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I am so confused

Old 11-13-2010, 07:32 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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posted by Freedom Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages

funny, i learned this very quickly with my relationship with me A....and I came right out and told him so..." YOU have no RIGHT to ask ME to wait for you when your in RECOVERY", this is HIS recovery...I have my own....

What he says = 0 %,
He loves me = 0%
I love him = 0%
I'm lonely = 0%
He's lonely = 0%
I'm all powerful and can save him = 0%

What he does = 100%.
posted by cyranoak

OMG! i will post this on my fridge!
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
Thank you for your reply. I ignored him completely yesterday and focused on my three children. At 9pm I got a message " I need some time to heal JW123. Not because I dont love you but because I love you big time. I know you dont understand but please give me time". I mean he SAYS all the right stuff but his actions are the confusing thing. DAMN IT - I think I am in love with an alcoholic.
Actions speak louder than words. Proceed with caution.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:46 AM
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Ok so I went out to dinner. Was very guarded indeed. He pulled out all the stops and treated me like a lady - and then told me that he WAS going to have a few drinks at dinner. I was a bit taken aback and said ok. He then said he did not need my permission. TRUE. Anyway we had really nice dinner and while he did have a few drinks we chatted and he SEEMED so attentive towards me. In fact it was a really great dinner. He said that I need to give him time to heal and not to put pressure on him. I am not sure what kind of pressure he thinks I am putting on him as he has been the one to elect to see me, to persue me, to pop in and visit every other night etc. I told him that a relationship is TWO way and that if he feels I put him under pressure then why not just walk away and stop this "I love you" stuff.

Anyway.....having had the support of everyone here, I was "emotionally detached" from him and am really trying heard to "block the heart now". After dinner, I thanked him for the lovely time.....

...then I did not see him in 48 hours. I mean he sent about 4 text messages but it was clear he was drinking at home alone as when I saw him on Sunday he stank of booze and looked terrible................I got on with my own stuff (which is new to me) and later on in the evening he phoned me to ask if he could come around and visit. I said yes as my children were not home. He appeared sober and fine and then asked me what was wrong as I seem to have "attitude" (I guess it is disconnection). He explained once again that he loves me and wants me in his life but I need to give him time to heal from his divorce as it is really getting to him again. He said that I am too "deep" and must lighten up a bit.........

So...............while I am still confused.............it is not hurting so much as I am trying to focus on me and what I want out of a relationship. I have not texted him today like I always did in the past few months, nor have I e-mailed...and now strangely enough he seems to be making an effort.

He is going away for the next two weeks and quite frankly I want to see what happens. My ex husband (left for another woman) treated me with no regard at the end and I simply cant let this man do the same. I am beginning to see he is a sweet talker of note.

I still cant beleive how booze makes them change and withdrawl.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:10 AM
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"Thank you for all your responses. Wow I have come to the right place. I guess having never been with or exposed to alcholism (I come from a very sheltered past) that I dont understand it. I want to see the best in him. Not fix him - that is for him to do but I am fast beginning to understand that perhaps my divorce has something with me putting up with this type of nonsense - I feel rejected as my Husband left for another woman and so perhaps I just want anyone to just "love me" - silly hey."

Not at all silly - and I don't think that having your husband walk out on you for a friend constitutes a sheltered past. That's a huge wound and a huge betrayal. I was with a "recovering" alcoholic for about a year who did the same withdrawal routine, then confessed about his relapse, then did exactly what your BF is doing. Which, so far as I can tell, is to change all the rules of your relationship overnight and tell you that your (understandable) confusion and anxiety is "pressuring" him.

Funny thing happens with alcohol - alcoholics know that it's not good for them. And yet they press their luck. That's what happens with a relapse - it's an exercise in "maybe this time I can get away with this and it will be different." And in parallel, they start to press their luck with the people who love them. If this man had treated you this way at the start of the relationship, you would have run for the hills. But he's banking on you being hooked in enough that he can start to show you who he really is when he's drinking.

