MY issues??? Has anyone experienced this?
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MY issues??? Has anyone experienced this?
Talked to ABF (or tried to) and he just kept yelling over me. When we tried to discuss the fact that the reason I told him to go home last Saturday was because he was 45 minutes late he called me an immature 38-year old for standing in my kitchen with my arms crossed. How I didn't understand that he called to say he was late (he called at 5:20 and didn't even leave a message) and how I didn't ask if he was ok or in an accident. (BTW, I have often driven out to his house to check on him when I haven't heard from him and gotten "I don't know why you were worried, I am fine.") Then told me how he asked several people about what our conversation about what it meant when we decided on 5:00 to get together. Somehow he was able to rationalize it to mean 5 or sometime after and whoever he asked agreed. Every time I try to talk to him about his drinking he says, "But what about YOUR issues?" "You aren't doing anything to work on them." "You are always negative when I call. When I call my girlfriend I need someone to be there for me. I have REAL issues and don't have time for this." Then went on to tell me how wonderful everyone at work thinks he is. I told him I hoped when he was polling people about being late he told them about all the times he didn't show up at all because of alcohol or showed up drunk. Again, no argument--it is all MY ISSUE. 
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Location: Kansas
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Conversations with an alcoholic are always circular.
Perhaps you could try lowering your expectations (like expecting a rational, mature conversation from him).
Until then, you will continue to be frustrated and angry.
Personally I don't talk to people who yell over me, are immature, and are active alcoholics.
Perhaps you could try lowering your expectations (like expecting a rational, mature conversation from him).
Until then, you will continue to be frustrated and angry.
Personally I don't talk to people who yell over me, are immature, and are active alcoholics.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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Intimate relationships with an active alcoholic just don't work! I mean, there are all kinds of reasons why communication is difficult in ANY relationship but if you are trying to have a meaningful or productive conversation with an A well.....it's just not going to happen!
Peace-
B
Peace-
B
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All those conversations do is frustrate you. Clearly he won't admit that he is wrong in being late, so he has not intentions of changing it.
I had to laugh a bit..I have a routine from when I was dating.
If a guy was late a 3d time, I would go out somewhere myself so I wasn't sitting home mad and I wouldn't be there if/when he arrived late. If/when they phoned, I would say, "I knew you must be either dead or in the hospital."
I had to laugh a bit..I have a routine from when I was dating.
If a guy was late a 3d time, I would go out somewhere myself so I wasn't sitting home mad and I wouldn't be there if/when he arrived late. If/when they phoned, I would say, "I knew you must be either dead or in the hospital."
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Join Date: May 2010
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It's what they do...it's blame-shifting. Because after all, if you are the one with the problem, then he doesn't have to face reality. You're interfering with his drinking when you expect responsibility in some form, any form really.
Freedom said it best. It's pointless...not to mention insulting...to have someone yell over you. It's circular, and not going to change, until he decides he wants to change.
Freedom said it best. It's pointless...not to mention insulting...to have someone yell over you. It's circular, and not going to change, until he decides he wants to change.
Last edited by HealingWillCome; 10-31-2010 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Typo
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Starlynn
It's interesting. A's usually point out the obvious in a way that is not quite so obvious. In truth, we do have an issue......and the A in our life is it. And when we start dealing with "our issue", they usually don't like the result.
gentle hugs
It's interesting. A's usually point out the obvious in a way that is not quite so obvious. In truth, we do have an issue......and the A in our life is it. And when we start dealing with "our issue", they usually don't like the result.
gentle hugs
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Join Date: May 2010
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talking to an alcoholic is like talking to a petulant child at times..in the beginning i got angry as i couldn't understand why the man who was so rational and insightful when sober seemed to lose all his powers of reasoning after a few beers.
now i just pity him and try to stay patient, as if talking to a little child..at least this doesn't escalate situations so much any more
just consider him rationally handicapped when the drink talks, then maybe it doesn't hurt so much
now i just pity him and try to stay patient, as if talking to a little child..at least this doesn't escalate situations so much any more
just consider him rationally handicapped when the drink talks, then maybe it doesn't hurt so much
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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hey, the reason you're standing in the kitchen is because he said he would be there and you were waiting for him.
