transformyself

AH is on another drinking spree. Oh that's right. It's the holidays. Not that it matters, he drinks massively all the time any way.

The problem is he's drinking around the kids again. I know others here have gone to court to mandate there be no drinking around the kids. I'm scared to death to start that process, all though I think I will consult an attorney. We've certainly talked enough about him not drinking around the kids, there's no reason to do that anymore. He complies temporarily, but come one. He's not going to stop drinking around them until he's dead. Or gets sober.

Here's part of my problem. Right now, AH gives me three times the amount of support that the court would mandate he give me. I know this is true because I filed for divorce August of 2008, with an attorney, and it was determined at that time, based on the formula for friend of the court.

I also don't qualify for alimony, based on the legal guidelines of my state.

I"m struggling so much with this. Realistically, i am afraid of him getting mad and retaliating. that's what I realized today. I'm just afraid of him still. I don't want any ugly court battle. I don't have money for an ugly court battle, but he certianly could. The financial support he gives me is also not court ordered, so he could stop paying me at any time.

That's what I did with the attorney last time, got an emergency injunction on his pay.

I withdrew my petition for divorce because we were trying to reconcile. That, as you know, has not been successful. Instead we are in this limbo land where I am working my butt off to be financially independent, living in a house that is way above my means and reliant on AH to give me money, which to be fair he does regularly. he doesn't try withholding anything or using it against me.

But he is tricky that one. I never know when he'll snap or lash out at me for some resentment he's got brewing. It comes out in ugly ways.

And because he's drinking so often, he's so freaking unstable.

I have to talk to him about this. Have to tell him he can't see the kids unless he comes over to my house and is sober. It makes me feel sick, seriously you guys.

I know I've changed, am getting better at so many parts of this program, but this is killing me today. I feel so powerless, so backed into a corner and it's all because of money.

The other issue is talking to the kids. I want to support them, but he's so nasty to me if he thinks I"m talking to the kids about his drinking. I'll talk to them anyway and brace myself for the backlash

This may be the tipping point. When I think about this honestly, I know it's his freaking problem that he's being talked about or not allowed to take the kids. but my reaction within me is just terror. I wish he were just gone and I didn't have to deal with him anymore, and that makes me ashamed too.

I just want to cry.

brokenheartfool

Life shows us our weak spots. This was my reality to accept and finally start learning about. I am learning to sober up financially, and for me, it is as difficult as for him to give up the bottle.
If the house is above your means, and you could be threatened at anytime by your AH for monies that you are dependent upon, then you might consider scaling back to something you can afford and that he can't have any element of control in.
People don't have control over us unless we GIVE IT TO THEM.
I'm sorry if that sounds brutal. But for me, it was to accept that I too was out of control, and for me, it was financial.
You have power over him if he drinks around the kids, you can retaliate, even if in their best interests.
He has power over you, he can withhold funds as retaliation, and he just might do that.
Take his power away?
One thing I decided to do was to sink or swim on my own. Still waiting to see which it will be, as I'm treading water but time is running out for me on some debts.
But I swore I wouldn't make a deal with the devil--and the devil wasn't him by any means--the devil was my dependence on his money instead of self-sufficiency.
It's tough getting sober on the other side of the bottle too, it's scary.
I don't know your situation of course, just my 2c, take what you like and leave the rest certainly applies here.

escape artist

hi transformyself, we seem to be in the same paradigm, just different sides. I feel your pain, and can only say that boundaries work. if you gave him your boundary that you do not want him drinking in front of the kids, then he needs to respect that. can you enforce it? if so, you must, becoz we all know that the a will do everything they can to overstep the boundary. i am glad to have gotten my kids away from their a father, but as you can see from my recent post where we are with that now....i really do believe though, that there is always an underlying mental issue with the addict, and perhaps you could tell him to get some counseling to get to it. hope this is helpful. ea

barb dwyer

Brokenheartfool wrote: Ba- ZINGGGG!

That nailed it, I think.


I was also in a situation like that a few years ago,
putting up with a drunk and all his bs
because I couldn't afford to be on my own.

