More denial, more legalese... send in the clowns!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 77
More denial, more legalese... send in the clowns!
So, last time we chatted my AW refused to go to rehab, against the recommendation of a forensic psychologist. She's now started seeing an addictions counselor, which I view as a positive step.
About a week ago I get a zinger from her lawyer stating that because she's seeing an addictions counselor, the result is that she's stopped drinking completely since the middle of October and as a result is now a fit mother and would I now please get the hell out the house?
Right dude, I guess I'm hallucinating when I see her walking around the house openly drinking as hard as ever, argh!!
Anyway, her latest communique via her lawyer to my lawyer had him actually displaying a change in facial expression (he's the most stone-faced person I've ever met). He also said some words of the four letter variety that I've never heard him say!
The gist of the latest message is that I must vacate the family home within seven days. This being, no doubt due to her newly-found alleged sobriety. And the threat is that, If I refuse to leave, she will leave with the children.
My first reaction was, OK, let's urgently apply for interim custody and maintenance so that I secure the kids legally at least up until the time of our first divorce court date, earliest in two years' time. (The interim custody application must be done right on first attempt, as there is no appealing it once it's established.)
But no, this is contrary to the spirit of mediation in family law matters which apparently we must follow. So, the forensic psychologist has liaised with AW's addictions counselor who says that he wants to know the facts of her addiction, and they must be supplied by me and our child-minder, as the two adults who are most regularly exposed to her alcohol consumption patterns. There will also be a legal representative present in the meeting, in the role of mediator, who is to be an objective third party.
In essence he wants a formal confrontation in the presence of various people. He wants us to cite incidents of her drinking, observations of the changes she undergoes when drunk and how we dealt with the situation at the time. Based on her reactions and what we have to say, he will make a recommendation for either in-patient or out-patient rehab, with an initial non-negotiable detox as an in-patient of at minimum ten days. According to him, she must do rehab one way or the other.
If she refuses to do this, and does indeed just up and leave with the kids, I'll have to apply for an urgent court interdict to get the kids back into the family home.
I know all of these things are positive steps to bringing her addiction fully out into the open but inside I'm screaming with frustration. Her unshakeable denial is costing me time and huge amounts of money. Our considered legal approach is in stark contrast to her lawyer's "rabid pit-bull" style, the tone of which, my lawyer assures me, is looked at very seriously in the courtroom, should it get to that.
I feel like I've had enough of this crap now. I sometimes wish my lawyer would just send them a one page diatribe of muckraking and allegations, of the variety I regularly receive from them. It feels like we're constantly on the back-foot with them, and that they are setting the pace all the time. Admittedly, our softly-softly approach has resulted in her acknowledging that she has a problem with alcohol, but it just feels counter-intuitive to the attack signals my brain is sending me.
We have a documented admission of her addiction made by AW in consultation with the forensic psychologist, I just don't get why we can't skip all this other stuff and go for a court decision. Do we really need an army of experts to deal with what is a straightforward case of denial? Maybe someone here can advise?
About a week ago I get a zinger from her lawyer stating that because she's seeing an addictions counselor, the result is that she's stopped drinking completely since the middle of October and as a result is now a fit mother and would I now please get the hell out the house?
Right dude, I guess I'm hallucinating when I see her walking around the house openly drinking as hard as ever, argh!!
Anyway, her latest communique via her lawyer to my lawyer had him actually displaying a change in facial expression (he's the most stone-faced person I've ever met). He also said some words of the four letter variety that I've never heard him say!
The gist of the latest message is that I must vacate the family home within seven days. This being, no doubt due to her newly-found alleged sobriety. And the threat is that, If I refuse to leave, she will leave with the children.
My first reaction was, OK, let's urgently apply for interim custody and maintenance so that I secure the kids legally at least up until the time of our first divorce court date, earliest in two years' time. (The interim custody application must be done right on first attempt, as there is no appealing it once it's established.)
But no, this is contrary to the spirit of mediation in family law matters which apparently we must follow. So, the forensic psychologist has liaised with AW's addictions counselor who says that he wants to know the facts of her addiction, and they must be supplied by me and our child-minder, as the two adults who are most regularly exposed to her alcohol consumption patterns. There will also be a legal representative present in the meeting, in the role of mediator, who is to be an objective third party.
In essence he wants a formal confrontation in the presence of various people. He wants us to cite incidents of her drinking, observations of the changes she undergoes when drunk and how we dealt with the situation at the time. Based on her reactions and what we have to say, he will make a recommendation for either in-patient or out-patient rehab, with an initial non-negotiable detox as an in-patient of at minimum ten days. According to him, she must do rehab one way or the other.
If she refuses to do this, and does indeed just up and leave with the kids, I'll have to apply for an urgent court interdict to get the kids back into the family home.
I know all of these things are positive steps to bringing her addiction fully out into the open but inside I'm screaming with frustration. Her unshakeable denial is costing me time and huge amounts of money. Our considered legal approach is in stark contrast to her lawyer's "rabid pit-bull" style, the tone of which, my lawyer assures me, is looked at very seriously in the courtroom, should it get to that.
I feel like I've had enough of this crap now. I sometimes wish my lawyer would just send them a one page diatribe of muckraking and allegations, of the variety I regularly receive from them. It feels like we're constantly on the back-foot with them, and that they are setting the pace all the time. Admittedly, our softly-softly approach has resulted in her acknowledging that she has a problem with alcohol, but it just feels counter-intuitive to the attack signals my brain is sending me.
