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So now I am the bad one?

Old 11-23-2010, 02:55 AM
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So now I am the bad one?

Ok so he phones me and says that he is ok but his divorce is hurting him - NOW after almost 2 years of separation (his wife left for another man - could surely not be the drink as he was working on his sobriety in the last 9 months of their marriage - he said) and 6 months of being divorced, he does not know what he wants, he wants to focus 100% on his kids, that his faith in God is shaky, that being in a relationship with me is putting him under pressure. That his ex says that being in a relationship with me is putting pressure on the kids. I MEAN HOW GOOD IS THAT ONE!!!!! That sometimes his drinking is problematic. That he is stressed at work. That I am putting him under pressure wanting a relationship (Um well we were doing so well on that front until 3 weeks ago so yes, I want answers). That I am pressuring him with all the questions. That he really loves me and feels deeply for me but maybe it is not enough to have a proper relationship with me going forward. That he needs time to heal. That he is sorry that I am hurting. That I need to lighten up and not be so intense. That he is thinking about a lot of things and processing his pain (while drinking) That he will chat to me in a week or so.

I started to cry (I hate that) and said "what about me?". I have given him nothing but 100% support during our time together. He was the one who wanted to make us "official" when I had my reservations. He seemed so very attentive and ran after me when I was not sure what I wanted. He KNOWS I come with children (said he is not sure he can cope with that!!!!!) He KNOWS abandonment is a big thing in my life. How ironic is it that my ex husband KNEW infidelity was a big thing in my life and left for another woman (my Dad did the same) and now that abandonment is a big thing in my life, ABF does the same thing.

I just feel that all the work I did in getting over my divorce and having the OW move in with my XH has completely crumbled and that ABF has just used me. How do they justify all of this? We spoke about ALL of these issues BEFORE I agreed to have a relationship with him. I was guarded, I was cautious and NOW - now when I have given him my heart he simply walks away and that "we will chat in a week or so". I mean how can he phone me and say "I love you but am not sure it is enough?????". Where does this come from. I am battling so much as to what is the "alcohol" speaking and what is him. I am battling as to even knowing WHO he is. I am battling as part of me feels, well at least he is being honest, BUT I am battling because HE has made all the decisions and I must just accept them.

I am so broken. I cant do this. First my divorce now this. What is wrong with me? Everything in me is saying RUN RUN RUN - but I am emotionally exhausted and cling to perhaps what I thought we had. My self esteem is shot - man I feel so pathetic - you would not think I have a GOOD high powered job, three amazing children and people say I look good. WHY the hold on me?????
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:10 AM
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I am sorry that you are in pain.

Possibly due to your abondonment issues you may be a tad needy and clingly.

All you can do is accept what he has laid out to you, he needs his space.

Use this time to work on you, have you read Codependent No More? Been to any meetings recently? Might help.

Keep posting, we are here for you.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:28 AM
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Actions speak louder than words. Especially with alcoholics.

Re-reading your post, I see that his words were what I would want to hear and believe in getting into a relationship. I would want to believe my concerns were being validated and understood.

Yet, his actions don't match his words.
His words: I understand, I will respect your feelings, I am here for you
His actions: I don't understand your intensity, I can't handle your feelings, I can't be here for you.

I'm sorry you are in pain.

Can you do something loving/pampering for yourself today? A pedicure, a bubble bath?

I had to pull my self-esteem out of the gutter. It took time. I discovered I was worth the effort, tho!

One of the tools I used and still use is a book: You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay.

She helped me with the tools I need to re-build my self-esteem, one day at a time. She recommends positive affirmations. She was right on! I had used my own thoughts and self-doubts to tear myself down for years. Time to push out the negative and pour in the positive. One of my first favorites was to put this affirmation on a post it note on my bathroom mirror.

"I Love You and Accept You exactly as You Are!" Repeat it outloud while looking myself in the eyes at the mirror. Repeat throughout the day/week/month/year!

(((hugs)))
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
I started to cry (I hate that) and said "what about me?". I have given him nothing but 100% support during our time together
Alcoholics are master manipulators.

