Update: he is going to meetings had a talk with our son.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Update: he is going to meetings had a talk with our son.
After A left the other day, he apparently tried to go to his brothers house, most likely cried to him about how I was being unreasonable.
But, something new happened...The brother, who usually backs him up in all things told him he was in the wrong, and that he would have to adhere to the same boundaries that I laid out if he were to go and stay with him there.
He also told him he was acting like a child, and that with sobriety comes real life, which A has had the luxury of avoiding for 12 years.
He told him, "no."
A has been staying with a friend, who is recovery supportive, and he went to a meeting a day since his brother told him what he did.
I think the echo of what I said coming from his own family member woke him up a bit.
Yesterday he called and wanted to meet and see our son for unch. I agreed, and we met at a family restaurant.
A asked our son if he could talk to him about something for real.
My 5 year old is so cool.
A asked him if he knew that his daddy was having trouble with some things, and he said yes.
A told him that sometimes he has what we will call "thunderstorms", and that it makes him shy and nervous. He said he sometimes cant talk, and sometimes gets so scared that he has to lie down, or he might get "weird".
My son said he knows when that happens.
A told him that he wants him to know that it is not his fault, and he knows it is happening, and that he is going to see a doctor to help him understand how to help it stop or change.
My son said, "thanks for telling me that, daddy. I did not understand it. Will you tell me when the thunderstorm comes, then I wont be confused."
I was so proud.
A did great, and he was sincere. He was previously opposed to telling his son that he had this issue, seeing it as weakness. I assured him that the real strength is in being there and addressing it.
My son has been more open since then.
A explained his fears to me about meetings, a general reluctance to accept his need for help. HE said he is working on letting himself be weak, so he can get stronger.
He also rescheduled the psych appointment(which I dutifully checked up on, to confirm that he did. and he did.)
I told him, if all stays on course he can come back after Thanksgiving, and we will be at his mothers with him.
It's progress.
But, something new happened...The brother, who usually backs him up in all things told him he was in the wrong, and that he would have to adhere to the same boundaries that I laid out if he were to go and stay with him there.
He also told him he was acting like a child, and that with sobriety comes real life, which A has had the luxury of avoiding for 12 years.
He told him, "no."
A has been staying with a friend, who is recovery supportive, and he went to a meeting a day since his brother told him what he did.
I think the echo of what I said coming from his own family member woke him up a bit.
Yesterday he called and wanted to meet and see our son for unch. I agreed, and we met at a family restaurant.
A asked our son if he could talk to him about something for real.
My 5 year old is so cool.
A asked him if he knew that his daddy was having trouble with some things, and he said yes.
A told him that sometimes he has what we will call "thunderstorms", and that it makes him shy and nervous. He said he sometimes cant talk, and sometimes gets so scared that he has to lie down, or he might get "weird".
My son said he knows when that happens.
A told him that he wants him to know that it is not his fault, and he knows it is happening, and that he is going to see a doctor to help him understand how to help it stop or change.
My son said, "thanks for telling me that, daddy. I did not understand it. Will you tell me when the thunderstorm comes, then I wont be confused."
I was so proud.
A did great, and he was sincere. He was previously opposed to telling his son that he had this issue, seeing it as weakness. I assured him that the real strength is in being there and addressing it.
My son has been more open since then.
A explained his fears to me about meetings, a general reluctance to accept his need for help. HE said he is working on letting himself be weak, so he can get stronger.
He also rescheduled the psych appointment(which I dutifully checked up on, to confirm that he did. and he did.)
I told him, if all stays on course he can come back after Thanksgiving, and we will be at his mothers with him.
It's progress.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
It is progress and any progress is better than none in my book. They call that 'reasonable hope'.
My feedback is: I agree with the others. I'd need some sustained effort at going to meetings before I'd pull back a boundary or two. And is he really acknowledging that he has a real problem with himself? Or doing this to appease you. Going to meetings in and of itself doesn't mean they decided to take recovery seriously.
Just questions to ask yourself.
My feedback is: I agree with the others. I'd need some sustained effort at going to meetings before I'd pull back a boundary or two. And is he really acknowledging that he has a real problem with himself? Or doing this to appease you. Going to meetings in and of itself doesn't mean they decided to take recovery seriously.
Just questions to ask yourself.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Did you mean Thanksgiving of next year? JK...
I know you love him buffalo. from my experience, I let AH move back in after living with his bimbo for 4 months. I had filed for divorce, which motivated him greatly.