We have a documented admission of her addiction made by AW in consultation with the forensic psychologist, I just don't get why we can't skip all this other stuff and go for a court decision. Do we really need an army of experts to deal with what is a straightforward case of denial? Maybe someone here can advise?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
So if she's walking around the house drinking, record it. Use your cell phone or a webcam or a video camera. She's lying...catch her on it.
Addicts are the worst people in the world to divorce. They are completely immoral and selfish and total liars and must create as much drama as possible to feed their insatiable need for self pity.
You have my deepest sympathy. I don't know why everything has to be discussed ad nauseum via lawyers. I'd rather there just be a list of questions to be decided placed in front of a judge and they go down the list and say, yes, no, to the wife, to the husband, etc... One day and it'd be all over. But no, we have to have our lawyers go back and forth, file this, file that (which never gets before the judge), go to mediation, and again to mediation, have a psych her, and consultation there.
Judges don't want to make decisions, that's why it's done this way. They insist you settle it yourselves and present a solution to him, which frustrates everyone and makes lawyers rich and creates further animosity between the couples--a serious deficit for divorcing parents. The scars can last decades. It's a bad system, but makes it good for the lawyers and judge.
Btw--when I divorced my alkie in Michigan and custody was an issue, they could test him on the spot and tell if he'd been drinking within a certain time period. I wonder if your court does that.
Addicts are the worst people in the world to divorce. They are completely immoral and selfish and total liars and must create as much drama as possible to feed their insatiable need for self pity.
You have my deepest sympathy. I don't know why everything has to be discussed ad nauseum via lawyers. I'd rather there just be a list of questions to be decided placed in front of a judge and they go down the list and say, yes, no, to the wife, to the husband, etc... One day and it'd be all over. But no, we have to have our lawyers go back and forth, file this, file that (which never gets before the judge), go to mediation, and again to mediation, have a psych her, and consultation there.
Judges don't want to make decisions, that's why it's done this way. They insist you settle it yourselves and present a solution to him, which frustrates everyone and makes lawyers rich and creates further animosity between the couples--a serious deficit for divorcing parents. The scars can last decades. It's a bad system, but makes it good for the lawyers and judge.
Btw--when I divorced my alkie in Michigan and custody was an issue, they could test him on the spot and tell if he'd been drinking within a certain time period. I wonder if your court does that.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
It seems very frustrating to continue with proving she drinks.
I don't know the reasoning from your legal team and psychologist. I do know what my experience is with active alcoholism. Time is the enemy of the alcoholic. Time is your friend.
The alcoholic can not maintain 'good' behavior forever. There will be future episodes and outbursts.
This slogan is truthful:
"Patience, more will be revealed."
I am sorry for your frustrations.
I think you are a great parent! I hope you continue to take care of yourself and your children.
Sending you support and encouragement!
I don't know the reasoning from your legal team and psychologist. I do know what my experience is with active alcoholism. Time is the enemy of the alcoholic. Time is your friend.
The alcoholic can not maintain 'good' behavior forever. There will be future episodes and outbursts.
This slogan is truthful:
"Patience, more will be revealed."
I am sorry for your frustrations.
I think you are a great parent! I hope you continue to take care of yourself and your children.
Sending you support and encouragement!
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Get a few of the "Nanny Cams" (very tiny) and place them in every room and record, record, record.
Nothing like having it on tape and a receipt with the date you purchased the equipment.
Will shoot her claim of sobriety out the window.
She is doing what akies do, staying in denial, and convincing others, who don't know her, that she DOESN'T have a problem.
Have no doubt you are doing right by your children!
Love and hugs,
Nothing like having it on tape and a receipt with the date you purchased the equipment.
Will shoot her claim of sobriety out the window.
She is doing what akies do, staying in denial, and convincing others, who don't know her, that she DOESN'T have a problem.
Have no doubt you are doing right by your children!
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
alcoholics are normally all talk. they rarely do anything that they threaten. it's all about bullying and intimidation. bucyn's right, time is on your side and not on hers. do you really think that an active alcoholic is going to leave the family home, with two small children in tow? seems quite unlikely to me.
i wouldn't leave the home, if i was you. consider the children. they need one sane, sober adult.
i wouldn't leave the home, if i was you. consider the children. they need one sane, sober adult.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 77
Hi and thanks for the replies. Yeah, I certainly have no intention of leaving the house. I've learned how the law works the hard way, through having delinquent tenants. Basically, possession is 9/10th's of the law, and If I leave her with the kids to "facilitate" her recovery, it matters not one jot what legal nonsense I have in place, it's how I can enforce it, and that's usually very difficult.
So all these jokers are about to start marching to MY drum. I'm also going to dig my heels in and "refuse" to co-operate if they try and separate me from the kids. Who advocates for my children if I don't? I'm their father after all, and AW's recovery is her business, to be done somewhere away from two small children who only have one stab at childhood.
So all these jokers are about to start marching to MY drum. I'm also going to dig my heels in and "refuse" to co-operate if they try and separate me from the kids. Who advocates for my children if I don't? I'm their father after all, and AW's recovery is her business, to be done somewhere away from two small children who only have one stab at childhood.
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