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Old 11-27-2010, 04:15 AM
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still here

and not recovered yet.
i guess i am not so different from the alcoholic, in that codependency isn't something we can come out of, with just some advice and understanding.

i hesitate to post, as things are still not right at home , son still abusing alcohol when he has money to. but, i guess i have a right to come for support, as well as others i see here, who have struggled for years with these kinds of problems. i know that everyone here does not expect instant recovery. i do not wish to be berated, please. i know my weaknesses.

i am just struggling with how to recover. seems that the things i have heard and learned just seem to be like smoke -fade away and I can't hold onto them.

yes, i know that things must change. i know he is sick, and that i have to not enable him. i just need to figure out how to maintain my sanity until i figure out what to do next. i have always been too impulsive, and react quickly. often to backtrack.

son is working now. trying to pay fines, to get on his own.

the 12 steps are just not helping me. i dont understand how they can. i pray, and wonder why. i need strength, to keep going. but where to find it.

i just want support. tough times. broken heart. my son, sick and too stubborn to admit it to his self.

i hate the alcohol. i cant imagine what some poor people are going through, right at this moment, in their homes. being terrorized. both the drinker and the family. i am feeling overwhelmed with sorrow at the damage that alcohol does. i hope the person who invented alcoholic beverages is burning in hell. imagine adding up all the damage done- it would be impossible to do.

i read the other day, that codependency is not curable. is that true?
how unfair. alcoholism i can understand why, but why cant codependency be cured? what does that mean, exactly? maybe that was someones opinion here.

i have road anxiety, due to ptsd, and cannot find a close meeting. i have trouble with night driving, and the last meeting i went to, i nearly had an anxiety attack. guess i could try to find a day meeting,see if there is one close by.

just sharing, and wanting to be a part of this place, even if i am not doing all the right things , according to some. i am trying to make the right choices, and not enabling . son is doing all his stuff, on his own. getting to work, etc.

but when the alcohol use happens, i feel like i am getting slapped in the face with the message- my son is going to die from alcoholism, if he does not get help. my heart is broken.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:04 AM
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Hi Chicory,

I don't have much in the way of advice but wanted to reach out (quiet, holiday weekend around here) and send you my love.

I don't think codependency is "incurable" - I've never read anything that says it is. I guess I've seen so much change, and so many miracles in the program that I have a hard time with the "incurable" label. I think recovering from codependency is really hard and the nut of it is this:

"my son is going to die from alcoholism, if he does not get help"

He might. And that is an awful hard thing to have to live with when there is absolutely nothing that we can do to get our loved ones sober. It is heartbreaking.

I believe that we each get one, precious life and you (and I) have ours right in the palm of our hand. Things can get better, I know it because I've seen it and I've experienced it. There is no "right" way to recover and no "right" pace. Face to face meetings can be an amazing source of support and strength - if there's a daytime weekend meeting that might be less daunting I would love for you to find some good group support. Especially at this time of year, things can get really tough and it's great to have a place to escape to.

I know it's hard when you're feeling worn down and I know that there's nothing like the pain of watching a loved one suffer.

Sending you support and love,

SL x
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by stilllearning View Post
Hi Chicory,

I don't have much in the way of advice but wanted to reach out (quiet, holiday weekend around here) and send you my love.

I don't think codependency is "incurable" - I've never read anything that says it is. I guess I've seen so much change, and so many miracles in the program that I have a hard time with the "incurable" label. I think recovering from codependency is really hard and the nut of it is this:

"my son is going to die from alcoholism, if he does not get help"

He might. And that is an awful hard thing to have to live with when there is absolutely nothing that we can do to get our loved ones sober. It is heartbreaking.

I believe that we each get one, precious life and you (and I) have ours right in the palm of our hand. Things can get better, I know it because I've seen it and I've experienced it. There is no "right" way to recover and no "right" pace. Face to face meetings can be an amazing source of support and strength - if there's a daytime weekend meeting that might be less daunting I would love for you to find some good group support. Especially at this time of year, things can get really tough and it's great to have a place to escape to.

I know it's hard when you're feeling worn down and I know that there's nothing like the pain of watching a loved one suffer.

Sending you support and love,

SL x

Thank you SL,

It means more than I can say.
I need that support and strength! It helps me not to feel like I am drowning all alone in my sea of sadness.
Will look for a day meeting. I cannot believe that there are none close. are they always advertised? we had one a few years ago, but it has dissolved. perhaps i will call one of the numbers in the little daily book that someone loaned me there.

love and hugs, back at you,
chicory
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:17 AM
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Chicory my dear, I know that being around a loved one, who is an alcoholic is hell, and I also know that wanting to fix them, it, everything is also hell for us, and we have to handle it as best each of us can.

