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He says he will get help!

Old 12-08-2010, 09:02 AM
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He says he will get help!

Well after not hearing from him for two days (he is travelling and attending several business Christmas functions this week) I got a text message today to say that he have spoken to his sponsor and had decided to get help. I responded that that was great and then told him I am now in al-anon. I said it is his fight to fight and that I pray for his strength to take it a day at a time and embrace recovery.

Ok - so straight away my hopes went up. Then I thought - what if he is lying, so many threads here say they do. So I called his sponsor who confirmed that he has reached out and that they will start working together on this tomorrow when he is home and will get him back into AA.

So tonight i thought i would phone him to chat and got a text back that he was out but will call me tomorrow morning.

Part of me is scared....scared of what is around the corner. I love this man (heaven help me) and want the best for him. I just wish he were more attentive. I have made appointments with my therapist again to talk things through and I am so thankful for this site.

I wonder WHY it is so hard to leave these men - is it any harder than leaving other boyfriend??????
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:21 AM
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Any sponsor worth their weight in gold does not discuss in any way, shape, or form what goes on between himself and someone he is sponsoring.

I'd say whoever his supposed 'sponsor' is, is highly suspect.

Keep working on your own recovery, dear.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:50 AM
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JW123,
as I read your post I developed one thought in my mind......codependency!

What IS Co-Dependency, Anyway? Let's look at the name: "dependency" is a form of the word "dependant" which means "Relying on or requiring the aid of another for support." Children are dependent on their parents. Being "CO" dependent means that two people are dependent on each other, emotionally. Now that doesn't sound so bad, does it?

The problem is when the dependency is hurtful, emotionally stunted or keeps one or both people stuck. From reading your post it appears that you are dependent upon your boyfriend for your personal self esteem and respect. One of the most important lessons that I learned from attending Alanon and SR is when a codependent said, "I have learned that all the parts of my personality that I thought were my greatest strengths were actually also my greatest weaknesses. Always being the best friend anyone ever had, always doing whatever anyone asked of me, and always putting other's needs before my own were holding me back."

Learning that your needs are important is a huge lesson. You are just as entitled to have your needs met as anyone else. You are just as entitled to care for yourself first! Learning to take care of yourself first and respect from your boyfriend is a major step towards breaking the co-dependent cycle and gaining self esteem. If someone gets angry with you or abandons you in some way, for placing yourself first, makes that person a not-so-nice person. Maybe you need to examine why they are in your life in the first place.

Obviously this is just one aspect of co-dependency. If you feel that you may have a problem with this, then finding some help may be the next step. You can get some therapy, find a good Al-Anon meeting, or even buy a good book on the subject. Just be willing to see that anyone can be co-dependent, and learn to take care of yourself first!

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Old 12-08-2010, 04:55 PM
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Two things...

1. Rayn is dead nuts on. Any sane person would find it easier to leave an alcoholic than a non-alcoholic and they do it every day. I'm actually embarrassed by the crap I've put up with from my wife. It's people like you and me who have trouble leaving alcoholics. It's part of our problem.

2. What an alcoholic says is meaningless 100 percent of the time. In fact, what anybody says is meaningless 100 percent of the time. The only thing that matters is what is done, not what is said, and not what is tried. What is done. I think Yoda said that to Luke Skywalker. Brilliant puppet. Smarter than me. Good God.

I'd add to that the following: anybody can do anything once, or for a short period of time. Sustaining that over a long period of time is where it is proven. Even then, for an alcoholic, it remains and always will remain one day at a time.

Take care,

Cyranoak

Originally Posted by Rayn3dr0p View Post
"I wonder WHY it is so hard to leave these men - is it any harder than leaving other boyfriend??????"

I don't think the reason it is hard to leave pertains to them; it pertains to us, the codependents. They are not inherently "hard to leave." Any sane person would leave them in a heartbeat. We, on the other hand, are addicted to fixing their problems and taking care of them. I'm learning that any time I try to look for answers about him or his behavior, I often need to direct my thoughts inward. There is something within YOU that makes it difficult to leave.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:26 PM
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I don't know but if someone had told me a couple of years ago that I'd be pining over some guy who had no job and no home, a broken spirit and not two nickels to rub together, I would have laughed and thought it absurd to think that "I" would be with someone like that.