After he moved back in- not sober or going to meetings of course, things gradually escalated back into madness. It was worse than ever.
I hope you take this time to keep working on your beautiful self. It's time well invested, I say..
Hugs!
I know you love him buffalo. from my experience, I let AH move back in after living with his bimbo for 4 months. I had filed for divorce, which motivated him greatly.
After he moved back in- not sober or going to meetings of course, things gradually escalated back into madness. It was worse than ever.
I hope you take this time to keep working on your beautiful self. It's time well invested, I say..
Hugs!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
well, transform, the recovery supportive friend has a wife who is not as happy as the friend is to have him there, LOL..
That is not my problem, I know...But, I also need the little help he is able to offer right now, having taken on a temp holiday job to make ends meet.
Also, I have to take into account that even if he is doing something to appease me, in the initail stage of it, that is way more than he ever did before.
Appeasing me was never on As list of things to do in the past.
He almost exclusively would say, "oh, well...then I guess Ill just have to go to another home.." if you know what I mean. He is clear and sure that he does not want to go back to a life of floating, and he does not want to put alcohol back into the matrix of how he copes in the world. He is clear and sure that he wants to be here, with our son, and he wants to take part, to do his share.
The having to prod a person like a teenager is difficult, and I may get to the end of that, at some point.
i reinterate to him every week that I am open to us parenting our child seperately, if he and I do not fit together. I do not feel like he is here out of obligation. He is feeling out sobriety...and,
He is struggling with a mental illness that causes him to be lethargic, cranky.
I am weighing all of this. I can see that some of his resisitance is just old patterns hanging on. I can see what is a teenager bucking authority and what is a person having true problems, it is about 40/60 there, respectively.
Ultimately, it is about whether I feel like my ground is solid, and I do.
Am I being conned? I am not able to say I am not being conned entirely. He may be saying what I want to hear, doing what I want to be done, but...He is doing it.
I know he is a baby in so many ways, but his willingness to try to be more of a man is more than before, and I do not want to put him on the street longer than necessary in order to prove a point, have him go back to old means out of fear, frustration, or defeat.
I feel like if he gives a little I give a little.
One thing we talked about is this:
I asked for an in depth response to why he was resisting meetings in the first place. He talked about how, even if you know you should start working out, you dont want to. Even if you know it is good for you, you may not want to go to the gym, have sore muscles, do the work...(i am trying to do these things)
HE said, but, if someone forces your hand, and it causes you to do those things, you still know that you feel better, you know it is the right thing. He says he knows meetings are the right thing, and he does want to go, but he is working with a part of himself that is rebelling and resistant. He also says that once he goes, he does feel better, he does gain something from it, and he feels silly for having resisted.
I am feeling this out, and I am not overwhelmed with fear of not having him here, but I do need to take into account a few practical things, as well as his level of communication and what I will call humbling, which is not much by normal standards, but by his standards and by what I have known of him historically, is a lot, and it is growing.
NOw, as far as my standards go, I know that they are on much less of a sliding acale than they have been.
I spoke to my sister last night. She is in recovery from alcoholism that flared up from her relief work in Haiti. She became overwhelmed. She spoke to my A for a few minutes. She kind of grilled him. She is a therapist and a life coach. She is that type of person, and what she discussed with me was that, based on her work, and her own experiences, my A is someone who had a very low bottom. She had a high bottom. She did not **** herself, or lose her family. She just got out of control.
She feels that he is progressing on his own timeline, and that no...he does not seem scared enough to lose his sobriety, but that low bottoms often come out of active alcoholism very shell shocked. He is coming out of 12 years of severe, heavy, at times life threatening consumption.
I told him I would come 50%, as long as he did his 50. WHen he did not meet his 50, I pulled back. He got the message. He woke up to what degree he can at this moment. I will do it again, if necessary. And when I hit my bottom, I will be done with it, if it comes to that.
I am a work in progress.
Thanks for the reality checks, and I am vigilant and aware. You all help me more than you could possibly know. Even if it seems like I am losing ground, I am definitely three steps forward...1/2 a step back.
My steps back are getting more and more like peewee steps, and my strides forward are greater than ever. For the first time, I feel like it is our world and we both live in it, instead of "its As world, I just live in it."
Even if it is not perfect, it is moving forward.