It is your hands, not anyone from SR or anywhere else, and personally I feel you have done a lot to let your son become responsible for his own care and upkeep. That he still has his drink is upsetting for you, but please don't despair at this.

Stick to your boundaries, tell yourself that you need and deserve good in life and take steps to give yourself the attention you require, love him but love yourself also.

It may be a while yet, even a long time before he accepts the need to cease drinking, so til then leave it in God's hands and try to do what you would do for yourself if he were not as he is.

I have you in my prayers.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:22 AM
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"It helps me not to feel like I am drowning all alone in my sea of sadness."

No way, Jose! You have -great- company in the sea of sadness! The beautiful thing about SR is that just when you think you're all alone in that ocean, you log on and realize how common that feeling is. And it is "just a feeling." A great therapist taught me that phrase a few years ago, when I thought the sea of sadness would swallow me whole. It's a horrible feeling, but it's just a feeling.

Please do call that Al-anon number - we have several members at my home group who don't drive at all and get a ride to meetings. If you explain to whoever answers the phone that you need help getting to meetings, I bet you that they'll help you figure it out. I know how scary those first meetings are - but maybe that one hurdle, if you can get through it, is going to be the beginning of a whole new chapter.

What if, Chicory? We're so used to things going from worse to worse - but what if ... they get ... better? What if you make this one scary call and this time next year life is better. Make the call, I dare ya.

This time I'm sending you love and courage!

SL x
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:27 AM
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And because I'm a raging codie :-)

Al-Anon/Alateen Meetings in Ohio

One more thought - I know that you're close with your daughters. Would one of them give you a ride to the meeting? Just a thought.

x
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:42 AM
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Oh, girls,
If I were not getting ready to leave the house for work, I'd be balling my eyes out, and getting mascara all over my face, at this sweet support that you are giving me this morning!
Thank you Jadmack and stilllearning, for the message that all is not lost- that there is hope, and that perhaps things can get better.
I shall call those numbers, and find a meeting. i do drive, just not at night far distances. day is fine.
God bless you both, for giving this morning.. i needed that support and will carry it with me today. i hope that you have a wonderful day. your kindness is much appreciated.

grateful hugs,
chicory
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:51 AM
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I agree. AlAnon.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:19 AM
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Last time I looked, this was a support forum for F&F with D/A problems.

The first thing we hear is "you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it" so I guess for some, (if not many) you are going to need support until you are able to be ok.

Having said that and having to live with it daily is hard enough... so don't be any harder on yourself. Like others, I stayed in an unhealthy situation much longer than needed. And at times I mentally/emotionally get suckered into wondering if there is just one more chance or one more thing that I can do to change things, or what if I don't something and the worst happens.

I believe awhile ago I posted something like... "if I let go of my qualifier, what will happen to him, shouldn't someone care? " and the main response I got was "why should you care" or "what about caring for your own life" so... I thought about it.

Some will not like this but I keep thinking about Lois Wilson story and how it really helped me to understand what I already knew in my heart.... a person has a problem and they can't see things any other way... she chose to stay and some think she gave up her life for her husband... I see someone making a choice to live according to the person she was... to live out her values and that was life for her... not everyone agrees.

I am not suggesting any one way as the answer... I think the point in alanon is to get back in touch with your own thoughts, feelings, and values and then go from there to make change in your life. For some it means being there, and for some it means distance. Only you can decide.

I stuck with my values and my qualifer decided to leave... it hurts to be parted... it hurts to see him sinking more into his illness and choosing to be alone...but it is his choice. I did what I could. I don't like the outcome (I thought love was supposed to conquer all... right?) But who knows... maybe it is having a positive affect - as I am no longer living with craziness and worry. And he was given a choice he never had to make before....(everyone else enabled him and never challenged him to a sober life, I did, he tried and at least had a choice for the first time in his life)

You are probably off to work, hope the day is not too hard and maybe will talk again soon.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:24 AM
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Chicory, I am a slow learner, and I have had to hit many bottoms in my codependency, including with my 32-year-old AD.

I was so drained physically, emotionally, and spiritually that I knew I had to take my life back, and get out of the front row seat to her addictions.

I'm no longer willing to give her even a sliver of my soul. You will get to that point too when you are ready.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kassie2 View Post
Last time I looked, this was a support forum for F&F with D/A problems.

The first thing we hear is "you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it" so I guess for some, (if not many) you are going to need support until you are able to be ok.

Having said that and having to live with it daily is hard enough... so don't be any harder on yourself. Like others, I stayed in an unhealthy situation much longer than needed. And at times I mentally/emotionally get suckered into wondering if there is just one more chance or one more thing that I can do to change things, or what if I don't something and the worst happens.

