Buffalo66

Yes, finding peace...
This is my confusion,
And yes, He definitely does know what I want. He has heard me.
So, don't waste my breath?
Just say, this turned out to be not what I had in mind.
He knew what I had in mind, because he told it to me, and I agreed.

This reminds me of once, a few years ago, I was writing a letter to him, when he wanted to come home to live, and I was listing out my boundaries, and it involved monogamy. I was listing and listing what I expected from a monogamous relationship, and my friend that I confided in was looking at me with disbelief..
She said,
"honestly, if you need to write a 2 page letter detailing what monogamy means, what is inappropriate for a committed relationship, etc...something is realllllly wrong.
He knows what monogamy means, ****. Stop spelling it out. He knows."

Am I getting warmer? LOL

Buffalo66

OK, coyote..."active recovery" is very simple. I am putting that in my toolbag.
He is simply not active in it.

He went to one of the best treatment centers in our state.
I am sure they went over active recovery versus dry drunk.
I am sure he knows all this. Why do I have to spell it out?

Thanks

FindingPeace1

buffalo - you got it! Your friend is a wise person! You DON'T need to spell it out. What would be helpful is to let go of the expectation/hope that he "gets it". Allow him to be where he is at. Embrace what is so (and make choices accordingly!)

~~~
"Active Recovery" is obvious from great distances,

That gives me GREAT comfort.
I have a fear that I will leave my husband and I will have been wrong. He wasn't lying about what I thought he was, he wasn't drinking as much as I fear he was - he was a great, emotionally fragile, but nonetheless great guy and I lost him because I was too judgmental and nit picky and expected perfection.
HAHA!
Active recovery is obvious from great distances.

Ahhh. I can't fool myself. I'm safe. What I have in my AH is definitely NOT active recovery.
'nuf said.
thanks, coyote.

Thumper

My xah had been to rehab. He had the tools. He was now knowledgeable about alcoholism. He knew what he needed to do. He knew what I wanted. He had all the right words. Had all the good conversations. Agreed with all the reasonable things with regards to parenting, recovery, etc.

And then he did exactly what he was going to do - which never matched all our reasonable agreements and expectations. He said those things to keep the peace. He said those things because they sounded good. He said them to maintain the status quo.

I stopped talking. I stopped listening to what he said. I stopped waiting to see what he'd do, or not do, next.

I started watching what his actions and his behavior were, in the present - at that moment, and began basing all my decisions on that. It was much easier to figure out what the 'next right thing' was when I started doing that. So far, it has never led me wrong either.

It was hard at first. I had this written at work, in my purse, in the cabinet where my toothbrush was, etc. as a reminder. Ralph Waldo Emerson - What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

Phoenixthebird

This is a good thread for me!

I have shared the same thoughts as Breakingglass "I keep thinking that if he loved me enough, he would stop and go back to the man I married. I have to stop thinking this way. I didnt' do anything. yet I'm the one who feels the guilt just because I want a better life for myself."

I found the post of Campsurf very helpful "There is only one rule to detachment.. survival. When my own world came tumbling down, I wanted to blame.. to run.. to not feel bad.. but I could not.. then I wanted to give the pain reason.. and there really wasn't any.. it was what it was.. and acceptance was a bitch.. so I crawled and clawed my way back to being me... and took the best advice an old timer had at the time..
she said; Save Yourself.. and I wondered, what was there left to save? Marriage was gone..Money was gone.. House was gone.. my desire to take care of me was gone...depression and I were holding hands daily and my anger closed in one two choices.. you know, once your life gets to that place where it comes down to two choices...it seems that is the way it will always be.. and that marvelous place called a bottom ain't so quaint... it rocks your soul into saving itself because deep down...it knows it has to go on.. and I feel on my knees because I was done.. done hurting." I even printed out the poem "Someone to Walk Us Home" to keep for myself.

I have started to take the advice found in the post of FindingPeace1 "I so get where you are stymied because I have always felt like a mature relationship is one in which the two partners discuss what works and what doesn't. They lay the cards on the table. They say what they want, express their feelings and find compromise. So, if I don't TELL him, then I am not living up to my side of the bargain. Ah ha. BUT. The truth is, most of us in relationships with drinkers have TOLD and TOLD and TOLD to no end. They KNOW what we want. They aren't doing it because THEY DON'T WANT TO. So, the rules are different with alcoholics. That "mature communication" thing is right out. It doesn't work because they can't/won't communicate that way."

I've heard somewhere in my steps of recovery if I need to repeat myself to my dry drunk husband more than three times, than I'm not requesting something, I'm looking for attention!

I'm planning on moving out of my current situation, and I can already hear my DDH saying, "But I didn't do anything"! My response will be Yep! You're Right!

********************************************* ******************

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can change; And wisdom to know the difference!

uprwestsdr

Is he an alcoholic or addict who is using?

If this is the case, I suggest walking out the door as quickly as possible. I'm a recovering alcoholic in my 20th years so I do know something about alcoholics.
This is an alcoholic: self-centered in the extreme, enormous ego with low self-esteem, dishonest, unreliable.

It's important to understand that YOU are powerless over anyone but yourself.
Here's a truth: A leopard doesn't change his spots.

Any situation that causes you to feel this bad is the wrong place to be.

LaTeeDa

That's exactly it, what everyone else said. You don't need to spell it out for him. Let him figure it out (or not) on his own.

And, pardon my presumptuousness (is that even a word?), but you do need time and space to work on your own stuff. Time and space to figure out what you need from a relationship, and whether or not he is able to give it to you. It's really difficult to figure out, or even see things clearly with him in your face.

With my AH, I wasn't ready to divorce him, but I couldn't go on living with him. So, I told him I needed 6 months to figure out what I wanted. Sure, I was watching his actions to see if he would pursue recovery, but I was not telling him--you need to do this and that. Frankly, I was exhausted from telling him what to do and being blamed when he did it but it still wasn't "enough" for me. I finally decided to let him do whatever he chose to do and just watch from the sidelines. Then you can decide what YOU want to do......

L

coyote21

I'm putting this in my own tool box. Very nice.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

keepinon

We ALL know what active recovery vs. half hearted appeasing bu%$@hit looks like.But thanks Coyoyte for giving us the words!Sometimes I need to hear it explained. Wow. a 2 page letter on monogomy...yikes. Maybe you need to hear someone say this..you are justified in whatever decision you make, you have tried as hard as you could, you deserve to be happy, joyous, and free if you are willing to work your own program. Let go or be dragged, honey.

Learn2Live

This is an AWESOME thread! Thank you everybody for sharing. I am in awe of your words, so intelligent, thoughtful, insightful and caring.