Dollars to doughnuts, his alcoholism had something to do with the ending of his marriage. My XABF wasn't drinking when we started dating (also separated, 18 months, divorce became final soon after we became a couple). I think he felt like he had made a fresh start. He liked who he was sober. He liked me. Everything was hunky dory. When he relapsed my best guess is that he couldn't write his "problem" off as being tied to his bad marriage. He didn't like himself so much. Tried to get sober again. Failed. Liked himself even less.

And his behavior towards me, in hindsight, mirrored -exactly- his treatment towards himself, and his feelings towards himself. By the end he was a puddle of self-loathing. And he behaved as though he loathed me. Totally confusing and really brutal. I had a major loss not long before we met and I really, really needed for this to be my "one good thing." I picked the absolute worst bet to be my "one good thing" and it was a really painful journey.

It's okay that this man is an alcoholic. It's not your fault. You didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. His behavior will get worse, not better and you can decide, at any time, that you are worth more than your husband's despicable betrayal and this man's addiction. Because you are. You don't owe him anything.

Hugs,

SL
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:54 AM
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"...He explained once again that he loves me and wants me in his life but I need to give him time to heal from his divorce as it is really getting to him again. He said that I am too "deep" and must lighten up a bit..."

What's he doing to heal from his divorce? (Sounds like drink, but...<shrug>)

He wants time, feels pressure from you, etc... So give him time. Maybe tell him that you'll check in with him in six months. Until then it might be best not to see or contact each other so he can focus on his 'healing', after all you certainly don't want to pressure him. (This solution will NOT make him happy).

Red flag that he criticized you as being too deep (whatever that means) and have to (note the word "MUST") lighten up. You have to change if you want him--that's what he's telling you.

Red flag also that he tells you he IS going to drink and when you say 'ok' he's still defensive and tells you he doesn't need your permission. You didn't argue with him, so what's he getting defensive about? In the same vein, he accuses you of pressuring him when you aren't, when it fact it's the other way around. This seems to indicate that he isn't seeing you as you are; that there's an image of you in his head, like a negative fantasy person, that he's reacting too instead of interacting with the real you. He's not seeing the YOU of you. He's superimposing his idea of who you are on you--and is not picking up clues to the opposite, to what's really you.

This will become a bigger and bigger problem if it's true. Because the false you he seems to be superimposing over you is not positive, and it's like he's designing you to be the bad guy in his life: the one pressuring him, the one who thinks needs to give him permission to drink, the one who's too 'deep' and needs to lighten up (btw--it's kind of common for alcoholics to pressure their partners to drink and party with them, I guess it eases their consciences or something. And then get mad when their partner doesn't want to).

In any case, he seems to be perceiving you differently from how you really are, and if that's the case, how can the 'love' he says he feels be real? It's for the false you he's designed in his mind.

I don't know if this makes sense. In your situation, I'd be concerned that he's not reacting to what you are really doing or acting. And I'd be concerned that he's criticizing and expecting you to change in some way.

It's fair that he wants time to heal from his divorce. He might have been separated for 18 months, but he's only been divorced divorced for a couple (six?). Divorce healing doesn't actually start for many people until the deed is done.

Love shouldn't hurt--but it also shouldn't be confusing. If it hurts and is confusing, I'm thinking maybe it's not love.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:26 AM
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He's addicted to alcohol! And he will do anything to get his next fix or drink. I'll bet he found you an interference to getting his next drink. After he gets his next drink he wants your friendship back, but only until he needs his next drink. Let go and Let God!
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

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Old 11-15-2010, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by stilllearning View Post
It's okay that this man is an alcoholic. It's not your fault. You didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. His behavior will get worse, not better and you can decide, at any time, that you are worth more than your husband's despicable betrayal and this man's addiction. Because you are. You don't owe him anything.

Hugs,

SL
Very well said.

My husband was an alcoholic. I was not his primary relationship. He put his relationship with alcohol before his relationship with me and this is the thing that perhaps is true of every person in active addiction. It is the definition of active addiction - it comes first. They follow the voice of addiction before they do or honor anything or anyone else.