I believe awhile ago I posted something like... "if I let go of my qualifier, what will happen to him, shouldn't someone care? " and the main response I got was "why should you care" or "what about caring for your own life" so... I thought about it.

Some will not like this but I keep thinking about Lois Wilson story and how it really helped me to understand what I already knew in my heart.... a person has a problem and they can't see things any other way... she chose to stay and some think she gave up her life for her husband... I see someone making a choice to live according to the person she was... to live out her values and that was life for her... not everyone agrees.

I am not suggesting any one way as the answer... I think the point in alanon is to get back in touch with your own thoughts, feelings, and values and then go from there to make change in your life. For some it means being there, and for some it means distance. Only you can decide.

I stuck with my values and my qualifer decided to leave... it hurts to be parted... it hurts to see him sinking more into his illness and choosing to be alone...but it is his choice. I did what I could. I don't like the outcome (I thought love was supposed to conquer all... right?) But who knows... maybe it is having a positive affect - as I am no longer living with craziness and worry. And he was given a choice he never had to make before....(everyone else enabled him and never challenged him to a sober life, I did, he tried and at least had a choice for the first time in his life)

You are probably off to work, hope the day is not too hard and maybe will talk again soon.
I agree with everything you said Kassie. It is a personal choice. It does not make sense to me that my mother stays with my father decade upon decade and it is not something I would do. But she must stick to her values and I have to respect her for that.

(((Hugs))) Chicory You have my support no matter what you choose.

You will get to it when you get to it, whatever IT is.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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Chicory - I felt sad when I read your post. It sounds as though you've been hit with a wave of feelings - sad, angry, fearful, conflicted, overwhelmed and confused all at once. You're struggling to make things right for yourself and your son while trying to differentiate between what your heart wants to do and what's "right" to do.

I have no wisdom to share, but I hope you find comfort in knowing that at any point in time we do the best we can with the resources we have at hand. Sounds like you're doing your best and looking to get better. I hope you can take time to do something nice for yourself today.

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Old 11-27-2010, 09:52 AM
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Chicory
It is so difficult to be the parent of an A. No one here will (I hope) berate you (and if they do, ignore them).

Like Freedom, I'm a really slow learner too. I've been dealing with my son's disease for 13+ years. It has made me mentally and physically sick. And I had to reach a pretty darn low point before I realized that it wasn't just my son who was at risk.........it was me too. Everyone around me realized it except ME for a very long time.

Recovery for us codies is not unlike recovery for the A. I see so many similarities. And it takes an amazing amount of work and concentration to keep from "relapsing". And even though I feel fairly grounded in my recovery, I relapse all the time. But I can catch myself and get myself back on balance pretty quickly now. Early on, I would "relapse" and stay relapsed for a while until I figured it out (that could be weeks or months!) I felt like I had to start all over again (I felt that way because that's what I had to do!).

If you were closeby, I would gladly give you a ride to your meetings. And I'll bet that there are people who live near you who would gladly give you a ride to your meetings. It's hard to ask (or at least it would be for me) but I'll bet that you'll be surprised at the response when you do ask.

NarAnon/Alanon didn't work for me until I was really, really ready. Now I aim for progress not perfection. And I cut myself some slack when I mess up (which I can do with reasonable regularity but I'm getting better). I don't give up on myself. Please don't give up on you.

gentle hugs
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:39 AM
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Cool

Hey chicory ---

There were a couple of things that just jumped out at me from your OP. These were................:

1) You wrote, "...i read the other day, that codependency is not curable. is that true?..."

2) There semed to be an overall negative feeling to your post; a kinda hopelessnessc, etc...?...... )o:

We;;...............as to......:

1) Perhaps they were speaking as AAers and NAers do....there might be no cure for alcoholism/addiction, but there is recovery (kinda like, I can 'recover' from a broken leg, but that does not mean I can't break that leg again (but I sure do hope I don't.....LOLOL).

2) This one, in my experience, can be a little tricky, but I love what Unity Church says about one of their principles (rules). That would be their Third Principle...: God opperates in the universe according to the law of mind action.

Simply stated The Law of Mind Action could be written as.....: Thoughts held in mind, produce after their kind...or expressed in a variety of ways.....:

A) As a man thinks in his heart, so is he;
B) As you sow, so shall you reap or as you give so shall you receive; or today we might say
C) What goes around comes around.

In my early recovery, I, at times had a very negative (give-up) attitude. I kept looking but I felt like I was standing still.....my recovery goals seemed so far away(no closer than when I had started on this recovery journey.....

At the time, I was very fortunate to have a very practical, logical sponsor. When I got into my little 'snits' she would sit me down and tell me, "Noelle, do shut-up for a minute (kindly stated of course). Stop squinting at how far away your goals seem to be. Do a 180, turn around and see how far you've come.....!!!!!"

