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I don't know if I made the right decision. It is killing me.

Old 11-12-2010, 09:38 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Well, if you feel the need to do it, then do it. Don't expect much to come from it though. All we can do it give your our own experiences in this area. Other than that, you will do whatever you want to do. Good luck.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:51 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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This is a man that has went through rehab, drinks Vodka before getting in the shower in the morning, takes alcohol with him everywhere, has detoxed several times because he knows he has a problem, had his partner tell him his drinking was a deal breaker, had to have the ambulance called for him at work, and is having multiple ongoing seizures.

Yet you think he doesn't know he has a problem. That he is some how unaware to all the damage alcohol is causing him and that you will say the right words that will turn on the light and he'll set down the alcohol. Or that you and your love will be so powerful he will choose it over the alcohol.

I'm not being condescending. We have all been there. I was there for years. It is magical thinking. They know. They are making their choices. As incomprehensible as it is people choose alcohol over their health, their partners, their children, every day.

He knows he is an alcoholic. He knows he is sick. He knows you love him. He knows he may lose you. There is nothing you can say that he doesn't already know. He will make his choices.

You can only take care of *yourself* so instead of driving down there consider reading more here. There is a ton of great reading up in the sticky section. You might look at the merry-go-round one. Consider going to the library to get the book already mentioned. Call a friend or your mom to talk. Journal.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:44 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Dear jluebs you wrote "Anyways... he came to me again, saying that he messed up, and needed to detox again. So I agreed to help him through it. But this time he had just started a new job and could only do it over the weekend. So he stopped drinking Friday after work, and I spent the weekend with him detoxing. It was a lot easier for him this time. He had to go to work Monday morning, still with the shakes. I got a call from him later that night that he was in the hospital. He had had a seizure at work, and they called an ambulance. The doctor said he had grand mal seizures, and that he should see a neurologist. I asked if he told her that he had just quit drinking, he said yes. But I'm not sure if I believe that. He was put on a medication to help the seizures not come back, but he needed to see if he had a brain tumor or lesions that were causing the seizures. I was/am convinced it was because of the withdrawals."

I'm not going to give you any advice or recommendations. I'm only going to state what happened to me. I know medical doctors take grand mal seizures seriously. I suffered a grand mal seizure in April 2009. Grand mal seizures have two stages: the tonic phase, which tends to last about 10 to 20 seconds where loss of consciousness occurs, and the muscles suddenly contract and cause the person to fall down; and the clonic phase, where the muscles go into rhythmic contractions, alternately flexing and relaxing, with the convulsions uusually lasting for less than two minutes. My 35 year old son found me in front of my computer unconscious and convulsing. He called the EMT and I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. I ended up being hospitalized so the doctor could run all the necessary tests. My tests consisted of a neurological exam that tested my reflexes, muscle tone, muscle strength, sensory function, gait, posture, coordination and balance. I had blood tests taken to check for problems that could be causing or triggering the seizures. I, also, had an EEG and a MRI. They found nothing. However, after about a week I was released with a prescription for the anti-seizure medication and my driving privileges medically provoked. Most states have licensing restrictions for driving for people who have suffered seizures.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

*******************************:ghug3************* *****************
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:52 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I feel like I have to have a talk with him about this. I have to at least try.
jluebs, I TOTALLY get you here. I've felt this and done it too. That is what is in your heart and you have every right to do this. I hope he hears you and I hope he does something to help himself. Please just take care of yourself and don't change your mind about going to Al-Anon. As much as HE needs to hear things, YOU do too. (((hugs)))
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
jluebs, I TOTALLY get you here. I've felt this and done it too. That is what is in your heart and you have every right to do this. I hope he hears you and I hope he does something to help himself. Please just take care of yourself and don't change your mind about going to Al-Anon. As much as HE needs to hear things, YOU do too. (((hugs)))
Thank you! You are the best. Shortly after writing that post, I called him. He answered and said 'What?!' - very angrily. He said 'I'm at work.' I said, 'I'm sorry, I thought you were already off.' He said 'Well, what do you want?' I said, 'Can I come down and talk to you today? I just need to talk to you.' He said 'No. No, I don't think so.' Then I said 'Okay. Goodbye.' And I felt awful afterwards. I sent him a text saying 'Please call me after you get off work. We need to talk, even if it's just over the phone.'