how many more times are you going to stand there waiting on him?
i recall one time my xABF said he was randy, could he come up? i said sure. call me after your work is done (at 2am). so he calls and wakes me at 2am, i say come over. he says ok. doesn't. calls me at 3am saying he's gone home. i say ok, but i'm pissed off because i got up in the middle of the night for nothing.
next morning, he calls. still randy. can he come over? i say ok. wait on him. he calls me from a pub. not coming.
so then at 3pm, i run into him on my way to the grocery store. says he's coming over at 6. i wait until 7. he doesn't come. calls from a bar, says will i meet him?
anyway, you get the idea. spare yourself the waiting. there's a lot of fish in the sea. you won't win over their first love.
naive
how many more times are you going to stand there waiting on him?
i recall one time my xABF said he was randy, could he come up? i said sure. call me after your work is done (at 2am). so he calls and wakes me at 2am, i say come over. he says ok. doesn't. calls me at 3am saying he's gone home. i say ok, but i'm pissed off because i got up in the middle of the night for nothing.
next morning, he calls. still randy. can he come over? i say ok. wait on him. he calls me from a pub. not coming.
so then at 3pm, i run into him on my way to the grocery store. says he's coming over at 6. i wait until 7. he doesn't come. calls from a bar, says will i meet him?
anyway, you get the idea. spare yourself the waiting. there's a lot of fish in the sea. you won't win over their first love.
naive
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Star: I agree with all said above. After 29-year marriage with A, which he ended because I was "the source of all the unhappiness in his life", I can promise you the behavior you describe will only get worse, and will be evident whether he is drunk or sober. My experience is that they have to blame us. If it isn't us, they have to look in the mirror...and they just can't do it. Whether alcohol is the problem or a symptom for him, he will protect it. When in marriage counseling with XAH, we discussed barriers to our relationship and I brought up alcohol as one (of many). XAH said, "I'm a great guy, just ask anyone!" Even though he was fired by his best friends, kids won't speak to him, etc.
Bottom line: Sorry to say, they will sacrifice anything to protect the alcohol.
Bottom line: Sorry to say, they will sacrifice anything to protect the alcohol.
I'm no angel!
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Maybe its time for you to regain your life. Checking on an adult is not a hobby I would consider as fun. And, he is an A so, you can never expect him to be on time or where he is supposed to be.
Finally, I agree with everyone else, blame shifting, circular talk is all part of the game they play.
What are you planning to do for you?
Finally, I agree with everyone else, blame shifting, circular talk is all part of the game they play.
What are you planning to do for you?
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Starlynn: After too many years, I learned that everything from Global Warming to Middle East peace was my issue. It became futile to attempt any type of resolution with this man. These conversations silenced me. I had no voice in the relationship and felt oppressed. Eventually, but not soon enough, I moved on.
To thine own self be true.
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I hate having conversations like that. And yes I have had plenty of them. They will literally make you crazy. I don't involve myself in relationships with people who act that way anymore. I doubt you will ever get anywhere in your conversations with him and he does not sound like he wants to, or sees the need to, change how he treats you. Been there, hated it.
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I rem when my xah told me that I was the one with the problems and while walking upstair to go to bed... Told me, you figure it out. I did - and haven't regretted it...
Maybe it's time to change your phone number. I haven't had to do that, but then when I get to that point. They have let it go also...
Maybe it's time to change your phone number. I haven't had to do that, but then when I get to that point. They have let it go also...
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Oh, yeah... It's all my fault that I made a unilateral decision to throw him out (never mind his independent choice to utilize porn and alcohol as emotional crutches, no matter how much they damaged our marriage). He had to start a new relationship without benefit of divorce because he was unfairly rejected. [Insert soundtrack: Nobody knows.... the trouble I've SEEEEEEEENNNN... Nobody knows... my SOOOOORRROOOWW....]
I was recently the target of a bizarre round of blameshifting: he and his gf had a childcare scheduling miscommunication... and they both considered it to be my fault, as I declined to jump in and fix the problem. I looked at him straight in the eye and calmly said, "I do not accept responsibility for this."
Silence.
