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Old 11-16-2010, 10:39 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
craven, it could be that he already knows this and will use it, or has used it to shut down any communication. just something to consider.
This bears repeating. It was definitely true in my case. He knew which screws to turn and when things got critical, he didn't hold back. He actually admitted it at one point and that also helped me think of things a little differently. They aren't always quite as helpless and wounded as we have envisioned. They are adults.........looking out for themselves. We better do the same.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:42 AM
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I eventually got really really ticked off and I think that helped too. In the end I had to accept that my xah was just not going to understand but I couldn't be held hostage by that.

Yeah, this too. I had to get mad about him (my ex) using tears and emotions to hold me to him. What kind of relationship is that? The Stockholm Syndrome?
Anyone here old enough to remember that raise your hand!
LOL
I think I read it here, alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
as a recovering alcoholic, i can tell you i used emotional blackmail whenever i felt it necessary to keep the sick status quo.

maybe i was projecting a little craven in my last post.
i will try to stick to "I" statements.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post

However your ABF chooses to recover or IF he chooses to recover is his business and his business alone.
I hear what you're saying, I really, really do. But, I have to be honest here, I DO want him to do therapy/recovery program. I also want my cellulite to go away, but it never will, despite the running, dieting, pilates, etc.! I think I have to be honest with myself and say 'Yes, this is what I want'. If he can't/won't give it to me then that is fine. But, I at least have to be able to admit it to myself, because for so long I denied that ABF has these issues. So, for me to articulate it, even if I'm the only one who ever hears it, it sets things right in my head. Does that make any sense at all?


Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
Also, I'm wondering what you think your conversation will achieve. Do you expect him to react? Be moved by your words? Again, (and said gently) this is an attempt at control, whether overt or not.
No, I don't expect him to be moved by my words. I expect him to get defensive, change the subject, turn it back around on me, or some other tactic! I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out, if it's OK for me to just keep repeating my mantra: 'I will not be in a relationship with someone who chooses not to investigate his weaknesses and flaws via a professional help or a recovery program of a substantial lenght of time, at least 6 months to a year', despite the fact that he may not ever accept it. BTW, in my heart, I am perfectly fine with him not accepting it. It is the insanity of having to say the same thing over and over again that is stressing me out!!

I've got to calm down, right!! I know. ABF and I are having 'a talk' tonight and I am so nervous. I just want to get it over with!

Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
Establish your boundary, once, and then walk away. There will be bluster, denial, accusations, etc. If he needs more detail, you can simply state that you won't even consider reconciliation until he's had a year of recovery. Then you step faaaaaaar away from the alkie, and "let go and let God".
This is a nugget of great advise that I am going have tatooed on the palm of my hand so that I'll never forget it!!

Thank you, noday, your responses have helped tremendously!! :ghug3
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by craven View Post
but I still get really upset when I think that my actions could cause him pain.
To me, this comes from a very deep-seated need to avoid at all costs the Bad Guy Mantle. I know because I've run from it all my life. I've always wanted to please others, to make them happy, and of course, I don't ever want to cause anyone pain. Unfortunately, in the search for what is right for me, I came to realize that I'd have to be the Bad Guy to someone....to my XAH who still blames me and all women for the woes in his life, to my stepson who probably blames me for walking away and leaving him to fend off his drunk father alone....

There will always be someone who will be made unhappy by my actions, and usually it's someone close to home. I choose to accept that I'll be someone's Bad Guy in the pursuit of my own happiness, and I'm totally ok with that.

I sense that you're on the road to that place right now.

(and perhaps to reinforce your resolve, you can ask yourself if your ABF ever agonized this much over causing you so much heartache as he drank his booze down)

Originally Posted by craven View Post
It seems utterly dreadful to have to explain why I want to break up to a 41 YEAR OLD PERSON!!
FindingPeace is right. You don't HAVE TO explain anything. You can simply state "I'm done. Finished. Finito. Fini" and walk away. If he needs a break up manual, then he can go search for it online.

You may feel as though you "owe" him an explanation, but in truth, this is a burden you have placed on yourself. You don't have to bear it.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:45 AM
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thank you, FindingPeace!:ghug3
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
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It is the insanity of having to say the same thing over and over again that is stressing me out!!
The great thing is you don't have to.
If you are saying it more than once or twice, you are saying it for you, not for him. He doesn't want to.

I totally totally get where you are coming from.
I wish wish wish my AH would accept himself and his flaws so we could move along.
I wish he could be honest.
I wish he could be vulnerable.
But, he can't right now and may never and all my wishing is giving me and him stress.
The most loving thing I can do is accept what I need is not what he wants to give and to move along.
peace
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
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(and perhaps to reinforce your resolve, you can ask yourself if your ABF ever agonized this much over causing you so much heartache as he drank his booze down)
excellent point noday.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
To me, this comes from a very deep-seated need to avoid at all costs the Bad Guy Mantle. I know because I've run from it all my life. I've always wanted to please others, to make them happy, and of course, I don't ever want to cause anyone pain.
Oh yes!!! This is me! For sure. Thanks for illuminating!

Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
(and perhaps to reinforce your resolve, you can ask yourself if your ABF ever agonized this much over causing you so much heartache as he drank his booze down)
I never thought about it that way!


Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
FindingPeace is right. You don't HAVE TO explain anything. You can simply state "I'm done. Finished. Finito. Fini" and walk away. If he needs a break up manual, then he can go search for it online.
This cracked me up!! So TRUE!!!!

I never thought about it that way!


Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
You may feel as though you "owe" him an explanation, but in truth, this is a burden you have placed on yourself. You don't have to bear it.
This is so humbling. Thanks for helping me shift my perspective to a more healthy place!!
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
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It is the insanity of having to say the same thing over and over again that is stressing me out!!
And, the definition of insanity is doing the SAME thing OVER and OVER again, expecting different results.

Now, as an alcoholic, I drank to stop the pain and depression, I did it over and over expecting something else to happen besides pain and depression.
It was only after I stopped drinking that my medication could start working on my depression and I could deal with the pain.

Also, as a codependent, I talked and talked and talked, waiting for the exact right phrase to come to me to get my ex husband to quit using.
Yelled, screamed, cried, pouted, ignored, anything but deal with my problems with his drinking.
Once I started taking care of myself, everything else fell into place.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by craven View Post
This makes so much sense to me!! But, theuncertainty, how do imagine you will finally, officially, break up? If STBXA is, like mine, unable to really hear me b/c of his addiction, then how do you make it clear to them that you are breaking up? It seems utterly dreadful to have to explain why I want to break up to a 41 YEAR OLD PERSON!!
STBXAH still doesn't hear me. He still doesn't get it. I am still trying to come to grips with that. DS and I left him over 2 years ago. He moved in with another woman 1 year ago. I filed for divorce this summer and he did not understand why; he got incredibly mad as a matter of fact, but that's another issue. In his alcohol-warped world, he was entitled; in his mind, I was going to keep on being his wife, letting him see our son while he's drunk, keep believing that he was 'just renting a room' from his GF, and keep being his scapegoat for all the things that are going wrong in his life. He's 44 years old and I swear our 6 yo is more mature than he can be at times.

Originally Posted by craven View Post
So, for me to articulate it, even if I'm the only one who ever hears it, it sets things right in my head. Does that make any sense at all?
It makes complete sense.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FindingPeace1 View Post
You can want him to go, but that is YOU wanting HIM to do something. YOU want HIM to understand why he drinks the way he does.
There is no cheese down that tunnel.

But, he has every right to decline to do what I want.
Amen, Sister FindingPeace!! Can I get a witness?!?!?!

Originally Posted by FindingPeace1 View Post
I don't know if you're like me, but I feel like I could DEAL with it - smoking, drinking, shopping addiction, porn - even cheating (which hasn't been a problem for us) if he would just LOOK AT IT and try to work on it! AHHHHHH!
DITTODITTODITTO!

But, I(we) know that he has to do the looking, not me(us)!!

Originally Posted by FindingPeace1 View Post
And I can say it is a deal breaker.
And I can love him even as I leave.
So simple and beautiful. And true!!
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
We are doing good today but it truly is one day at a time. And, it is difficult for me to admit this, but if we did not have our daughter I'm certain I would have been long gone. My love for her wasn't enough to make me stay. My love for her and my daughter was-- I literally couldn't leave when every fiber of my being was saying run, run!
Thank you for sharing this, Cyranoak.

Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
Lastly, the only successes I've ever had in recovery have been when I've kept my focus on me. If I do that, I find I'm a far better husband, father, son, brother, and friend.
Stay in my business, right?
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
I cannot and will not be in a relationship with someone who is actively drinking or not in an on-going recovery program of some kind. The choice of whether or not to drink is, of course, entirely yours to make; however, I'm just letting you know what I can and cannot accept for my own life.
I really like the way this version. Thank you, suki.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Babyblue View Post
I need someone who takes action about a serious issue affecting their life.
YES!!!!!

Thanks, babyblue
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:56 PM
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Where you are in this relationship is not easy. Yes this talk/boundary setting could help him to seek recovery. Or it won't. So in the meantime, just figure out what you need and keep the focus on you. Do not try to manipulate threaten or suggest anything to the all knowing Gods (As) because they have it all figured out already. They will all come around in their own time or not. Some sooner than others. I did learn one thing when I set my boundary. He did seek recovery. He felt backed into a corner although I didn't back him up there. He did it to keep his daughter. I don't care what the reason was, a sober father has to be better than an active one. However, in the end, take the alcohol out of the *sshole and you have a sober *sshole. At least that was my experience.

I hope your meeting goes well. And what I mean by well is that you walk away feeling empowered and good about yourself. Whatever the outcome, it will be the right one. If it doesn't go well, meaning you go back to some of your old habits and patterns which are hard to break, it's okay too. This is a learning process, baby steps. Everything is a lesson and we will be presented with them over and over until we get it right. I am getting better with lots of practice.

Peace
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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Oh do I so (think I) know where you are right now Craven. It is so very difficult to take care of your SELF and your OWN needs when you are so worried that doing so will hurt someone else! The only way I have managed to do it is in ANGER in response to something they do. I wish I could say I am more advanced than this but honestly, I'm not. For me it boils down to survival: It becomes something between ME and THEM, LIFE or DEATH. It's like I AM the frog-in-the-pot but I have to find a way to SAVE MYSELF. And anger is what does it for me. And JUDGMENT of them keeps me out. Not sure how other people have done it.
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