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Are alcoholics really sociopaths?

Old 11-10-2010, 04:45 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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It doesn't matter if they are or aren't. They hurt the people around them either way. ALL alcoholics hurt the people who love them with their drinking. Not some, but ALL cause unnecessary pain to others.

I do not see anything offensive about the original post either. I have noticed that it is not uncommon for alcoholics on this site and in this forum (which is supposed to be for friends and families of alcoholics and focus on their pain and issues--the alcoholics have their own forum), but it is not uncommon for alcoholics here to be offended by any posts that do not show them in the politically correct viewpoint that they are the ones who hurt the most and have the biggest challenges.

And it's not uncommon for them to often try to turn the topic around to some version of 'poor me'--just as HollyAnne did. I'm sorry that the natural feelings and conflicts those who deal with alcoholics have make you feel that your recovery is harder. From where I sit, wondering what is wrong with these people that they are so cruel to the people who love them, and why they are such horrible people so often, is a natural consequence of the alcoholics' behavior. If it makes your recovery harder imagine how those who have to deal with your unpleasant alcohol-fueled behavior feel. It makes their LIVES harder, and many victims of alcoholics are in NO WAY responsible for being in the hellish relationships alcoholics create.

But that's just my non politically correct opinion: alcoholics create more hell than feel hell. And if they do feel more hell than they create...they have the power to stop. Few alcoholics will agree with me. But this is a forum for the family and friends of alcoholics and for their issues. My sympathy is not for the alcoholic who creates hell then passes out into alcohol induced oblivion. My sympathy is for the person who had hell unfairly dumped on them, and then laid awake all night next to the snoring alkie, anxious, hurt, feeling desperate and angry.

Flame away...don't care. I have no alkies in my life now, and my life is wonderful.

And back on topic: I think they are sociopathic. It is alcohol induced sociopathy, and many times it will disappear with a real recovery. And alcohol induced sociopathy hurts others just as much as organic sociopathy.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:54 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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I've gotta agree with Bucyn on this one. I just recently had a comment deleted because I used the word "drunks" and it offended people.

If we aren't discussing drunks, just what ARE we discussing???
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:01 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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The defining feature of a sociopath is someone who truly lacks a conscious. They may know that what they are doing is immoral because they've been taught that, but they won't know it instinctively. They feel no remorse, no empathy, nothing that truly connects them to humanity. I'm an alcoholic with bipolar disorder and I certainly have my unfortunate personality traits and regrettable actions! But that's the point-- I regret things I do that hurt other people. I'm sure that some sociopaths are alcoholics, but the vast majority of alcoholics are not sociopaths. Antisocial personality disorder is pretty rare.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:07 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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I agree with Blackstrat this topic is absurd.

I could list all the symptoms of cancer and odds are most of us have experienced several of them in the past 6 months. Doesn't mean we have cancer!

It takes much more than a screener checklist to make a diagnosis. Psychopathy is a very serious mental illness. Not diagnosed lightly and treatment not taken lightly.

There is a flip side of this topic: Making snap judgements about people with potentially very serious mental conditions which could be treated. It spreads around mistruths and misinformation.

I don't like threads like this. It works against the type of work I do (in mental health!) trying to get people to seek treatment so that they can BETTER their lives. Not be catagorized because that simply is NOT how a diagnosis is made. What you listed is a screener tool. But so much more is taken into consideration before anyone is diagnosed with any type of mental illness.

I work with kids who are mentally ill and there is a very good reason to not let parents try to diagnose their kids. A misdiagnosis can mean treatment which may actually make a condition worse. My point being that mental illness of any kind is serious and understanding is one thing but diagnosing someone is absurd without the right tools and training.

And on a personal note, my RABF is the exact opposite of a psychopath. He feels TOO much which is why he drinks. So there goes your theory. Every person who struggles with alcoholism is unique and may or may not have other underlying issues or behaviors.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:21 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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What a wise soul you are Babyblue. And very compassionate. Your post made me happy, made me feel people love people, made me see some good in the world. Noone likes to be labeled, stigmatized called snakes or dogs. What has happened to SR?
BTW I love your avatar is that your dog? And I am very serious, I've loved seeing his cute face wrapped up in what looks like lipstick. Thank you.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:23 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Didn't a thread very similar to this one get closed earlier? Why is this one still going?
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:23 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by meditation View Post
What a wise soul you are Babyblue. And very compassionate. Noone likes to be labeled, stigmatized called snakes or dogs. What has happened to SR?
BTW I love your avatar is that your dog?
meditation,

i love that avatar too!
"arent i pretty mama?"
:ghug3
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:29 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Thanks Meditation ( I always read your name as 'mediation' ha!).