I'M FREE!!!!!
Like a lot of alcoholic weirdness, after you can step away long enough to cool off and regain your objectivity, blameshifting gets to be kind of horrifying to watch. So I now don't, any more than I can help it.
I was recently the target of a bizarre round of blameshifting: he and his gf had a childcare scheduling miscommunication... and they both considered it to be my fault, as I declined to jump in and fix the problem. I looked at him straight in the eye and calmly said, "I do not accept responsibility for this."
Silence.
I'M FREE!!!!!
Like a lot of alcoholic weirdness, after you can step away long enough to cool off and regain your objectivity, blameshifting gets to be kind of horrifying to watch. So I now don't, any more than I can help it.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by Kindeyes 
Starlynn
It's interesting. A's usually point out the obvious in a way that is not quite so obvious. In truth, we do have an issue......and the A in our life is it. And when we start dealing with "our issue", they usually don't like the result.
It's interesting. A's usually point out the obvious in a way that is not quite so obvious. In truth, we do have an issue......and the A in our life is it. And when we start dealing with "our issue", they usually don't like the result.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Hey, not having read AA material, here's my 2 cents fwiw.
It HAS to be your issue, according to him, or he'd have to face things. And he can't because that's hard, painful work that involves, of course, not drinking.
He gets strokes from the rest of the world. They don't know him. You hold the pain, yours and his. You get to keep the memories of what he wants to forget. If you're still there, he can't be that bad. In moments of lucidity, where he hates himself, he might think less of you for loving him. A strong woman wouldn't put up with it; a strong woman wouldn't hurt so much. A strong woman might fix me. Then, I don't need fixing, she's overdoing it, she's the drama queen, it's got to be her problem.
Rationalization is just an amazing, amazing process.
And it's only the icing on a cake made of low impulse control (probably), the depressant qualities of alcohol and its other effects on mood, cumulative brain damage, and generally poor coping mechanisms.
Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with you. This person, even if he were inclined, can't empathize. Every fibre in the alcohol android he now is fights against it, cause it would destroy his miserable comfort.
--
The reflection of self I got from my ex differed radically from how I and people who love me see me. It's like living in an (anti)funhouse.
It HAS to be your issue, according to him, or he'd have to face things. And he can't because that's hard, painful work that involves, of course, not drinking.
He gets strokes from the rest of the world. They don't know him. You hold the pain, yours and his. You get to keep the memories of what he wants to forget. If you're still there, he can't be that bad. In moments of lucidity, where he hates himself, he might think less of you for loving him. A strong woman wouldn't put up with it; a strong woman wouldn't hurt so much. A strong woman might fix me. Then, I don't need fixing, she's overdoing it, she's the drama queen, it's got to be her problem.
Rationalization is just an amazing, amazing process.
And it's only the icing on a cake made of low impulse control (probably), the depressant qualities of alcohol and its other effects on mood, cumulative brain damage, and generally poor coping mechanisms.
Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with you. This person, even if he were inclined, can't empathize. Every fibre in the alcohol android he now is fights against it, cause it would destroy his miserable comfort.
--
The reflection of self I got from my ex differed radically from how I and people who love me see me. It's like living in an (anti)funhouse.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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My XBF said the same things to me, Starlynn. What I discovered after a while, was that he was right, I DID have my own issues. Lots of them. But that I had somewhere along the line decided to ignore my own issues and focus instead on HIS drinking and the way HE treated me poorly in the relationship. I was so hung up on the HURT that I felt because of his behavior, and the fact that I was RIGHT about how a person SHOULD BE treated in a relationship, that I completely ignored ME. I would even scream and yell and got to the point where I was so frustrated and angry that I HIT him several times and felt JUSTIFIED because I was "right" and he was an "a$$hole." Out. Of. Control. That's where being involved with someone like that and refusing to just let go got me. My advice: Save your sanity and save yourself. Get to an Al-Anon meeting so you can start shifting your focus away from him and onto YOU and YOUR needs.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
Conversations with an alcoholic are always circular.
Perhaps you could try lowering your expectations (like expecting a rational, mature conversation from him).
Until then, you will continue to be frustrated and angry.