I will tell you -
when you decide you'd rather sink on your own
than float on his bribe money
(because you know that's what it is- he's buying your silence)

when you decide
that no amount of money
will substitute for your self-respect....

that's the huge jump you've been searching for.
There it is - gift wrapped and even coming in on a holiday.

I Know because I was there as well.

Meanwhile ... we're here.

You don't have to jump off any cliffs
or go blowin up bridges yet
you have time to plan
and adjust your life
to get ready....

but you know he's going to keep doing it.
you know it will eventually endanger your children.
I don't think you'd have posted what you did
if you didn't already know what you should do.

but you have just defined for us
what your greatest thing to overcome is.

and we're here while you decide.

(((hug)))

transformyself

Thanks Barb, but maybe I' wasn't clear, he's not withholding money and never has, I'm just afraid of it. I always have initial fears with setting boundaries in a healthy way, and this is one of those situations.

ugh, I'm sorry but I'm feeling defensive about the way you're talking to me, all though I bet you're just trying to help.

no, I don't "know" that this is what he's doing
this not only says I'm "for sale," but also that I'm not doing what I know is right. Sorry but this is why I don't post about this issue. he's not bribing me or silencing me. He's providing for his family, and does so consistently.

And this
I am not selling my self respect either! I'm not a freaking doormat or desperately searching self respect! Please. I am frustrated because he's drinking around the kids again. It's a boundary I've had to reiterate.

I called him and gave him the new boundary. He's got to come here and be sober to see them. He agreed and said today he feels ashamed. Yep I"m sure he does. But he'll keep drinking. For now I'll have to keep the kids with me.

barb dwyer

I didn't mean that the way you read it..... no no.

I didn't realize it was this touchy -
I'm sorry I didn't get that from your post,

The way I read the first post -
it was that he was over-paying,
deliberate3ly,
so he could drink ...
that's how it read to me.

I apologize for getting it wrong.
that's all.

that's what I meant by buying silence.

my ex did that.
would work on the car or something
he wasn't court ordered to do

then go off on a tangent
because he believed
he'd "pre-paid" so was allowed to be mean.

that's how I meant that.

I personally think it's great you could call up and make the new boundary.

It took me 23 years AFTER him to figure out how he managed to get hold of me like that.
I was just seeing you as saving a couple of decades I didn't get lol.

theuncertainty

Hi, Transform. First off, big, big hugs. It's rough and there are no easy answers when it comes to our children and their A parents.

The holidays are always an excuse for STBXAH to drink. I am so happy that I don't have to deal directly with that any more.

My situation is not the same as yours. But I know it's a fine line between protecting DS and encouraging him to create/build whatever relationship he can with his A father.

Even if you're not ready to proceed through the courts on the visitation, you can still consult with an attorney to find out what your and your kids' rights are. They'll be able to tell you how you can enforce the no drinking around the kids rule.

DS recently started seeing a counselor specializing working with kids who are going through a separation/divorce. She will be able to discuss alcoholism with him and go over safety planning in a way that STBXAH cannot (easily/credibly) accuse me of turning DS against him. My health insurance covers a great portion of it. It may be something that would be an option in your situation, too.

Hugs, Transform. Wishing you peace and strength.

TakingCharge999

Hugs transformie. I know you moved recently. Have you considered getting a smaller place? I know the idea should be stressful, but I just moved to a cheaper place and it has been a good decision.

In this city they think they are in a Go Cart videogame. I see a car accident daily. Recently involved in one. Transformie, Life is sending you signals. Please don't let something bad happening to your kids, be your wake-up call. That is where this is going. What is your housing situation. Would you be willing to move to a smaller place?

More hugs your way.

FormerDoormat

Although you initially said you were worried about your husband being drunk around the kids, I read your post as saying that you'd like to do something to prevent this from happening again, but you were worried that taking action would cause your husband to withdraw or reduce his financial support. I, too, interpreted your post as focusing more on the financial aspects of setting boundaries than on your husband's drinking. And for what it's worth I didn't find Barb's response to be harsh. It contained lots of good information.

So, question for you. If you didn't have to rely on his support to make ends meet, would you make different choices? If the answer is yes, then are there steps you could take in the short term or long term to become less reliant on your husband financially?