He called me a few minutes later. I said 'Hey.' He said 'What's up?'. I said that I just really needed to talk to him about everything. He said 'go ahead.' His tone was very cold. I said 'First of all, I don't understand why you are so incredibly angry with me.' He said 'I'm not angry.' I said 'Well the way you acted on the phone call a few minutes ago and the voicemail you left me yesterday seem to make me think otherwise.' He said 'No. I don't have anything to be angry about.' I said 'Okay....' He said 'What else?' I said 'Well I want to talk about your drinking. Whether you want to keep drinking or if you have decided you want to quit.' He said 'Okay. That is a valid question. But I don't think I am ready to discuss that right now.' I said 'Okay. That is fine. I just want you to know that I am sorry that I had to give you that letter. I'm sorry for the way I left. And it was terribly difficult for me to do, but I had to do it. I have been doing some research (he chimed in 'of course you have.') and the way you are having the seizures now suggests that you are very unhealthy and the more you drink the more you are putting your life at risk. And I don't want you to die. If you decide you want to quit, I will be here for you. I will help you find a place that can help you even though you don't have any money. I will be here to support you. I don't want to this to be the end of us, that is not what it's about for me. I am just concerned about you and I love you.' He said 'Okay. Anything else?' I said 'No. I guess that is all I wanted to talk to you about....' He said 'Alright.' I said 'Will you call me sometime when you are ready to talk about this? You can call me anytime and if you want me to come down to talk to you, I will.' And he said 'Sometime. Sometime, maybe.' And I said 'Maybe? Okay. Well, I love you.' And then he hung up.

Yeah, it didn't go great. And maybe I made things worse, I don't know. But I do feel a little bit better. I made it clear that I loved him and that I was going to support him. And now the ball is in his court. And though I still feel terrible, I feel a little better knowing the ball is in his court. And that I have made it clear my feelings. I only hope he will make the right decision, and that he will see if he chooses to keep drinking, he is the one losing out on everything, including me.

Thank you again to everyone. This has helped me a lot. I am still planning on going to an Al-Anon meeting tonight.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:24 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Good for you jluebs! I know that must have been really hard! I know I would have literally been shaking like a leaf to have that conversation! To even dial the phone!

So now you do not feel like your decision is killing you? Maybe you are feeling a little better? You have done the right thing by telling him you think he needs help. Now remember, his sobriety is HIS responsibility. Not yours.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:24 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Honey - how long have you been with this guy?

What an earth does he do as a job?

This is not a relationship. At the moment you are his carer. And I doubt you are qualified to do this and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

You should be out having fun together - not listening or witnessing him having seizures. Thats not fair on you at all in any shape or form.

Don't sell yourself short. The relationship may not be over. Perhaps when he 'gets recovery' and has some decent sober time behind him you can reconnect.

Take lots of care of you
xx
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:45 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Get to an Al-Anon meeting as soon as possible...

Your initial decision was the right decision in my opinion and your need to talk was simply a manifestation of your inability to let go, or a desire for drama, closure, or both, just made things worse. Please ask yourself what is it about you that makes you "need to talk."

Staying with this man, and I guarantee this, will be the absolute worst decison you will have made in your life. You will never top it, and you will waste years of your life miserable and dealing with it. Years you will never, ever, ever get back.

Something that frustrates me about me is that there are healthy women in this world-- I know some of them! Why am I not attracted to them!?! If you are the same as me, I'm sorry. I am well over 40 years old (closer to 50 than 40) and lost a quarter of my life to an alcoholic. IT WAS MY FAULT. I COULD HAVE ENDED IT AT ANY TIME. You are setting yourself up to do the same with your "need to talk," and everything that goes along with that need.

As to your paragraph I quoted below, it isn't about him, it's about you. Who cares what he will lose? I care what you will lose if you stay with him. The attitude reflected below says that you still want him to change so he'll be "worthy of you." Dangerous thinking. I know, because that's how I used to think. Looking back I now realize I was no more worthy of her than she of me.

As to his choosing to drink, he isn't choosing to drink, he drinks. He's an alcoholic for God's sake! Do you think dogs choose to bark, or birds choose to fly? Dogs bark! Birds fly! It's what they do.

It's not about him, it's about you.

Be strong. You are strong. Be smart. You are smart. Learn about yourself. There is much to learn. Allow yourself to do the right thing.

I say this with care for you in my heart. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Be well,

Cyranoak

Originally Posted by jluebs View Post
Yeah, it didn't go great. And maybe I made things worse, I don't know. But I do feel a little bit better. I made it clear that I loved him and that I was going to support him. And now the ball is in his court. And though I still feel terrible, I feel a little better knowing the ball is in his court. And that I have made it clear my feelings. I only hope he will make the right decision, and that he will see if he chooses to keep drinking, he is the one losing out on everything, including me.

Thank you again to everyone. This has helped me a lot. I am still planning on going to an Al-Anon meeting tonight.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:48 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Good for you jluebs! I know that must have been really hard! I know I would have literally been shaking like a leaf to have that conversation! To even dial the phone!