I have been accused of being too forgiving, even naive in my life. I take no offense, LOL
I am grateful for all of you, and please don't feel the need to stop questioning me. What you all offer comes in, and if I can't hear it now, it is still in there, and it comes back when I can hear it. This has happened for a few years here at SR.
That is not my problem, I know...But, I also need the little help he is able to offer right now, having taken on a temp holiday job to make ends meet.
Also, I have to take into account that even if he is doing something to appease me, in the initail stage of it, that is way more than he ever did before.
Appeasing me was never on As list of things to do in the past.
He almost exclusively would say, "oh, well...then I guess Ill just have to go to another home.." if you know what I mean. He is clear and sure that he does not want to go back to a life of floating, and he does not want to put alcohol back into the matrix of how he copes in the world. He is clear and sure that he wants to be here, with our son, and he wants to take part, to do his share.
The having to prod a person like a teenager is difficult, and I may get to the end of that, at some point.
i reinterate to him every week that I am open to us parenting our child seperately, if he and I do not fit together. I do not feel like he is here out of obligation. He is feeling out sobriety...and,
He is struggling with a mental illness that causes him to be lethargic, cranky.
I am weighing all of this. I can see that some of his resisitance is just old patterns hanging on. I can see what is a teenager bucking authority and what is a person having true problems, it is about 40/60 there, respectively.
Ultimately, it is about whether I feel like my ground is solid, and I do.
Am I being conned? I am not able to say I am not being conned entirely. He may be saying what I want to hear, doing what I want to be done, but...He is doing it.
I know he is a baby in so many ways, but his willingness to try to be more of a man is more than before, and I do not want to put him on the street longer than necessary in order to prove a point, have him go back to old means out of fear, frustration, or defeat.
I feel like if he gives a little I give a little.
One thing we talked about is this:
I asked for an in depth response to why he was resisting meetings in the first place. He talked about how, even if you know you should start working out, you dont want to. Even if you know it is good for you, you may not want to go to the gym, have sore muscles, do the work...(i am trying to do these things)
HE said, but, if someone forces your hand, and it causes you to do those things, you still know that you feel better, you know it is the right thing. He says he knows meetings are the right thing, and he does want to go, but he is working with a part of himself that is rebelling and resistant. He also says that once he goes, he does feel better, he does gain something from it, and he feels silly for having resisted.
I am feeling this out, and I am not overwhelmed with fear of not having him here, but I do need to take into account a few practical things, as well as his level of communication and what I will call humbling, which is not much by normal standards, but by his standards and by what I have known of him historically, is a lot, and it is growing.
NOw, as far as my standards go, I know that they are on much less of a sliding acale than they have been.
I spoke to my sister last night. She is in recovery from alcoholism that flared up from her relief work in Haiti. She became overwhelmed. She spoke to my A for a few minutes. She kind of grilled him. She is a therapist and a life coach. She is that type of person, and what she discussed with me was that, based on her work, and her own experiences, my A is someone who had a very low bottom. She had a high bottom. She did not **** herself, or lose her family. She just got out of control.
She feels that he is progressing on his own timeline, and that no...he does not seem scared enough to lose his sobriety, but that low bottoms often come out of active alcoholism very shell shocked. He is coming out of 12 years of severe, heavy, at times life threatening consumption.
I told him I would come 50%, as long as he did his 50. WHen he did not meet his 50, I pulled back. He got the message. He woke up to what degree he can at this moment. I will do it again, if necessary. And when I hit my bottom, I will be done with it, if it comes to that.
I am a work in progress.
Thanks for the reality checks, and I am vigilant and aware. You all help me more than you could possibly know. Even if it seems like I am losing ground, I am definitely three steps forward...1/2 a step back.
My steps back are getting more and more like peewee steps, and my strides forward are greater than ever. For the first time, I feel like it is our world and we both live in it, instead of "its As world, I just live in it."
Even if it is not perfect, it is moving forward.
I have been accused of being too forgiving, even naive in my life. I take no offense, LOL
I am grateful for all of you, and please don't feel the need to stop questioning me. What you all offer comes in, and if I can't hear it now, it is still in there, and it comes back when I can hear it. This has happened for a few years here at SR.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Oh, good. That is the starting point. I'm wishing you both all the best in your continued recoveries.