That means resources of time, money, emotional availability, concern, honor, all of it - serves the addiction first and what is left over goes to others. As time goes on this becomes more and more evident. Like the previous poster said, it gets worse.

If others cause problems with the primary relationship (alcohol) the alcoholic will most likely push back. How they (the alcoholic) pushes back is individual but they will do something. My xah used lots of emotional manipulation. I had lots of personal recovery work to do so I was extremely vulnerable to that sort of thing. I still have lots of recovery work to do but I see it now.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:34 AM
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His behavior is saying he still wants to drink, also he still wants to be around you, and he doesn't want you to bug him about his drinking.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:43 PM
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Doesn't seem to me that you are getting anything positive out of this relationship
.
He says he needs to heal from his divorce, but stops by your home regularly. It seems he just wants to be left alone to drink whenever it suits him with no regard for your feelings at all. My ex ABF also tried to turn the tables on me; always to take the focus off himself. Nearly lost my mind.

I love the suggestion to tell him to go heal all he wants...no contact with you at all. I hope you consider doing just that.

Really, what good is any of this doing you? You are worth so much more than his nonsense. Remember that.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:14 PM
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Thanks again for your insight and for your support. What has struck me between the eyes is that my ex husband, while not an alcoholic, was addicted too....to the other woman - especially when I read what Thumper said. Now I am attracted to a man with an obvious addiction. I say attracted too because some small part of me is now saying JW123 - fight for you - DONT love him - you are not worth these men. I battle between the lonliness of being alone after 16 years of marriage and perhaps I am addicted to "feeling wanted". Great.......... more questions to ponder on.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:18 PM
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He sounds like a complete mess. He may have a plausible reason (delayed reaction to his divorce) but the drinking is his way of coping. El RED FLAGO! That will be his pattern... something stressful? Take a drink.. or two or 12. Is that how you coped after your divorce? Probably not.

He is treating you shabbily. And immaturely. Oh and he relapsed, reason enough to keep your distance until he gets his head straight or before long he will be blaming you for his drinking.. the 'lighten up' comment hints at that most likely happening.

Maybe step away until you he finds sobriety again.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:46 AM
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I'm finding this thread very helpful and eye-opening. It's helping keep NC with my ex ADFH. Back to JW....

Originally Posted by JW123 View Post
Ok so I went out to dinner. Was very guarded indeed. He pulled out all the stops and treated me like a lady - and then told me that he WAS going to have a few drinks at dinner. I was a bit taken aback and said ok. He then said he did not need my permission. TRUE.

Have been there done that. I used to have a problem with my ex having a drink or two. The last couple of times we went out for dinner (about two months ago), he had a beer and a wine and I didn't flinch or even care if he drank. I just new I'd leave him sitting there if he drank too much, to find his own way back to his home. Did you end up taking your own car JW? That was nice he treated you like a lady. My ex treated me like a lady too. Very romantic.

Anyway we had really nice dinner and while he did have a few drinks we chatted and he SEEMED so attentive towards me. In fact it was a really great dinner.

Yep, I understand. Been there, done that. I bet the conversation was great, he held your hand and told you how much he loved you....but....

He said that I need to give him time to heal and not to put pressure on him. I am not sure what kind of pressure he thinks I am putting on him as he has been the one to elect to see me, to persue me, to pop in and visit every other night etc. I told him that a relationship is TWO way and that if he feels I put him under pressure then why not just walk away and stop this "I love you" stuff.


I can understand the confusion JW. I too have been confused by my ex's professions of love. I too have been told to lay off on the pressure and I too have been confused as to what he means by pressure. He lives on his own. I live with my kids. He has his own life and he's only ever fitted me into his sober moments. You're right, a relationship is two way and when you're in love with a drinking alcoholic, you're like a mistress (my experience anyway).

Anyway.....having had the support of everyone here, I was "emotionally detached" from him and am really trying heard to "block the heart now". After dinner, I thanked him for the lovely time.....

Blocking the heart is probably the best thing to do, but can be difficult to accomplish...At least you're here on SR and I know myself, it keeps me grounded in reality.