Personally I don't talk to people who yell over me, are immature, and are active alcoholics.
Perhaps you could try lowering your expectations (like expecting a rational, mature conversation from him).
Until then, you will continue to be frustrated and angry.
Personally I don't talk to people who yell over me, are immature, and are active alcoholics.
It was SO confusing!
This confusion is not just with an active A, my ex was in AA and sober for a while. Unless the A is in recovery, the pattern won't stop. I actually had better talks and less fights when my ex was drinking
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by notforgotten
Hey, not having read AA material, here's my 2 cents fwiw.
It HAS to be your issue, according to him, or he'd have to face things. And he can't because that's hard, painful work that involves, of course, not drinking.
He gets strokes from the rest of the world. They don't know him. You hold the pain, yours and his. You get to keep the memories of what he wants to forget. If you're still there, he can't be that bad. In moments of lucidity, where he hates himself, he might think less of you for loving him. A strong woman wouldn't put up with it; a strong woman wouldn't hurt so much. A strong woman might fix me. Then, I don't need fixing, she's overdoing it, she's the drama queen, it's got to be her problem.
Rationalization is just an amazing, amazing process.
And it's only the icing on a cake made of low impulse control (probably), the depressant qualities of alcohol and its other effects on mood, cumulative brain damage, and generally poor coping mechanisms.
Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with you. This person, even if he were inclined, can't empathize. Every fibre in the alcohol android he now is fights against it, cause it would destroy his miserable comfort.
--
The reflection of self I got from my ex differed radically from how I and people who love me see me. It's like living in an (anti)funhouse.
It HAS to be your issue, according to him, or he'd have to face things. And he can't because that's hard, painful work that involves, of course, not drinking.
He gets strokes from the rest of the world. They don't know him. You hold the pain, yours and his. You get to keep the memories of what he wants to forget. If you're still there, he can't be that bad. In moments of lucidity, where he hates himself, he might think less of you for loving him. A strong woman wouldn't put up with it; a strong woman wouldn't hurt so much. A strong woman might fix me. Then, I don't need fixing, she's overdoing it, she's the drama queen, it's got to be her problem.
Rationalization is just an amazing, amazing process.
And it's only the icing on a cake made of low impulse control (probably), the depressant qualities of alcohol and its other effects on mood, cumulative brain damage, and generally poor coping mechanisms.
Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with you. This person, even if he were inclined, can't empathize. Every fibre in the alcohol android he now is fights against it, cause it would destroy his miserable comfort.
--
The reflection of self I got from my ex differed radically from how I and people who love me see me. It's like living in an (anti)funhouse.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Hi starlynn,
Sorry to say that I had the same arguments over and again. The only time they stopped was when he was sober for awhile. At first my head was spinning and I wasn't certain what the truth was so I gave him the benefit of doubt. As time went on, I began to realize that he had a problem with drinking. Then, I realized I had a problem with his drinking. So what to do?
I tried to be understanding... not to argue... to validate what was true... to take responsibilty for my stuff... only sobriety and involvment with AA on his part permitted any change in this pattern. Being sober and no longer getting support he returned to this pattern and eventually relapsed.
I felt awful. I tried to understand. I supported his sobriety. I did everything I could to maintain my sanity. The latter is what saved me from the chaos and keeps me in a safe place. It makes all the difference.
So yes, been there... done that.... trust your instincts... believe in yourself and let him figure out his own issues.
Sorry to say that I had the same arguments over and again. The only time they stopped was when he was sober for awhile. At first my head was spinning and I wasn't certain what the truth was so I gave him the benefit of doubt. As time went on, I began to realize that he had a problem with drinking. Then, I realized I had a problem with his drinking. So what to do?
I tried to be understanding... not to argue... to validate what was true... to take responsibilty for my stuff... only sobriety and involvment with AA on his part permitted any change in this pattern. Being sober and no longer getting support he returned to this pattern and eventually relapsed.
I felt awful. I tried to understand. I supported his sobriety. I did everything I could to maintain my sanity. The latter is what saved me from the chaos and keeps me in a safe place. It makes all the difference.
So yes, been there... done that.... trust your instincts... believe in yourself and let him figure out his own issues.
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