So now you do not feel like your decision is killing you? Maybe you are feeling a little better? You have done the right thing by telling him you think he needs help. Now remember, his sobriety is HIS responsibility. Not yours.
I was shaking, and so was my voice! I was so not prepared to talk to him at that moment, and to talk to him while he was being so matter-of-fact and cold. But I did it. I know I have done the right thing. I doubt that I did it in the right way, maybe I could have done it differently and more sensitively, but I know I did the right thing.

I am feeling a little better, but I still feel terrible, of course. I feel now though that at least I reiterated how I felt, and gave the next step clearly to him, that I can attempt to start to focus on other things at the moment and just wait to see what happens with him. I know it is his responsibility. I just didn't want him to feel that he was alone, and I think that I have made that clear. Thank you - to everyone, but especially to you, Learn2Live, you seem to hit it right on the head with me.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:53 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
Your initial decision was the right decision in my opinion and your need to talk was simply a manifestation of your inability to let go, or a desire for drama, closure, or both, just made things worse. Please ask yourself what is it about you that makes you "need to talk."

Staying with this man, and I guarantee this, will be the absolute worst decison you will have made in your life. You will never top it, and you will waste years of your life miserable and dealing with it. Years you will never, ever, ever get back.

Something that frustrates me about me is that there are healthy women in this world-- I know some of them! Why am I not attracted to them!?! If you are the same as me, I'm sorry. I am well over 40 years old (closer to 50 than 40) and lost a quarter of my life to an alcoholic. IT WAS MY FAULT. I COULD HAVE ENDED IT AT ANY TIME. You are setting yourself up to do the same with your "need to talk," and everything that goes along with that need.

As to your paragraph I quoted below, it isn't about him, it's about you. Who cares what he will lose? I care what you will lose if you stay with him. The attitude reflected below says that you still want him to change so he'll be "worthy of you." Dangerous thinking. I know, because that's how I used to think. Looking back I now realize I was no more worthy of her than she of me.

As to his choosing to drink, he isn't choosing to drink, he drinks. He's an alcoholic for God's sake! Do you think dogs choose to bark, or birds choose to fly? Dogs bark! Birds fly! It's what they do.

It's not about him, it's about you.

Be strong. You are strong. Be smart. You are smart. Learn about yourself. There is much to learn. Allow yourself to do the right thing.

I say this with care for you in my heart. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Be well,

Cyranoak
Thanks, Cyranoak. And I totally get what you are saying. Except that you imply that alcoholics can never change. I know they will always be alcoholics, but recovery and a healthy lifestyle is possible. I know it is a longshot. But I have dealt with this before, my grandmother was an alcoholic and it affected me greatly. But for the last ten years she has been sober and healthy. She made it. I recognize everything you are saying, and you are right; however, I am not quite ready to give up on him. I do not want my life like to be like this, but if there is a glimmer of hope, I am going to hold onto it for a little while. I am not going to let this consume my life. The next few weeks/months? Maybe. But I am not quite ready to give up on him. I believe in people and that they can change. But I also realize that a lot of people don't. And I need to give him that chance. Right now is too soon.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:53 PM
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I just wanted to say that you have shown an amazing amount of strength and courage in the last couple of days. I know it is incredibly hard and confusing and you are doing great.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:26 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Wink You made the right decision for yourself, no doubt

Hi! I went out with someone similar.

This guy saying "what else?" ... is VERY HOSTILE to me. I would NEVER talk to someone like that. That is RUDE!! I wouldn't even talk like that to a stranger. That's NOT normal.

I was in A LOT of pain when this happened to me but I have a feeling you will mourn and heal very soon.

Therapy has been great help to me. I have a history of abandonment and in the end it was not about the addict but about WHY ON EARTH I believed he was attractive in the first place.




If its of any help, it has been 2 years since I went No Contact and broke up. Recently I was shown a picture where my EX appeared with someone else. Everyone was drinking and it was the same bar we went to, before I realized I was NOT with some social drinker but with an ADDICT that would hurt WHOEVER and do WHATEVER for his alcohol.

This ex is still drinking and its not a surprise because he is an alcoholic. That is what he does. Drink and not give a damn.

The only thing that changed is that I am no longer crying at night listening to his rants, his false accusations, his distorsions of reality, convincing him not to drive at 3 AM when its freezing outside,well, putting up with his EMOTIONAL ABUSE as if I had no value.

I am no longer being used as a doll without feelings only useful for sex. Sorry to be so blunt but after a while here we learn addicts do not have relationships, they take hostages.

My life is not perfect now but please stay away! staying in contact only prolongs the suffering.

