Shame and Blame

Old 10-23-2010, 07:20 AM
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Shame and Blame

Something stirred in me when I read another recent thread and I felt I needed to share this here. What I read on this site helped me so much and I hope it helps others who have also felt the shame and the blame. I've copied and pasted it here. (I hope that's okay?).

From Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications

when told, "You're not a victim--you volunteered for it
by toby » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:24 am

There's subtle abuse perpetrated on the person involved with the alcoholic, when we are told that "no one told us to rescue him"
---IT IS THE SAME SUBTLE ABUSE AS WHEN WE ARE TOLD THAT "WE WERE NOT VICTIMS OF THE ALCOHOLIC'S BEHAVIOR" ... THAT WE "VOLUNTEERED FOR IT"
------------------------------------------------
a.) when I was new in family recovery (about 42+ years ago -- older than some of you are now!) .... a woman passed me a note at a meeting..... I had just shared with the group about the abuse I was a victim of...... her note said to me, "whenever I am troubled, the trouble lies within."

I looked at her like she was crazy.

I just figured she had no idea what I was talking about.

And I was feisty enough that I knew that NO ONE was going to shut me up----or shame me into leaving the rooms of recovery....shame me by implying that I was to blame for being abused (telling me that I 'allowed it').

b.) What was really going on? Was that woman wrong? Was I wrong?
Neither was "wrong" in a sense. But she was "wrong-er" than I was.

WHY WAS SHE WRONG-ER THAN I WAS?

Yes, technically speaking, whenever I am troubled, I must look within. And these days, of course I do. It is second nature to do so.

BUT IN THOSE EARLY DAYS OF FAMILY RECOVERY, whenever I 'looked within', all I saw was that I was in a situation that I could not emotionally leave... all I had was an alcoholic in my life who actually told me that he enjoyed hurting me...........and I could not leave.

What VERY PRACTICAL HELP DID help me?

What helped me were the people who ONLY said, "I understand." "I've
been there." "You'll find your way to deal with it". "we're here for you" "OF COURSE you love him." "When and if you want to leave, you will." "You're not trapped...you only think you are, but you are not trapped..." "you are a child of God and He will show you what you need to do."

All these statements said to me, "it's ok where you are."

NONE of these statements told me ---OR IMPLIED TO ME--- that SOMEHOW "I am to blame for the abuse I 'subject myself' to".

There is AN IMPLICATION when we tell the family member that "whenever you are troubled, the trouble lies within".

The woman living with an abuser hears this and it SOUNDS LIKE the abuser talking to her once again.

And she is RIGHT. It IS abusive to say this to her....

BECAUSE WHEN WE SAY THINGS TO PEOPLE, WE ALWAYS SAY THEM
IN-CONTEXT.

When I tell a newcomer to family recovery that "your trouble originates from within", I shame her... she will mumble to me, "you're right"...she will slink away...she will not return for help... Oh, some will stay in recovery when this is said to them---but MOST will just not return.

I train counselors around the country.
Over and over, they ask me, "how can I keep families coming back for help? They leave after a session or two."
I ask them, "what do you say to them in the first session?"
The ones who ask me why the families leave treatment, always tell me that they say to the counseling client who lives with an alcoholic, "Why do you stay?" or "he has not victimized you... you do this to yourself".

The counselors ask me, then, "then what do YOU say?"
What I say to my clients is what is in my books....... I say that I TOTALLY understand...... and that they ARE being treated horribly...and that THEY WILL find a way to deal with it...and that they are NOT CRAZY when they tell me how much they are being abused and how much he lies about it and how no one understands or believes them.

I tell them that no one has the right to shame them -- even unknowingly or subtly-- for staying with him.

That OF COURSE she loves him.

IT IS ONLY WHEN I PUT NO PRESSURE ON HER AT ALL---NOT EVEN ANY IMPLIED PRESSURE ON HER---THAT TELLS HER SHE MUST MAKE CHANGES THAT SHE IS NOT AT ALL ABLE OR WANTING TO MAKE... it is this TOTAL ACCEPTANCE of where she is at RIGHT NOW...that helps her to move forward into whatever place she will feel more peace.