I read a lot of fear (about finances, self-reliance, independence) in your words. Was I wrong?

transformyself

Oh ok thank you Barb, this explains it.

TC I'm not moving agian unless I'm thrown out. I just need to make more money.

And Doormat, I don't know why I'm not explaining myself well, but I'm not. Yes you read A LOT of fear in that first post. Being afraid to take legal action, which I still don't believe will change anything if I were to do that. This morning my brain tells me I was frantically searching for options, being desperate. Mainly, I am tired of dealing with this. I have no other child care options-none-and he isn't capable of being alone with them right now. The worst part is knowing that even if he agrees to not drink around them, that will only last an undefined amount of time. I'm screwed.

No, the worst part is knowing there is nothing I can do about him choosing to drink around the kids.

I'm frustrated by his continued "slipping" back into drinking around the kids. It sucks. Is he ******* ********? I think I was desperate and thinking of getting him court ordered to not drink around them, which might be a relief and might not because guess what? He's going to drink then as well! He's a freaking alcoholic. Nothing can stop him! He wont' stop until he's dead or sober. What a jackass.

This is all about money, and my need to be financially self sufficient. He doesn't withhold money, all though that is what I'm afraid of. He wants the kids to be able to live in this house, in this neighborhood. We made the decision for me to live here and him pay the rent because they've moved so much and have no stability, with us being seperated.

I moved them from our marital home to the rental August 2009. The landlord lost that house to foreclosure but we wanted the kids to stay in this neighborhood and be able to walk to the park to go sledding and swimming and ride their bikes in a safe place. They have friends here.

I recently lost one of my freelance jobs due to the economy-forgot to add that in because I was so mad at AH for drinking around the kids again. He was at his brothers for Thanksgiving and I was stuck at my sisters with no car.

THAT has to change. No more car. No more kids. Period. If he gets pissy or tries anything, I will shift into legal mode, which I why I need to consult with an attorney.

Problem is-divorce lawyers here dont' take probono cases here unless there is domestic violence or homelessness involved. And it's $1K to walk in the door. Oh, they'll talk to you once for free but you can't retain one without the cash.

And I had to stop the kids (and my) therapy too because of financial issues. I am going to approach the school councilors all though those people are already overwhelmed.

Sorry to be snippy everyone. I just need more money. And probably more yoga.

Learn2Live

I don't know if any of my feedback would be helpful but I will put it out there for you anyway T.

I tend to agree. My observation watching friends and family go through this has been that the family courts are good for obligating people legally to pay child support but that's about it. IMO legal action is just going to cost a whole lot of money that is much better spent on expenditures that would directly benefit the children such as saving for college education, clothing, food, etc. It also may create an atmosphere of animosity and downright hatred which is rather difficult to change IMO. Your separation is fairly new to everyone involved so it's going to take some time of trial and error for you ALL to find healthy ways of relating and parenting. He may never get there with respect to drinking around the kids (I am sorry).

Sometimes when I am confronted with feelings like this in response to a situation, I find that two giant steps back is helpful. Sometimes there are more alternatives to situations that we just haven't considered yet. I often have to take a big time-out and quiet my mind before the universe delivers alternatives to me.

I think it is great that you are able to focus on the good he is doing this way. There are just some things people are going to be good at, and things they are not going to be good at. The fact that he is paying support voluntarily is a good sign to me. I have found that when I focus too much on trying to control the outcomes, and when I allow my fears to rule, I end up creating the same situation I was so fearful of and trying to fricking avoid.

I hope something here is helpful to you.

transformyself

Yes L2L this was very helpful
Now I just need to combine this reality with the fact that I can't control his drinking but need to protect my kids.

I just got off the phone with my Elder. He made me laugh a lot and reminded me that all things are possible for those who believe.

Gotta get back into that space..

Learn2Live

Can I ask, those who believe what?

Also:
What do you need to protect them from? (Not being a smartass, this is an honest question). Do you know exactly what things you feel the need to prevent?

transformyself

Not sure if I understand your question, but here is my answer.