...then I did not see him in 48 hours. I mean he sent about 4 text messages but it was clear he was drinking at home alone as when I saw him on Sunday he stank of booze and looked terrible................I got on with my own stuff (which is new to me)

Yay! Good on you....

and later on in the evening he phoned me to ask if he could come around and visit. I said yes as my children were not home. He appeared sober and fine and then asked me what was wrong as I seem to have "attitude" (I guess it is disconnection). He explained once again that he loves me and wants me in his life but I need to give him time to heal from his divorce as it is really getting to him again. He said that I am too "deep" and must lighten up a bit.........

Yep, I've heard that before too. Not about the divorce thing but that he "needs time". A week and a half ago, my ex asked me to give him 10 weeks then changed it to 13 weeks until he will give me the time to have a heart to heart about where our relationship is going. (what relationship, lol? The one where he waltzes into my life when it suits him? The one where he can say how much he loves me and then I don't hear from him for weeks?) My ex said he's reaching rock bottom and has booked himself into a 10 week support program (it's based on the 12 steps and he attends a meeting once a week! ). I don't believe he has attended because he is chronically addicted and drinks around the clock but I haven't called him to find out. None of my business. And give him 13 weeks? How about a lifetime? Lol. Jw, if it's not his divorce that's causing his grief, it'll be work, kids (if he has them), you, your kids, the weather, where he lives, the person who dumped him 20 years ago, the economy, the state of the world and so on..you get the driftt Alcoholism is a three fold disease. It's emotional, spiritual and physical and unless he is getting help dealing with the isms behind the drinking, he won't get well, maybe a DD at best. By the way, I understand the "deep" thing, Maybe he's sensing your detachment or maybe he's sensing an underlying anxiety (within you if it's there? Caused by the inconsistency and chaos of being in a relationship with a drinking alcoholic?).

So...............while I am still confused.............it is not hurting so much as I am trying to focus on me and what I want out of a relationship. I have not texted him today like I always did in the past few months, nor have I e-mailed...and now strangely enough he seems to be making an effort.

Congratulations! You're doing really well. From my experience, when I've maintained NC for a long period of time (a year from last August to this August), it took my ex all that time to come back and ask if we could make things work. I let my guard down a little, let him back in to my heart somewhat and bam! He left again...At least I'm not back to square one because I'm here! And so are you! We're the lucky ones who have support....

He is going away for the next two weeks and quite frankly I want to see what happens. My ex husband (left for another woman) treated me with no regard at the end and I simply cant let this man do the same. I am beginning to see he is a sweet talker of note.

I still cant beleive how booze makes them change and withdrawl.
I understand JW. My XAH was very abusive and moved straight in with another woman after we'd been separated a couple of weeks. I was vulnerable and I ended up with my latest exADFH. And this relationship has lasted for 6.5 years on and off (more off than on if I think about it...it's hard to be in a relationship on your own. As you said, it takes two people). Also, Cyran's reply about the percentages and action being 100% has really helped me. Something to think about. Sweet talking? Well, maybe he really does have genuine feelings for you, it's just that the alcohol is his first priority. Just remember, you're worth someone loving you, respecting you, being loyal to you and honest. We all are.....All the best JW

Last edited by Floss; 11-16-2010 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Changed my replies to purple
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:40 AM
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Thanks Floss for your honesty too. It is so hard when they do (and they can) be all we want for a few hours and then it falls apart. My friends and family are all concerned about this relationship. I was such a mess last week but then found this site and actually some of my friends can't believe the change in me - I keep coming back here almost hourly when those "thoughts of him" invade my head and I want to be strong. Confusion is being caught between "he might change" and "nope he is not going to change".

Also in the past 8 months there has always been something stressing him out.....his work, his kids, his ex, he always said after this or after that it will get better. So I was looking forward to November and NOW it is his divorce haunting him. I mean I get that, I get that divorce is so very hard BUT cant he see that HE threw away his marriage drinking and yes his ex left for another man and strung him along for a year. I am interested in HOW he is addressing the pain. I got into therapy and have worked through my divorce issues - but now seem to have more
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