AND THE BIGGEST THING I WATCH OUT FOR IS SHAMING HER.

ANY TIME I TELL A NEWCOMER THAT THE ONUS OF HER FEELING BAD IS ON HER----INSTEAD OF ON THE ABUSER WHO ABUSES HER----I AM SHAMING HER.
-------------------------------------------------
Victor Frankl, who was internationally famous after World War II, wrote about the Jewish people in concentration camps---and wrote about the newspapers that continually asked, "Why didn't they just emigrate out of Germany?" and "Why didn't they fight back?"...and ended up with the IMPLICATION that "no wonder it happened to them...... they could have done something about it and they did not."
Frankl coined the phrase, back then, "blaming the victim".

Yes, there are victims.

In fact, I think there is an analogy between how Germany acclimated Jews to acceptance of what happened----------- and what happens to families of alcoholics.

How so? Well, it is a slow process...and it is a "back and forth" process.
The Germans put out new codes, new laws, one at a time, that herded Jewish people into ghettoes, stopped them from going to school/earning a living/etc etc.

BUT HOW THEY DID IT WAS SUBLIME----- they would put out a new code of expected behavior... the Jewish people would get angry... then, the German government would say that "it's all ok...it'll all blow over, eventually... it's for your own good.... look, it's not so bad... we do care about you... try looking at this way...etc etc etc"... and it made it seem like, "livable"... it calmed scared nerves down.

It made people think it would all be ok, someday...and that living there was still not so bad.
-------------------------------------------------

Living with an alcoholic is soooo similar... the disease is progressive....... we start out with someone who is in earlier stages...he is nice a lot... he is nice for five days out of seven...

The awful behavior creeps forward irregularly and usually slowly... we see so much good in him... he is sweet...he makes tons of promises...he tells us how very special we are... he is so wonderful, when he is nice, that he is more wonderful than anyone else would ever be, we think.

Slowly, but surely, then, it turns sour...... but IT IS PUNCTUATED by niceness---once again...over and over, the awfulness and then the beautiful sweetness... awfulness, then repentance and tears... promises for a good future.....then, bam, again......and nice again......and bam, again.......

Yes, we ARE victims of this terrible process...of this terrible disease...it is, as the A.A. Big Book says, "CUNNING, BAFFLING, AND POWERFUL"... How could ANYONE really know what is going on??!!.

For goodness sake, the family doesn't know..the alcoholic doesn't know...even the trained therapists STILL have a hard time understanding this 'cunning, baffling, and powerful' disease.

And once you are in recovery, you DON'T just "wake up" and "understand" and "not act like a victim anymore"... the CUNNING-NESS of this disease...the BAFFLING-NESS of this disease continues........

**** And just because you INTELLECTUALLY KNOW BETTER, does NOT mean you don't love him anymore, does not mean you are not any more caught up in the process of victimization........

But ---- It DOES NOT HELP YOU ---IN FACT, IT HURTS YOU----IF I TELL YOU THAT NO ONE CAN VICTIMIZE YOU BUT YOURSELF.

Only if I tell you that I know you are being victimized ---FROM MY COMPASSION PLACE------ you will know that my heart really goes out to you......... and that I am WITH you...and that I understand you..... and THAT will help you to recover MUCH FASTER than if I tell you "you are not a victim....you are doing this to yourself."toby
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:28 AM
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yes yes and yes again!

In the beginning of my recovery I needed validation of where I was at at that stage. That it was like living in a asylum and somebody threw away the key. VALIDATION. The shame could have propelled me into recovery, but the most help was from people that told me that my situation was bad , but that I am worthy of recovery and that I was worthy of respect. Self- respct also. There is a subtle difference.

We are all shamed. We are already so ashamed when the blinders come off, to hear from well-meaning people that we must be crazy to take all of the nonsense is close to abuse again.

