secure a definitive victory over the "mouse", who despite not being able to defeat the cat, is able to avoid capture. The term may imply that the contest is never-ending.
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I call the reaction between alcoholics and codependents as cat-and-mouse games. It means "a contrived action involving constant pursuit, near captures, and repeated escapes." The "cat" is unable to secure a definitive victory over the "mouse", who despite not being able to defeat the cat, is able to avoid capture. The term may imply that the contest is never-ending.
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Ugh - it's just ridiculous. It's another defense mechanism, isn't it? "Here I am, doing everything you wanted and you are still not happy? You'll never be happy."
And then the drinking will resume.
I can just feel it.
He's trying to put this all on me and I am too tired to give a hoot.
And then the drinking will resume.
I can just feel it.
He's trying to put this all on me and I am too tired to give a hoot.
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I am guessing that what he really meant was "I've done what you said and you still won't have sex with me." Am I on the right lines? (Sorry x-posted - you're a smart cookie to also realize that the bit he didn't say was also "so I might as well drink".)
It's heartbreaking when one is confronted with the evidence that the person one chose to spend one's life with demonstrates so clearly don't give a rat's behind about their partner's situation. It's indefensible to want praise for one course of action but are unwilling to examine the consequences of another and just want everything to go back to normal. What is "normal", anyway? Is he really expecting a healthy relationship to spring from the embers of the furnace he created without any examination? Hopefully he will reach this realization through counselling.
Do you go to Al-anon or counselling so that you get some support for yourself?
It's heartbreaking when one is confronted with the evidence that the person one chose to spend one's life with demonstrates so clearly don't give a rat's behind about their partner's situation. It's indefensible to want praise for one course of action but are unwilling to examine the consequences of another and just want everything to go back to normal. What is "normal", anyway? Is he really expecting a healthy relationship to spring from the embers of the furnace he created without any examination? Hopefully he will reach this realization through counselling.
Do you go to Al-anon or counselling so that you get some support for yourself?
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Just remembered this passage from Melodie Beattie's Beyond Codependency:
"Listen to the following conversation between two women. One woman is recovering from adult children issues and a marriage to an alcoholic. The other is of fairly normal descent.
"I can't decide whether to break up with my boyfriend or not,"says a woman.
"What are his good points?" asks her friend.
"Well, he works every day. He usually does what he says he's going to do. He's kind. And he never hits me."
"No," says her friend. "You don't understand. What are his good points? The things you listed are givens."
"Oh," says the woman. "I didn't know that.""
"Listen to the following conversation between two women. One woman is recovering from adult children issues and a marriage to an alcoholic. The other is of fairly normal descent.
"I can't decide whether to break up with my boyfriend or not,"says a woman.
"What are his good points?" asks her friend.
"Well, he works every day. He usually does what he says he's going to do. He's kind. And he never hits me."
"No," says her friend. "You don't understand. What are his good points? The things you listed are givens."
"Oh," says the woman. "I didn't know that.""
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Yes, I remember this game. XAH played it *a lot*, because he generally felt that the entire friggin world didn't appreciate him.
Where I was concerned, he expected instant, repetitive and lengthy "oral satisfaction" when he would a) shower after 2 weeks of not doing so, b) cut down on whatever alcohol he was drinking, c) brush his teeth, d) NOT spend our entire rent money on junk food, beer, smokes and the latest PS3 version of "Kill The Bad Guy/Alien With The Largest And Loudest Gun Possible".
Needless to say, he was often disappointed.
Where I was concerned, he expected instant, repetitive and lengthy "oral satisfaction" when he would a) shower after 2 weeks of not doing so, b) cut down on whatever alcohol he was drinking, c) brush his teeth, d) NOT spend our entire rent money on junk food, beer, smokes and the latest PS3 version of "Kill The Bad Guy/Alien With The Largest And Loudest Gun Possible".
Needless to say, he was often disappointed.
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I understand your frustration. My AH says the exact thing- must be very typical. To praise somone for behaving like a grown up ? WTH? AH also says - if he does cut back - I am still a B and still not nice and still won't sleep with him so why should he? Oh I don't know because you have lost your 2nd family to alcohol maybe - because you won't discuss the horrible things you have done or tried to make up in some way for all the damage ? Hang in there and take what little comfort it is that there are others in your situation~ Much peace!