Well here I am! What changed? Nothing actually. I'm in this bizarro world because I fell for him long before his issue surfaced so I am holding my breath, seeing if that person will ever return.

Magic eightball says: try again later.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:34 PM
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Magic eightball says: try again later.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:39 PM
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Yoda says to Luke Skywalker:

Do, or do not, there is no try.
Like going to a meeting, there is no try, do or do not.
Commit to recovery, do or do not.

Beth (as Yoda)

Last edited by wicked; 12-08-2010 at 05:40 PM. Reason: change quote
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:58 PM
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Babyblue: it's not the first time I've seen someone here ref to this life as "Bizzaro world"
This is the exact expression I would use with my ex when there was a fight. I was left baffled, confused and would say to him and anyone who would listen "This is bizzaro world"
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:05 PM
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Yeah where everything is backwards and upside down.

The normal rules don't apply and it is its own very special world!

I have NO experience with addiction in my life until now so I had no idea it was so complex.

The best I can do is really learn from this journey. I love to travel
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenixthebird View Post
JW123,


One of the most important lessons that I learned from attending Alanon and SR is when a codependent said, "I have learned that all the parts of my personality that I thought were my greatest strengths were actually also my greatest weaknesses. Always being the best friend anyone ever had, always doing whatever anyone asked of me, and always putting other's needs before my own were holding me back."
Just had to say, Wow, that is a powerful statement. It describes exactly how I feel and it is hard to see that all those "great" qualities that you receive praise for your whole life can be self-destructive if you don't take care of you first.
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:26 PM
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Omg..i must 've used that Yoda quote 3 times today..BEFORE I read this! It is seriously wise..puppet or not!
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Babyblue View Post
I don't know but if someone had told me a couple of years ago that I'd be pining over some guy who had no job and no home, a broken spirit and not two nickels to rub together, I would have laughed and thought it absurd to think that "I" would be with someone like that.

Well here I am! What changed? Nothing actually. I'm in this bizarro world because I fell for him long before his issue surfaced so I am holding my breath, seeing if that person will ever return.

Magic eightball says: try again later.
Babyblue-i am going through the same thing, as of this am.
I am a intelligent, secure, financially stable, woman.
I have a great family, many friends, lots of outside interests...

BUT am in love with an ALCOHOLIC. He is 6 months sober, goes to 3-4 AA meetings a week and told me this am he cannot be in a romantic relationship with me.
I do NC, but HE is the one that keeps coming back to me....just when I think I am moving forward. The last time he was only gone from my life for 1
month.

He has lost both of his homes, only works 1 day a week, and has had to move back with his parents, at the age of 51.

I ask myself over and over am I nuts???????
My next course if AlAnon.
I am SO happy I found this site.....
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:23 AM
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Rayn, all I would do is...

...berate you for breaking no contact like you've been doing and then you would hate me and I would get in trouble for being mean and have to make an amends (again). Plus, part of my disease is that I have trouble being frank with women. Dudes are easy for me to be emotionally forthright with-- women not so much. You know if I start a post with "Dude," some guy is just being an idiot like me.

Also, from your posts it's clear that you know what to do but are struggling to do it, so I can't really add to it as I'm pretty much in the same boat. Intellectually I know the right move, but I struggle to do it.

Also, I can see you are a pretty cool (insert politically correct slang term for woman here), and I have faith you are moving in the right direction so I'll basically sit back and read your posts unless I truly feel I have something to add. The others usually cover it better than I could.

What you could do is post the same whiny post over and over again while showing no willingness to change, accountability, self-awareness or any progress whatsoever. In that case I'll eventually crack and post some kind of "Good God" comment. That said, there's one person who paralyzes me-- I can't even read her posts anymore because they depress and anger me so much, and if I responded to her I'm fairly certain I'd end up getting kicked off the forum. I'm also fairly certain the rest of you have what it takes to gently guide her into reading more of the awesome responses she gets-- it sure seems like she does a ton of talking and not very much listening-- all while clearly digging as fast as she can in the very deep hole in which she finds herself.