Think of it like he is a fisherman. You are in his "keep net". I suggest you need to jump out the keep net and go and swim around a bit, just enjoying yourself and having a good time without him being the center of your attention. He'll come running like a puppy...
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:05 AM
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I guess what gets to me the most is that I RESISTED getting involved with him as I knew about his drinking, but he said he was in recovery. We have enjoyed a very passionate relationship and I so looked forward to the text messages and the e-mails and phone calls when he was away (He travels a lot). We certainly were not in each others pockets because of his extensive travels and I always looked forward to "our weekends" without the children. Gradually he has become more and more distant. Just two weeks ago he took me out to the most special dinner. It was like old times, we had so much fun and then I did not see him for the next 48 hours and it was supposed to be "our weekend". He was away the whole of last week and arrived back in town last night.....so I guess the call today is to tell me subtly that he is staying away. What does he mean, we will chat in a week or so? Is that his way of saying it is over. I mean I told him that a few weeks ago...it is the "I love you" thing that keeps me on my toes and thinking positive.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:33 AM
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Hi JW, I'm sorry you're feeling like this. I can relate and I hope things get better for you. It's so confusing when you recieve mixed messages. Pelican summed it up with the A's actions not matching his words... .Pelican also mentioned a book, Louise Hay, You Can Heal Your Life. It's a great book and it's been my 'spiritual bible' for 20 years (have only just started reading it again after a long time though 'cause I need to go back to basics...learning to love and accept myself...thanks Pelican, a timely reminder for me...).

In regard to your abandonment issues JW, there's another book that comes to mind which has helped me a great deal. It's called Radical Forgiveness. In this book, there are worksheets in which you're able to reframe the entire situation (any situation) from what they describe as the 'victim standpoint' or 'old paradigm' to the spiritual standpoint which includes surrending to the HP and forgiveness. These worksheets help you see the spiritual lesson in the situation by helping to challenge core beliefs; noticing similar stories from the past, which have been recreated in the present and seeing the perfection in it; forgiveness and gratitude. I've done a few of these worksheets on my abandonment issues as well as other stuff and they've helped me in so many ways! I'm now okay being on my own and that used to terrify me. It doesn't mean I still don't love my ex, but I am able to deal with it better and feel okay with me.

There is a Radical Forgiveness website and there are worksheets you can download and a list of other Radical Forgiveness books too...I recommend this book to everyone! Take care JW...one day at a time....
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:43 AM
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I can feel the pain and confusion in your post.

I don't mean to sound harsh but when I read your post it seems to me like, in this case, his words and actions are kind of matching up. He is not going to move further with this relationship. I'm sorry that hurts and is in contrast to how he started the relationship but chasing him down is going to add to your pain. He is in no way fit for a relationship right now and even he sees it. He is an alcoholic. He is already committed - to alcohol.

He is saying "I love you." to make himself feel better. He doesn't have to own up to anything. Does this look or feel like love though? It doesn't to me. You deserve the real thing, from a man that is not a basket full of dysfunction and confusion.

What if you took all this energy and, instead of going round and round over what he is thinking, focus on you. Your wonderful self and how you can love and cherish yourself. It will be worth it.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:28 AM
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Ok so I have booked a full body massage at the local Spa. I really am going to try and learn to love me although that sounds so completely foreign to me.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:01 AM
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It's as easy as 1, 2, 3:

One-- he's an alcoholic. How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? Their lips move.
Two--go to an Al-Anon meeting; at least six before deciding if it is for you.
Don't try, do it.
Three-- see one and two.

Good luck.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:29 AM
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Loving Yourself

Love your neighbour as yourself
Is what we're taught to do.
When you give to others, don't forget
The love that's due to you.

Loving yourself begins
With being your own best friend,
With kindness and respect
On which you can depend.

Love yourself for just being you
And self esteem will grow.
Praise yourself for the things you do
Self confidence will surely follow.

**********************************:ghug3********** *****************
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:03 AM
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I quit trading one dysfunctional relationship for another when I was in enough pain.

Until then, I just kept throwing myself in the proverbial brier patch over and over, getting cut up and bloody.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
Ok so I have booked a full body massage at the local Spa. I really am going to try and learn to love me although that sounds so completely foreign to me.
That is a good idea!

What I was talking about though was doing the work to figure out how to respect yourself enough that you will make choices that lead you to healthy relationships.

I always picked the dysfunctional man (or let him pick me). I married one. There is one person in my life that I respect and she seems to have things figured out. I used to feel sort of sorry for myself that she ended up with such a 'good guy.' Like it was just luck - HA.