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ha ha, noday. i totally relate.
mine was the same. it got to the point in our relationship that in order to have sex with him, i'd have to wait an hour or so while he bathed, changed his underwear, shaved, brushed his teeth...talk about lack of spontanity! it was too big a deal! by then, i was sleeping.
plus, i wouldn't have sex with him if he had been drinking, so that ruled out 90% of the time.
sheesh.
naive
mine was the same. it got to the point in our relationship that in order to have sex with him, i'd have to wait an hour or so while he bathed, changed his underwear, shaved, brushed his teeth...talk about lack of spontanity! it was too big a deal! by then, i was sleeping.
plus, i wouldn't have sex with him if he had been drinking, so that ruled out 90% of the time.
sheesh.
naive
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whereisthisgoing-
i totally relate. mine would always binge around christmas, big time. one christmas, he decided he would cut back. i said nothing about it and he complained that i wasn't supporting him in his "not drinking". well, his not drinking was still 5 pints of lager a night, which in my opinion is still drinking. plus, i was just waiting for the other shoe to drop. sure enought, as christmas approached, he went back on it full force.
i couldn't really support him because i knew that he was an alcoholic and that it was merely a matter of time before he went back to drinking heavy. plus, i found when he wasn't drinking as much, his energy was quite manic...there was no peace...he was here, he was there, he was spinning in circles, not really accomplishing much except for burning up a lot of fuel, talking all the time, etc.
i'm not sure which was worse.
naive
i totally relate. mine would always binge around christmas, big time. one christmas, he decided he would cut back. i said nothing about it and he complained that i wasn't supporting him in his "not drinking". well, his not drinking was still 5 pints of lager a night, which in my opinion is still drinking. plus, i was just waiting for the other shoe to drop. sure enought, as christmas approached, he went back on it full force.
i couldn't really support him because i knew that he was an alcoholic and that it was merely a matter of time before he went back to drinking heavy. plus, i found when he wasn't drinking as much, his energy was quite manic...there was no peace...he was here, he was there, he was spinning in circles, not really accomplishing much except for burning up a lot of fuel, talking all the time, etc.
i'm not sure which was worse.
naive
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And he's angry cuz he's not getting praised or noticed.
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
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Typical Alcoholic BS...
...and we could go on and on about it. That said, controlled drinking is still drinking, and unless he is deeply and voluntarily committed to a program of recovery his "controlled drinking" won't last long. First steps don't mean crap unless followed by many, many, many other steps over a sustained period of time, none of which he is entitled to a pat on the back for-- he's a grown-a$$ man!
Don't forget that almost every word out of an alcoholic's mouth is a lie (even when they believe they are telling the truth--their intentions don't mean shi*). Think of them as 4-year olds who are also pathological liars with inferiority complexes that require reassurance constantly, and who want you to take care of everything so they can drink (which we do or have done, which is why we find ourselves here).
Thank God my alcoholic/addict wife who is actively engaged in recovery does not have the, "pet me and make me feel better about my pathetic alcolholic self" ******** going on. Plenty of other ********, but not this.
I'm actually appreciating her at this very moment. Good God-- what's happening to me? She's only been sober since July and I still have a huge fear of relapse. I don't want to start forgiving her yet, dang it!
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. I highly recommmend you find yourself an Al-Anon meeting (How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico). It changed my life in a way I will never be able to repay. I am eternally grateful for Al-Anon and the people in it.
Don't forget that almost every word out of an alcoholic's mouth is a lie (even when they believe they are telling the truth--their intentions don't mean shi*). Think of them as 4-year olds who are also pathological liars with inferiority complexes that require reassurance constantly, and who want you to take care of everything so they can drink (which we do or have done, which is why we find ourselves here).
Thank God my alcoholic/addict wife who is actively engaged in recovery does not have the, "pet me and make me feel better about my pathetic alcolholic self" ******** going on. Plenty of other ********, but not this.
I'm actually appreciating her at this very moment. Good God-- what's happening to me? She's only been sober since July and I still have a huge fear of relapse. I don't want to start forgiving her yet, dang it!
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. I highly recommmend you find yourself an Al-Anon meeting (How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico). It changed my life in a way I will never be able to repay. I am eternally grateful for Al-Anon and the people in it.
Originally Posted by whereisthisgoin
My AH spent about 3 Sundays in a row being totally ridiculously drunk. This, all after assuring me probably 5 weeks earlier, that he was getting better - although from my viewpoint his drinking was getting worse.
I knew it was getting worse and darn it, I was right.
Well, it turns out, he scared himself. He was remorseful for the episodes and now is really trying controlled drinking and for the last 2 weeks has been pretty darn good about it. He even took it upon himself to see a counselor.
And he's angry cuz he's not getting praised or noticed.
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
Well, yes. I'm hurt beyond measure. There's no way for him to understand.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? What do you say when they accuse you of not giving enough praise? I don't feel like praising him, plain and simple.
I knew it was getting worse and darn it, I was right.
Well, it turns out, he scared himself. He was remorseful for the episodes and now is really trying controlled drinking and for the last 2 weeks has been pretty darn good about it. He even took it upon himself to see a counselor.
And he's angry cuz he's not getting praised or noticed.
"I am finally doing everything you want me to do and you still sleep in the guest room?"