That reminds me; here's a tip for all of us-- Social media sites have unfriend buttons. Use them. Wireless companies have services that allow you to block phone numbers permanently. Use them or change your phone number. And, if your life is already a living hell how in God's name could it get worse if you leave your alcoholic or addict? Denail anybody?

In closing I'd just like to say that looking for a frustrated dude icon reminds me of a question I've had for awhile-- what the heck is this guy doing? Is it even appropriate?

Cyranoak

P.s. C3PO is full on codie. So is Chewbacca. Don't get me started on Han Solo. Solo? Really?

P.p.s. If I were a woman I would have called you a pretty cool chick. I didn't, but I would have.

Originally Posted by Rayn3dr0p View Post
"Dead nuts on..." Cyranoak, you are so friggin hilarious (and, I think it's safe to surmise, wiser than a puppet). I have to admit I'm a little jealous that you have never posted on one of my threads. Hint, hint.

So, I have a question for all you Star Wars buffs: if Yoda is the wise and almighty HP in this scenario (or perhaps just an experienced sponsor) and Luke Skywalker is the addict, who are we?

My vote goes for C3PO, the robotic worrywart. Some quotes:
"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life."
"I'm standing here in pieces, and you're having delusions of grandeur!"
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
What you could do is post the same whiny post over and over again while showing no willingness to change, accountability, self-awareness or any progress whatsoever. In that case I'll eventually crack and post some kind of "Good God" comment. That said, there's one person who paralyzes me-- I can't even read her posts anymore because they depress and anger me so much, and if I responded to her I'm fairly certain I'd end up getting kicked off the forum. I'm also fairly certain the rest of you have what it takes to gently guide her into reading more of the awesome responses she gets-- it sure seems like she does a ton of talking and not very much listening-- all while clearly digging as fast as she can in the very deep hole in which she finds herself.

That reminds me; here's a tip for all of us-- Social media sites have unfriend buttons. Use them.

Yup.

This site has an "ignore" button, I use it often, it is a tool for ME to help keep ME sane. It's up there under the User CP button in the blue tool bar. It keeps me out of trouble for all the same reasons you just listed!

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jds0401 View Post
I ask myself the same question all the time! Why can't I just do what in my head I know I should have done about 3 years ago and just leave!!!! For me personally, I did not have this problem when I was younger though....for us women I think we have additional social pressures (JMO).....this sounds so stupid but my biggest worry (other than his physical health) is very selfish, I worry that I'm too old to find anyone else...I'm in my later 30s.
Well, first of all, let me just say that I left my AH at the ripe old age of 43. And, currently, at the age of 48, I'm enjoying the absolute best romantic relationship of my life. So, being too old to find anyone else--well that's just not so.

But, more importantly, why does it matter. Who says you NEED to find anyone else? You are whole and complete and have a contribution to this world whether you are romantically involved with someone or not.

And, BTW, it was that revelation that got me past the fear of never finding anyone. It didn't matter to me, and then guess what happened? LOL

L
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:39 PM
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I am also in my late 30's.
Lateeda - you give me hope. I battle with this whole co-dependancy thing. I mean to me it is normal to be in a relationships that are "give and take", surely you want to spend happy times with someone? My Dad and Step-Dad died of cancer and I was there for them. I assisted financially and emotionally, when they were not able to really respond because of the pain. When they were grumpy and irritable and wanted to be alone - I did not go into "no contact". I was there to care for them, to pray for them when they could not relate in a "normal" way. Was I being co-dependent in those relationships? I dont think so. So if alcoholism is a disease then why is it wrong to want to do the same thing? I am afraid I dont understand.

Take my children. They depend on me, but to a degree I source my happiness from them. When they are happy, I am happy. I want to be with them, to be there for them, to help them, to pick them up when they fall. Does that make me co-dependent?