All the best
PS check out this link
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:14 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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jluebs I admire your strength and courage. I had to giggle about your voice shaking because I so relate and it reminded me of me Isn't it weird how something that is supposed to be a loving conversation has the feeling of confrontation?

I recently was in the same position as you seem to be in, that is, I felt a sense of duty toward someone very dear to me who had been harming himself with alcohol and crack cocaine for about ten years straight. I could not turn my head. So, I did what I could to "help" him. I HAD to do it and so I did. Why? Because that was what was in my heart to do, those were my values. But I came from a place of strength, not codependency, not sickness, so I was able to build and maintain healthy boundaries and able to conduct my life mostly unaffected. It was a good test for me to see how far I had come and to practice some things. And that sounds like where you might be, that is, in a place of strength even though having to deal with someone who is so obviously sick. So glad.

So how was the meeting? Was it comfortable for you? Hope you are well. Thanks so much for sharing!
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:41 AM
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No matter what he said about not being angry, your boyfriend's actions said otherwise. His responses to you during your phone conversation with him were hostile, detached, and defensive. You have offered your boyfriend help, and his words and actions clearly say that he is not interested in the type of help you are offering him.

It may be very enlightening for you to ask him just what, if any help, he wants from you for his drinking problem. He may claim he has no problem, his problem is under control, he's not ready to seek help yet, or that he just needs you to accept and love him exactly as he is. All of this will be useful information for you because each answer says that he is not willing to give up drinking--even for you.

Understanding where he's coming from may help you decide if it's healthy for you to stand by his side in an attempt to save him while he's prepared to do nothing. And while you're figuring all this out, Alanon and this site are precisely the kind of help you need to take control of this situation.

You do have control. Figuring out in what areas you do is the key.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:10 AM
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Addicts basic fear is rejection caused by their lack of self esteem.
You left him, rejected him so he's lashing out.
What you did by leaving was fantastic, as much as is hurts (and oh boy does it hurt), you will find sanity and he may just find sobriety from your act of love.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:21 AM
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I know what you're going through

I know exactly how you feel. I am a recovering alcoholic and I was in a relationship with a woman that was also in recovery. For a period of time we had, what I believed to be an open and honest relationship. Then one day, she started drinking again. This disease is very progressive, and within days she was consuming unbelievable amounts of alcohol - suffice to say, she's been in and out of black-outs for the past three weeks. My entire support group suggested that I "back off" and let her do her thing. Conceptually, I understand the process that an alcoholic must go through before they are ready to surrender. That does not change the fact that I love her and am desperately afraid of what she might do to herself. For some time, I took it upon myself to go over to her place and take care of her - literally try to make her see that she was risking everything by going down this dark path. Instead, I just go egg on my face - over and over. It's been heartbreaking. Like mine, your significant other simply is not the same person once he or she has alcohol in their system. They will say or do anything to protect their disease - a lot of these things are devastating to hear from someone you love.

I applaud you for your strength and hope you can continue being strong. It's been the most difficult thing for me (even harder than getting sober). I think to myself, "What's the harm in reaching out and letting her know I love her." Unfortunately, every time I've engaged, I've gotten sucked into her madness. Really, the only way I know now, is to completely detach - for myself and for her. It's so darn hard, but it's the only way.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jluebs View Post
I believe in people and that they can change. But I also realize that a lot of people don't. And I need to give him that chance.
I think this is a wise choice, as it sounds like you're being pretty realistic. Navigating the line between love and taking care of yourself is an extremely difficult thing to do. I have learned not to make quick decisions... by making them and regretting it. But I've also learned that if I don't look after my own best interests, no one will.

I wish I had given my aexh that chance. He begged me, and I said no. The truth is, the outcome would have been the same-- six years later he is not ready to let go of his addictions and face life, not by a long shot. He would have been trying for my sake and he would have failed. But maybe we would both have had more peace about our breakup that way.

Good luck. You seem self aware and no matter what happens, I think you will be all right.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:38 AM
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I am glad you found SR, and that you are going to Al Anon.

Take care of you, and don't forget that letting go is sometimes the most loving thing we can do.

I was living with my exabf, he was pretending to be sober, sneaking and drinking before and after AA meetings, and who knows when else. When I told him I could not live that way, he showed me the door. It is almost a year, and he is not drinking, he is working on recovery, and we are not together because I truly believe that without the distraction of our relationship and the work it would need to get us to a better place, we both can recover better on our own. I still love him and I miss him, but so what? We both have work to do. I never want to feel the raw pain that I felt in those early days ever again. Love is not enough, and when they stop drinking, things do not miraculously become all better.

If we are meant to be together again someday, then we will be. I leave that to my Higher Power.

Keep reading and posting; glad you are here.
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