Just my opinion. I was very very sick with codependency. Thanks to God , therapy, SR I can go on with my life while my STBXH is in his fifteenth rehab!

love and validation to all still suffering!
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:53 AM
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Thank you for sharing this piece, Floss. It did help me and gave me an understanding that I didn't have before. I have been asked many times why I have stayed and why I don't have more secure boundaries. Now, I am better able to process those questions and reflect on my part of this disease, but at first those types of questions did feel a little blaming to me. I DID know I had options and I DID know that I wasn't being treated fairly and I DID know that I needed to take better care of myself. What I didn't know is that I wasn't alone ~ other people have been through the craziness also ~ and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't know that it wasn't my job to take care of my husband because he didn't seem able to take care of himself. I didn't feel validated, I guess.
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:58 AM
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You wrote such a wonderful, heartfelt post. Thank You!

I DID wake up one morning with so much anger and rage towards my alcoholic husband. I woke up on JAN 8th 2010 after suffering from vascular dementia. I was hospitalized on DEC 23rd from a life changing massive stroke. Once vascular dementia develops, there are no drugs currently approved by the FDA to treat it. I was able to come back into reality only by the Grace of God. However, I suffer from immobility problems and have trouble moving around.

I've had to go into individual therapy to help lessen my anger. For the majority of our 40 year marriage my husband actively drank over more than half a gallon of rum each and every night. When he finally quit he went cold turkey without working all his recovery steps. He is now a stinking thinking dry drunk. If it hadn't been for my 35 year old son becoming my caregiver for the last ten months, I don't know how I would have made it this far!

I feel it was through God's direction that I found SR. I have found it to be very helpful in releasing some of my anger by participating.

:ghug3
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by freefalling View Post
the most help was from people that told me that my situation was bad , but that I am worthy of recovery and that I was worthy of respect. Self- respct also. There is a subtle difference.

We are all shamed. We are already so ashamed when the blinders come off, to hear from well-meaning people that we must be crazy to take all of the nonsense is close to abuse again.
Thank you for writing this. This is exactly where I am right now. My big fear right now is that all of those well-meaning people will think I'm crazy. I know it's none of my business what they think, but it's still there.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:23 AM
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:52 AM
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I can't tell you how many times I've heard "You are sicker than the alcoholic is" here on SR and face to face.

Because I chose to love my insane AH. Because my vows meant something to me. Because he didn't act that way prior to our marriage.

Not helpful at all.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:24 PM
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Thank you for this wonderful post, Floss.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:45 PM
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being alcoholic myself i can understand the points you have posted, we know the alcoholic is full of that disease but in some cases isnt it like attracts like? I know some family members are affected more than others and DO need that Support and reassurance that they aren't to blame, but in some cases isnt the non drinker in the relationship somewhat controlling/blaming? as the alcoholic is? please do not think im causing an argument here that is so far from the truth, but in my expierience (counselling) ive seen it as bad in both parties, i agree with your early part of your post she was wrong, but did she know the full facts or did she know only a little? we know this is a family illness to which we both have A,A and AL-Anon to get us on the recovery program, i do meet a lot of narrow minded and ignorant people in my travels who really do not understand how this affects so many people, As its stated in the Big Book "the Alcoholic is like a tornado tearing through the lives of others"...Keith
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:27 PM
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Hi BigChief,

Firstly, I should clarify, I didn't write the above. I found it on the Getting Them Sober website written by Toby Drew, author, counsellor and site administrator. When I read it a few weeks ago, it was like a light turning on in my head. Finally, I felt as though I could accept where I am right now...and the light bulbs (and mini breakthroughs) have been turning on ever since.