In the last year I've looked at that dynamic more closely. I've known her all her life. I look back at her relationships. It was not that the unhealthy men did not approach her, or even that she didn't get involved with them. The difference is that once she saw how unhealthy they were, or the relationship was, or once it was not meeting her needs in a significant way....she let them go. She experienced some heartache but she moved on. She has, at the core of her being, the ability to know what is in her best interest, to know what is her responsibility and what isn't (she has strong boundaries!!), she has the ability to make difficult decisions without mental gymnastics. She had heartache but she didn't have self doubt. She was sad when a relationship with someone she cared about, invested in, shared good times with didn't' work out but it didn't affect her self worth. For one thing - she ended them long before the emotional investment became so monumental. I had to find my own 'bottom' before I left. She has no idea where her bottom is because she has no plans on ever even glimpsing it She isn't saving anyone or looking to be saved. She was happy with someone that complimented her. Someone that added to her life, that brought her joy. She didn't fundamentally think she did something wrong when someone didn't meet that criteria, or that she wasn't enough this or that. She didn't hang on to the wrong match, or chase them down to force the issue, or tear down her own boundaries to protect them. The way I see it she found her 'good guy' because she herself was a very healthy person. She was emotionally available and yet not needy. She also had the ability to choose. She didn't hang on to the one's that didn't work out as if they were the last man on earth. She was available for the good guy.

I don't do or have any of that. That is what I'm after. That is how I see loving myself.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:06 AM
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What is wrong with you? You donít know how to take care of yourself. You try to look after everyone but you. Then the alcoholic takes advantage and THEN HE BLAMES YOU! It is what they do.

I know that I evangelize for alanon way too much; however, it is truly a wonderful program. When I read your story it reminds me so much of me and so many other people like us. People can only take advantage of us when we let them. We need help to learn how to set healthy boundaries.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:33 AM
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A lot of what everyone is saying here is true.

Think of it like he is a fisherman. You are in his "keep net". I suggest you need to jump out the keep net and go and swim around a bit, just enjoying yourself and having a good time without him being the center of your attention.
What does he mean, we will chat in a week or so?
I can translate this:

I'm going to go do all the things I want to do and THEN I will come back to you. Don't go anywhere.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by goldengirl3 View Post
I'm going to go do all the things I want to do and THEN I will come back to you. Don't go anywhere.
And in the meantime, to make absolutely sure, I'll throw just enough bait into the keep net so you dont get any ideas about jumping out ("That he really loves me and feels deeply for me but maybe it is not enough to have a proper relationship with me going forward")
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
I really am going to try and learn to love me although that sounds so completely foreign to me.
It is at first. But the more you tell yourself what Freedom said (I read that book and did the same thing--except for me I said it to a picture of myself as a child because my mother was so abusive to me). It feels weird at first to think we are valuable when we have been shown we are not. However, we also get so comfortable with someone telling us this we actually begin to believe it. Then when someone comes along and tells us how wonderful we are-it feels like we have finally found someone who loves us.

I strongly believe, for me, I needed to heal my wounds from previous relationships before I could really have a healthy relationship--and I am not just talking about a romantic relationship--but even friendship.

You are worth it JW. Remind yourself everyday that you are worth it.

Hugs!
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:10 PM
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And in the meantime, to make absolutely sure, I'll throw just enough bait into the keep net so you dont get any ideas about jumping out ("That he really loves me and feels deeply for me but maybe it is not enough to have a proper relationship with me going forward")
Exactly!

I used to think of my ex as being like my cat. He seemed to take notice when the bowl was empty or almost out of food. But if the bowl was always full,(me at his beck and call) he was comfortable.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:56 PM
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Phew. Where to start.

1. I have ordered the book "You can heal your life". I will read it this weekend as I am alone (my children are with their father).
2. I want to go to a local al-anon - just have to try and check that the OW who my XH left me for is not still going. I simply WONT be around her.
3. Thumper. I so want to be that woman (your friend) you describe in your post. I can only imagine the confidence to live like that.
4. I am making a list of all the things that were NOT always ok in my relationship with ABF - so I can gain perspective. I tend to romanticise the good times.

Some things relating to 4 include:

- We always did what he wanted to do, which was generally stay home and watch sport on TV.
- Getting messages - can you phone me?
- There was a function that I really wanted to go to. He said we would if he did not have his kids. He did not have his kids and decided to stay home watching sport and drinking. I went out on my own.
- Always (when drinking) checks his mobile phone compulsively.
- I always had to arrange things. When he invited me to dinner at his house, I was expected to bring the dinner.
- He used to text me at 10, 11pm at night when travelling with "are you awake" followed by text messages. These have since stopped altogether.
- He used to text me during the day - this has stopped as it puts pressure on him.
- He took a lady friend out to dinner twice (work colleague) but could not do that for me (I was away at the time)
- He used to play VERY rough with my one son and hurt him the one time. I went ballistic and told him to never ever play roughly with him again.
- Complained that I never initiated anything - now that I do - I pressure him.

Am still working on the list........
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:25 AM
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Are u dating my ex? Lol.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:39 AM
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Hey Goldengirl - only if you live in South Africa :rotfxko
They all seem to follow the same pattern tho.
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