So, as my sponsor might say, "OK, Chicory; you go girl....!!! You've come a long way baby.....!!!!!!!"

So, from me also, you've come a long way, Chicory. ...and in case you don't believe me, just go back over some of your earlier posts.........'n keep on truckin'


(o:
NoelleR
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:43 PM
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Dear everyone

It is so wonderful to ahve support like this. I am all choked up about it, and feel very humbled to be cared for. I love you guys. Thank you, thank you, so much.


I called those numbers in the little Courage to Change book that i was given to use. one lady gave me some info about meetings not too far away. actually, one is not far at all. i am kind of excited, for it will probably be a bit larger than the one that i went to before.

big hugs,
chicory

p.s. you gave me strength today. I took hold of my fears and sorrows, and put them away, for today, thanks to you guys. God must love me after all. He gave me this help. I used to think that God worked miracles , by making things happen. Now , i think He does that, but I think He uses us, to help each other. What could be a greater gift , than to love each other, and to care for each other?
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:21 PM
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Courage to Change. I LOVE THAT BOOK!!! I am so glad you have it Chicory! I have to dig mine out (I used to keep it next to my bed but lord there are so many books here I think I put it in a box in the living room). We can share passages if you want (so long as I can find it). Can't believe how excited I am about this. I think it's because you might be going to a meeting. See how infectious how we treat ourselves actually is? It is good to have good, positive influences in our lives.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Courage to Change. I LOVE THAT BOOK!!! I am so glad you have it Chicory! I have to dig mine out (I used to keep it next to my bed but lord there are so many books here I think I put it in a box in the living room). We can share passages if you want (so long as I can find it). Can't believe how excited I am about this. I think it's because you might be going to a meeting. See how infectious how we treat ourselves actually is? It is good to have good, positive influences in our lives.

you are really something L2L.

this is something- I just turned to a page, to share . and the first one i turned to was this-

Today's Reminder

Today I will share honestly about something that has been nagging at me. My life deserves my attention.

"One of the most helpful aspects of the Al-Anon/Alateen fellowship is the opportunity we have to voice our dilemmas, confident that we won't be condemned for speaking frankly.

Living with Sobriety

Wow- how ironic is that? This morning, I shared when I was afraid to, and it was the healthy thing to do! Even tho I was in a dark place, something told me where to go for help- that is progress.

I am so thankful tonight. :ghug3

dig that book out, l2l!

Last edited by chicory; 11-27-2010 at 08:09 PM. Reason: smilie in wrong spot
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:14 AM
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I know I'm a wuss Chicory but I have to admit your last post sent goosebumps up my legs and choked me up till tears welled up in my eyes. I think it's something to do with being gentle with myself. As though there is still something inside of me that tells me I do not deserve to be treated gently and respectfully. You guys really spur me to take better care of myself. I am going to call my insurance tomorrow and see if they will pay for PTSD therapy for me. Thank you again for sharing yourself with me. Now I am off to look for that book!
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:00 AM
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Not doing the right thing? According to who? Forget what anyone else tells you; your opinion is all that matters. Not recovered enough or fast enough? Balderdash. Cut yourself some slack. You've only been a member of this forum for a little over a year. Some of us, like me, have been here for years longer than that and still struggle with some issues. Codependency incurable? Battlestar bullcraptica. I see lots of people here, like me, who are now leading peaceful, serene, happy, and healthy lives despite a few shortcomings that may still need work.

Alanon and the 12 steps not a good fit for you? Find something that is. While I recommend Alanon as an option because it has helped many on this forum, it wasn't right for me. I wasn't comfortable with the face-to-face meetings. Participating on this forum and reading all I could about alcoholism and codependency was a good fit for me and all I needed to turn my life around.

Alanon, the 12 steps, even this forum is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It's not even a one-size-fits-most solution. The right solution for you is as individual as you are.

Please don't judge yourself or your progress on what anyone else here is saying or doing. All that matters is that you are still working towards improving your situation.

It's the work that matters; not the path you take.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
I know I'm a wuss Chicory but I have to admit your last post sent goosebumps up my legs and choked me up till tears welled up in my eyes. I think it's something to do with being gentle with myself. As though there is still something inside of me that tells me I do not deserve to be treated gently and respectfully. You guys really spur me to take better care of myself. I am going to call my insurance tomorrow and see if they will pay for PTSD therapy for me. Thank you again for sharing yourself with me. Now I am off to look for that book!
((((L2L))))

Of all people that I have "met" here, you are among the most "awesome" !

You deserve all the happiness in the world, for that is what you wish for others. You always give much of yourself, to those here who are in need. Thoughtful and intelligent, you are.
Good luck with the insurance tomorrow.

You better be taking care of yourself!

xoxoxo
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