This is about prayer, which is essentially an exchange between myself and all our relations. I send out prayers for health, long-life, many children, wisdom, healing, power, humility, honesty, knowledge and many other things. Send it out to all my relations. It's not a one way street. I recieve all those things back. My love, my prayers are received and returned to me a thousand fold.

Together we open up, lift that spiritual veil. The Spirits can hear my prayers, they send me back the same things I'm offering to them. They speak to me, prayers whispered across generations. I have nothing to fear because nothing and no one can hurt me. I have my medicine. It keeps me and my family protected. Even in death, especially in death, because after this life, when we return home, there is no pain, no fear, no shame, just remembering who we are and reunion with our loved ones.

Which leads me to this question
Nothing here on Earth is only what it seems. For folks who perceive with five senses alone I imagine there is great frustration, but to me there are layers of realities, layers of worlds and existences.

My children chose me. They chose their father, as we all did. It's my job to teach them many things, including how to protect themselves from all manner of harms working on this earthly realm. I can take action to prevent them from being in a car driven by someone impaired by alcohol. I can teach them the skills they need to take care of themselves. I can be present with them in the moment, offer them as much stability and love as I am capable of at the time, but I cannot ultimately prevent them from fullfilling their own destiny, whatever that may be.

I don't know if this is helping. Let me say this.

I can do whatever I am capable of to keep them from being harmed by alcoholism or anything else--but ultimately it's a group effort-me, my family, The Spirits, and my children themselves.

Some folks have been offended when I say children are resilient. To me, saying that isn't a dismissal of the damage that can occur in every persons childhood-Lord knows I saw my share of it- or a statement that we shouldn't do all we can to protect them, but rather a level of acceptance of each and every persons fate. And a belief in the power of each persons ability to reach for and find their truth.

Me personally, I am stronger and wiser in many ways than ALL of my friends who had "normal" childhoods. That doesn't mean we should intentionally allow horrible things to happen to kids-or minimize the effects when it does happen. But I've lived firsthand through horrific situations and even though I'm quite screwed up in some ways, I know the power of both spiritual assistance and human constitution. Fortitude.

I do everything I can to keep the effects of many things from totally screwing them up-alcoholism, consumerism, chemicals in the environment and our food. Then, when I've done my best, I let go. Or try to.

It's a balancing act, all of it. I do the best i can to protect my children from harm (and for me that occurs on both a spiritual and earthly level) but I do so while also teaching them they should not live in fear, which to me is the absolute most damaging aspect of being clothed in human skin.

I do what i can, then engage in acceptance. I teach them how to locate and empower their own medicine-which is specific for each person and protects them. I continually re-asses my efforts with my kids, adjust. Work on not beating myself or others up. That doesn't help at all.

These are paradoxes, all of it. Just like childbirth and parenting itself. We care for living beings who are utterly dependent on us, sacrifice so much as women and mothers to give birth to them, raise them up in a good way so they can eventually becoming independent and leave.

Well. Not sure if that helped you at all. I just barfed it out.
So- all things are possible to those who send out prayers for help, then take the time to listen and-perhaps most importantly- actually take up the advice from the spirit realm.
All things are possible when we do what we whole heartedly believe is the best thing for everyone, then release attachment to outcome.
All things are possible when we make a conscious effort to not take action based on fear.

And I feel a need to do my best to protect my kids from physical, emotional, spiritual and intellectual damage. Riding in a car with a drunk driver. Being raised in part by an alcoholic without giving them the necessary tools to combat all the nasty side effects and blows to their self esteem.

The belief that they are unloved. Or victims. From the devestating effects of fear based thinking and living.

Does that answer your question?

Learn2Live

Whoo! I gotta' chew on this a while...and switch the laundry around.

FormerDoormat

All things are possible for those who believe...in themselves. Do you believe that you are capable of taking care of yourself and your children financially on your own? What if your husband were suddenly no longer in the picture, could you take care of your family financially then? I'm still sensing this is the underlying fear.

You mentioned that you needed to earn more money. What steps can you take to earn more today? Tomorrow? Next year? Would eliminating debt increase your comfort zone? How about reducing or eliminating unnecessary expenses? Or would you still need a bigger paycheck to improve your comfort zone?