No it isn't my pooch, just some pic I found which cheers me up. Hard to be taken seriously tho with a doggie in lipstick next to my posts.

I am compassionate because I've been on both sides of mental illness and I remember once meeting a woman whose abusive husband somehow managed to have her committed. It was such a sad story and I never forgot her.

Plus my own family really had not the first idea about how to handle me when I was in treatment. My mom would read stuff and it actually worked against my getting better. She meant well, as I know those here do but it got in the way of my getting the right help sometimes.

My doctor specifically told her to NOT read things.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:30 PM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by meditation View Post
What a wise soul you are Babyblue. And very compassionate. Your post made me happy, made me feel people love people, made me see some good in the world. Noone likes to be labeled, stigmatized called snakes or dogs. What has happened to SR?
BTW I love your avatar is that your dog? And I am very serious, I've loved seeing his cute face wrapped up in what looks like lipstick. Thank you.
What has happened to a safe haven for Friends and Family to discuss what they observe and live through? I don't know.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:43 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by blackstrat6 View Post
This is a ridiculous topic. I feel if you want to hear the answer you prefer to this question then go pay a professional to validate it.
I wouldn't be hurt to see this thread end. And the other one that was posted in rebuttal. I hate to see us break down in a "us or them" mentality. We are all better than this whether addict/alc. or friends and family.

We are stronger together!
This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's an uncomfortable topic for alcoholics to face, so let's minimize (a form of denial--something alkies are very very very good at) and scoff. And anyone who seriously considers such a 'rediculous' topic needs a psychiatrist.

Nice.

f&f of alkies have different problems than alkies, and this is the forum to deal with it. It's hard to do when the alkies come by all the time trying to shush up f&f issues, concerns, and inquiries. I understand that alkies would very much like all the issues to focus on their problems rather than on the uncomfortable issues f&f are interested in.

Because there is a difference in needs and experiences between alkies and f&fs, there will at times/often be a division. What is good for a f&f may be very unfortunate/uncomfortable for an alkie and vice versa.

A LOT of times when you are dealing with an alkie it IS an 'us or them' situation. Sorry. That's just how it is.

And when the interests of f&fs differ from those of alkies, it seems to me that the needs of the f&fs should trump those of the alkie in an f&f forum.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:44 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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oh my I'm sorry, I did not mean to upset you. I post in normally the substance abuse and occ alcoholics forum and quite a bit in the FF of substance abuse because those gals are wonderful. I learn so much. But I will stay out of this forum, I apologize.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:49 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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QUOTE: Are alcoholics really sociopaths?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found the following sociopathy traits based on the checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare. As I reviewed this checkout I found a scary resemblance to alcoholics, especially to my dry drunk husband. Review this checklist and see if the traits of the alcoholic in your life doesn't resemble a sociopath.

QUOTE




Maybe this question should of been asked differently and obviously the rest is just a statement 'found a scary resemblance'?

AFter I read it, I found scary resemblances too but many things in life may have the same symptoms. Doesnt mean its the same though.

All I know is that my loved ones, alcoholic or not, are human beings with all the emotions we have too at one time or another. We all just want respect.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Last post here I promise!! Babyblue thanks so much :ghug3

I too have generalized anxiety and depression and probably some undiagnosed mental "other" menta illness, if they look hard enough I'm sure they can find something to pin on me. I am codependent too and I really think that's what started off my addictions was trying to control and fix everyone , I was raised by an alcoholic father, had two grandparents that were alcoholics and my mother doesn't have a clue what a boundary is so I've had to practice many types of recovery. Thanks for sharing your love and viewpoint. I'll see you over on the FF for SA's.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:52 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Let's remember to remain respectful to all our members here.

I think this topic has triggered a lot of debate, and maybe it's time to give it a rest here for a while and go welcome a newcomer?

Hugs
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:03 PM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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This thread is now closed.
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