Well, yes. I'm hurt beyond measure. There's no way for him to understand.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? What do you say when they accuse you of not giving enough praise? I don't feel like praising him, plain and simple.
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NoDay - Same thing here. XAH didn't even play the games he bought more than once, because they were 'too complicated.' (i.e. XAH was too drunk to see the game clearly, much less actually move the character in any general direction. I also heard very slurred versions of "This *&$%$ controller's broken!" quite a bit.)
WhereIsThisGoing - I completely get the too tired to give a hoot. There are times when it was too much and I needed time for myself. You need that too. You deserve that too. His sobriety does not depend on your praise, it depends only on him.
As I'm reminded quite often by my family, both IRL and SR: take time to do something nice for yourself.
Wishing you peace and continued strength.
WhereIsThisGoing - I completely get the too tired to give a hoot. There are times when it was too much and I needed time for myself. You need that too. You deserve that too. His sobriety does not depend on your praise, it depends only on him.
As I'm reminded quite often by my family, both IRL and SR: take time to do something nice for yourself.
Wishing you peace and continued strength.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 46
Cyranoak I can relate to wanting to forgive/not wanting to forgive, but still fearing the relapse. My AH has only been sober since the end of August. I feel myself trusting him, and forgiving him. I'm going to be heartbroken if he goes back to drinking.
OP- don't feel bad for treating your DDH as a regular human being. He doesn't get brownie points for doing what passes as normal.
OP- don't feel bad for treating your DDH as a regular human being. He doesn't get brownie points for doing what passes as normal.
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The manipulation is so hard to handle in the correct way when I'm in the throes of it. I appreciate all the replies because it helps me keep my head on straight. He was out on business yesterday and called to chat - and I didn't feel like chatting. That launched into more of the same from him - "geez, are you still mad?"
Are you kidding me? Mad doesn't even come close to describing what I'm feeling. I am not simply holding a grudge over the most recent events - I'm shutting down.
I know the writing is on the wall for our relationship - and I used to feel sad about it. But I can only take so much beating up (verbal) of a situation that is not my fault. I am very angry with this disease. I hate that it's eating my AH up and as smart as he is, he doesn't see it. Fascinating and mind boggling all at the same time.
Are you kidding me? Mad doesn't even come close to describing what I'm feeling. I am not simply holding a grudge over the most recent events - I'm shutting down.
I know the writing is on the wall for our relationship - and I used to feel sad about it. But I can only take so much beating up (verbal) of a situation that is not my fault. I am very angry with this disease. I hate that it's eating my AH up and as smart as he is, he doesn't see it. Fascinating and mind boggling all at the same time.
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Are you kidding me? Mad doesn't even come close to describing what I'm feeling. I am not simply holding a grudge over the most recent events - I'm shutting down.
with mine, there was to be no mention of the past...ever. i was to forget it and never discuss it.
so, i tried to do exactly that. but i couldn't. so many awful things had occurred that i needed to talk thru. finally, i went to therapy and that helps a lot...at least i can verbalize how i am feeling without someone throwing a tantrum and yelling at me to "forget it".
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I remember once a friend telling me that you "had to" treat men like you would raise a toddler, over-praising the good, sort of ignoring the bad so as not to give them "bad" attention, and therefore training them to behave in ways that are acceptable to you. I remember looking at her like she was insane.
who has the time or the energy? and what sort of relationship is that?
I would so much rather be single than be in a relationship with a toddler-man, one whose behaviour needed "managing".
years into my relationship with AH, I wondered if she was actually right, and that was where I was failing in my marriage as a wife (crazy times=crazy thoughts) so I tried it, and I hated both myself and him.
If you don't feel like praising him because he is not even getting close to the "givens" then don't, you aren't his mum or teacher. Unfortunately I have no advice on how to successfully get him to understand, accept and be happy about that stance, as I never successfully communicated my POV to stbxah ever.
who has the time or the energy? and what sort of relationship is that?
I would so much rather be single than be in a relationship with a toddler-man, one whose behaviour needed "managing".
years into my relationship with AH, I wondered if she was actually right, and that was where I was failing in my marriage as a wife (crazy times=crazy thoughts) so I tried it, and I hated both myself and him.
If you don't feel like praising him because he is not even getting close to the "givens" then don't, you aren't his mum or teacher. Unfortunately I have no advice on how to successfully get him to understand, accept and be happy about that stance, as I never successfully communicated my POV to stbxah ever.
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It is really insulting to men if we equate them to toddlers, isn't it? How would women feel if the boot was on the other foot?
It's about time we raised the bar to the level that lots of lovely men have managed to reach and let the others avail themselves of the plentiful opportunties for self-development that our wonderful society has provided.
It's about time we raised the bar to the level that lots of lovely men have managed to reach and let the others avail themselves of the plentiful opportunties for self-development that our wonderful society has provided.
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