I have no idea what to say about the reluctance to going to AA. It sounds like he really needs to keep that up to be successful. Have you guys ever gone to one of the AA meetings that are open or for spouses? One of the other women in my Alanon group said her and her husband attended that weekly meeting right up until he died (of non-alcohol related causes). He then attended his own AA meeting and she attended Alanon. She spoke so highly of it that I thought I'd share. I never went myself - we didn't make it that far.
I have no idea what to say about the reluctance to going to AA. It sounds like he really needs to keep that up to be successful. Have you guys ever gone to one of the AA meetings that are open or for spouses? One of the other women in my Alanon group said her and her husband attended that weekly meeting right up until he died (of non-alcohol related causes). He then attended his own AA meeting and she attended Alanon. She spoke so highly of it that I thought I'd share. I never went myself - we didn't make it that far.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 293
Children are amazing! We just have to give them the appropriate info & tools. If we watch, listen & observe them, we adults could learn a lot.
Take your time! Recovery is often a long, arduous process. My prayers to your family! Big hugs to everyone!
Take your time! Recovery is often a long, arduous process. My prayers to your family! Big hugs to everyone!
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Just figured something out
I rarely ask myself this anymore with my AH because i based my interactions with him on myself-my boundaries, my understanding of what's going on.
There's no more shaky ground. I think I don't live in that space anymore where I wonder if I should be trusting him because I trust myself.
does that make sense?
Am I being conned?
There's no more shaky ground. I think I don't live in that space anymore where I wonder if I should be trusting him because I trust myself.
does that make sense?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
We are all works in progress indeed!
As for your sister's information and the 'shell-shocked' theory, I can go with that to a certain extent.
I guess I always draw on the fact I was a single mother of an 8-year-old when I got out of rehab, and it was do or die for me.
I had to be proactive in my own recovery, bring home the bacon, and parent. There was no significant other because I left the EXAH behind for my own safety and sanity.
No one applauded me for paying the bills, showing up to work on time, or getting the trash cart to the curb on pickup day.
That's what functioning people are expected to do.
I think you're getting a good footing in your own recovery, and I wish you nothing but the best.
As for your sister's information and the 'shell-shocked' theory, I can go with that to a certain extent.
I guess I always draw on the fact I was a single mother of an 8-year-old when I got out of rehab, and it was do or die for me.
I had to be proactive in my own recovery, bring home the bacon, and parent. There was no significant other because I left the EXAH behind for my own safety and sanity.
No one applauded me for paying the bills, showing up to work on time, or getting the trash cart to the curb on pickup day.
That's what functioning people are expected to do.
I think you're getting a good footing in your own recovery, and I wish you nothing but the best.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Freedom,
A keeps talking about that getting no applause thing. He is not stuck on it, but his mom keeps telling him you dont get a medal for choosing to live in reality with the rest of us.
I have to hold my tongue. It can be maddening.
But, I do want to give him positive feedback for doing something that he thought he may not survive.
I do think it is hard work.BUT... It is no harder than me keeping my head together and focused and doing what I have needed to do to raise our son all the while he was on the bottle.
But, I have to keep my eyes on my own paper, besides, no one responds well to a competitive tit for tat kind of argument. He is slowly seeing with his own eyes how much work it takes to raise the child. He will get it. or not.
Many of my friends have perfectly sober husbands or partners who still act like children in many respects, when it comes to real life stuff or kids, etc...
I am gathering information and keeping my head up. Thanks, everyone
A keeps talking about that getting no applause thing. He is not stuck on it, but his mom keeps telling him you dont get a medal for choosing to live in reality with the rest of us.
I have to hold my tongue. It can be maddening.
But, I do want to give him positive feedback for doing something that he thought he may not survive.
I do think it is hard work.BUT... It is no harder than me keeping my head together and focused and doing what I have needed to do to raise our son all the while he was on the bottle.
But, I have to keep my eyes on my own paper, besides, no one responds well to a competitive tit for tat kind of argument. He is slowly seeing with his own eyes how much work it takes to raise the child. He will get it. or not.
Many of my friends have perfectly sober husbands or partners who still act like children in many respects, when it comes to real life stuff or kids, etc...
I am gathering information and keeping my head up. Thanks, everyone
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I hope you didn't think I was trying to minimize all that you have had to do because that wasn't my intention at all!
I can truly appreciate everything you have had to do because even though my 22 year old's father has been sober over 33 years now, he was an absentee parent in every sense of the word.
I can truly appreciate everything you have had to do because even though my 22 year old's father has been sober over 33 years now, he was an absentee parent in every sense of the word.
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