I do battle with loneliness - I have three precious children who I have to hand over to their father every alternate weekend and who are exposed to the OW - a woman who divorced her alcoholic husband and sought comfort in mine. He left me for her. I know I have baggage. I am in therapy and I asked my therapist the same question "what is wrong with me that I cant leave ABF" "What was wrong with me that I fought so hard for my marriage when I knew he was in love with her" - I fought for 2 LONG years - he left anyway - my therapist said " it is because you love unconditionally".

I am trying to find out as much information as I can on alcoholism not so I can fix my ABF's problem but so that I can understand. I dont understand WHY he has to withdraw from me to HEAL. Again my therapist says that he can still have contact with others because they dont have a vested interest in him - he can do what he likes and is not threatened emotionally by them. I know his truth and so he cant wear his different masks with me. He is able to relate to his children (little ones) as they are his responsibility and obligation and dont necessarily make emotional demands on him at present. It is so confusing. I mean is alcohol THAT powerful that he throws everything that he KNOWS is good away? I guess I just dont understand the intensity of the whole disease.

ABF says he is not shutting me out - but he is NOT contacting me.
He says he does not want to hurt me - but he is.
He says he loves me - well I have no answers on that one.

So I have to trust in God to deliver me and to keep me sane at the moment.

I HATE THIS.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
Take my children. They depend on me, but to a degree I source my happiness from them. When they are happy, I am happy. I want to be with them, to be there for them, to help them, to pick them up when they fall. Does that make me co-dependent?
I would say it depends. Can you still be happy, even when they are not? Can you feel good about yourself even in those times when your children are struggling? Enjoying shared happiness with those you love is beautiful. Depending on others to "make" you happy is codependent, and not so different from an alcoholic depending on alcohol.

Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
I am in therapy and I asked my therapist the same question "what is wrong with me that I cant leave ABF" "What was wrong with me that I fought so hard for my marriage when I knew he was in love with her" - I fought for 2 LONG years - he left anyway - my therapist said " it is because you love unconditionally".
This is just my opinion, but I disagree with the therapist on this. I believe that loving unconditionally also includes the ability to let go. Clinging to someone who wants to leave is not unconditional love--it's dependence. I have experienced the inability to let go and it was not healthy or good for me. It hurt me tremendously. I had to learn that just because I don't get what I think I want, doesn't mean there is something wrong with me. It doesn't mean I have "failed." It only means that there is something different in store for me. Acceptance has been the most difficult AND the most rewarding lesson I have learned in life.

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Old 12-10-2010, 10:50 AM
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Thanks LaTeeDa but is one not supposed to depend on your husband or SO in a relationship and have some sort of dependence? Sorry I keep bringing this up but i want to understand it. When i married, I expected committment and so depended on my Husband. Being in any relationship, for me needs a degree of dependance surely? Or maybe i have it all wrong?
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
Thanks LaTeeDa but is one not supposed to depend on your husband or SO in a relationship and have some sort of dependence? Sorry I keep bringing this up but i want to understand it. When i married, I expected committment and so depended on my Husband. Being in any relationship, for me needs a degree of dependance surely? Or maybe i have it all wrong?
Once again, it's not all-or-nothing, black-or-white. There is healthy interdepedence and there is unhealthy codependence. As I see it, the main difference is boundaries, or not having a clear definition of where oneself ends and the other begins. To use an analogy, if the relationship is your sustenance, your dinner, that is unhealthy. If it is your treat, your dessert, it is healthy. Relationships are an enhancement to an otherwise whole and fulfilling life, not a necessity just to have a whole and fulfilling life.

It's also about roles and expectations. To expect someone who is a husband (role) to be dependable is perfectly natural. To expect someone (my XAH) to be dependable simply because I cast him in the role of husband is irrational. It's up to me then to either change my expectations of the role, or remove him from it. I cannot make someone perform to my expectations simply because I have them.

L
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:55 AM
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Take my children. They depend on me, but to a degree I source my happiness from them. When they are happy, I am happy. I want to be with them, to be there for them, to help them, to pick them up when they fall. Does that make me co-dependent?
But they are your children. I don't know how old they are, but it's part of the deal of parenting that you care for them, feel their pain and their joy and carry them in your heart -- and then let them fly when their wings are fully grown.

That's not a healthy relationship to have with another grown adult. Especially if it's a one-way street.
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