Taking whatever actions you can today may help alleviate your concerns even though the path towards complete independence may be months or even a few years away.

One of the things that kept me tied and dependent on Richard for so long was the fear that I wouldn't be able to take care of my family financially on my own. So, I became seriously focused on eliminating my debt and unnecessary expenses and saving a sum of money that I felt comfortable with before venturing out on my own. It didn't happen over night; it took two years. But as I began to watch my debt reduce, my savings account grow, and my income increase, I felt less dependent on others and more self reliant and powerful.

That new sense of power led me to believe that I could handle anything that came my way. And I believe my increased self confidence showed in my job performance, and my responsibilities and income increased accordingly.

So, I would say all things are possible for those who believe in their HP and themselves.

HealingWillCome

Hey, Transform. What I was going to say, I think you've already put a finger on after talking with your Elder.

It sounds so simple, but...

Do what you know is right for your kids, in their best interest, which also means taking care of yourself, and....HP will take care of the rest.

It requires hard work a lot of the time, but in the end HP takes care of things. Hugs to you.

gerryP

Hey Transform,

I'm just wondering if maybe putting a deadline to your business making money. Say one year from Jan. 2011 or what is reasonable and if you find you are still not able to be financially independent, then you will get a job that provides a regular pay cheque. Just a thought.

Hadassah

I didn't read anybody elses posts, so if this is a repeat, forgive me. I hear what your saying about the money. You need it to pay the bills, and you don't know what he will do at any one time. I would go to a lawyer and get Temporary Orders. That means that he has to keep on with what he's paying out right now. A judge will sign an order to make sure he does. At that point you can do what you need to do to get yourself where you need to be financially. Hope this helps, I was there this past summer. Save as much as you can right now.I wish I had. H

transformyself

Hadassah thank you but a judge will not order him to keep paying what he's currently giving me, but rather about 1/3 that amount-it's all formulated by the state, or friend of the court-who is not my friend or my childrens friend and oftentimes not even the courts friend.

Also, Gerry thank you as well, my business is fiscally right where it needs to be projection wise- but I still need to make more money. I took a hit recently by losing a freelance job-they're a non-profit and are having really tough times.

I went through my computer last night and found several pieces I can recycle along with three articles I can finish and pitch off. That's good news.

I could also finish the damn book proposal. That's something that I do have fear about, but really now that I think of it, should just freaking do it.

And I've freelanced for long enough to know if I hustle I can bring in the money. The economy here is eviscerated, but I've always been able to hustle work. Now that I'm not out of my mind crazy about AH, that potential is even greater. Hell, I started a newspaper and it's not making me rich, obviously, but it's right where we projected it would be. It gives myself, the layout guy, the distribution person and my partner some cash.


And Formerdoormat, This is a non issue with me-believing in myself. Believing in my HP isn't an opposing belief I don't know if you're saying I'm one of those ,"just believe in the Lord and he'll take care of everything," people because that's hilarious if that's what you're saying.

I have no debt, either. Those are all good recommendations financially and thank you for the support, thanks for giving me more to think about.

The fear isn't about me not believing in myself-but about having to go into a courtroom and fight it out there. I"m going to talk to him about this tomorrow. Either talk about it or write it down haven't decided which yet.

He actually is the one who brought up going to court to hash out the issue, but he was drunk. When he's sober he needs to know that:

*no judge in this county will give him custody (he's got quite a record of drinking and driving and MADD owns this county)

*and that I also don't want to go into a courtroom to hash things out and humiliate him, but I will if he doesn't consistently carry out the terms of not drinking when he has the kids

*and I'll also share my financial plan with him so he knows how I plan to ween myself off the money he's giving me

When he's sober, we actually work together. Problem is, as his drinking progresses, he's less and less sane. Oh he still has his moments or rational, or weeks, when he's had enough and says he's sobering up. I know in time I will be able to communicate with him less and less regarding our kids and their lives-simply because he's an alcoholic with a progressive disease.

You know, you guys are the only ones I can talk to about this? Even at al-anon, I don't get feedback like this. And I used up all my talk about AH with my friends cards years ago with his affair. They don't understand anyway..