I agree with what you say BC as I've experienced first hand that's it's not always the alcoholic who is the abusive/controlling/blaming one. I grew up with an alcoholic father. He was abused physically, mentally and verbally by my very abusive mother (she takes the freeze dried stuff..valium). As an adult, I have gone on to repeat the family disease. I have married hybrids of my mother and father, recreating the past. I've been married to alcoholics who have abandoned me (my dad left when I was 6) and abused me (my mother's abuse). It affects the whole family and this is why my recovery is so important! I want to become healthy so my children don't repeat history.

I'm happy to say, my dad has 9 years of sobriety! He took me to my first Al-Anon meeting 6 years ago. He and I are the only ones in the family who are in any type of recovery. I've attended Al-Anon on and off, more off than on though and my denial ran deep (I'm still breaking through it now). I started back at Al-Anon recently but, to be honest, felt like I needed more. I felt I needed another 12 step meeting and I decided to go to AA. I went for the first time about 3 weeks ago. Wow, what a turning point for me! I sat there and heard the RA's talking about their resentments, bitterness, frustrations, disappointments and I thought "They're talking about me! What's going on?" Then I heard them say they now have happiness, peace, serenity! "What? How come they have it and I don't? I want what some of what they have!". I spoke to an old timer and he could see the recognition in my face. I now understand, I have the dis-ease, I have the 'isms'. I have the spiritual malady. And yes, there have been times where I've picked up the drink and drank to get drunk! God, I'm so grateful I've realised this now!

I did more research and finally found the ACoA Laundry List a couple of weeks ago! Yay! More light bulb moments! Especially this one....13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. I just wish there was a ACoA meeting near me. And, yay, they have a big red book! I'm thinking about starting a meeting near me when I have a little more recovey under my belt.

Back to the abuse, shame, blame thing. My ex AH was so violently abusive, I wasn't 'allowed' to answer back, control, blame. I had to hold it all in. If I didn't, I know he could have killed me. As it was, my health deteriorated to such a degree, I thought I was going to die anyway. It's by the Grace of God, I got out of that (yep, and went on to another A, God help me!). I was so ashamed of the abuse, I couldn't even open up to a counsellor about it. I was also not believed by some people because he seemed like "such a cool guy!". When my dad took me to my first Al-Anon meeting, I said "I don't think my dad's alcoholism has affected me!". This was the extent of my deeply ingrained denial. Moving on to my next A, I did try to fix, blame, control...I found it soooo hard to let go and let God. Now I'm finding I'm enjoying the recovery process! I'm finally starting to 'get real' with myself and I'm starting to feel.

I just hope that my post helps others new to recovery as it helped me. I have found my healing has accelerated so much since I first read it!
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:36 PM
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I'm so glad people have found this post as useful, as I did. My heart goes out to everyone who has gone through this and Acdirito. Wow, you've been through a lot and it's so good you're finding recovery for yourself! I've read your reply quite a few times now, because I can understand how stress can trigger health problems. I've had a mini stroke and been diagnosed with an autoimmune illness. I'm finding I'm feeling angry at the moment. I've accepted that's where I am because I have suppressed it for so long. But now, after reading your reply, I know I need to vent appropriately and maybe even start meditating! God, imagine? I used to be able to do it. Maybe it's time to start again...
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:31 PM
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bigchief,
I agree with some of your comments, but I wanted to add that the shame I have felt has been mostly self-induced. The blame has mostly come from well-meaning friends, family and counselors in the recovery community. It has probably been self-induced as well. As for my AH and I - there has been plenty of blame on both sides to go around.
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:51 PM
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SteppingUp said: "My big fear right now is that all of those well-meaning people will think I'm crazy."
You have to go thru what you have to go thru in order to get where you need to go, I always say. If that means you have to go back and try again, then that is what needs to happen. But only YOU can know. IMO it can be a lot easier and more effective, to learn the lesson with THIS person than to go and find ANOTHER person and start all over again. Because IMO, life will keep bringing you the same lesson over and over until you learn it. You can change all the other players but you are still you. So, those people who "think you are crazy" for going back or for trying again just do not get it.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:45 AM
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Thank you for this, Floss. I read this when you first put it up and it has been on my mind ever since. It chimes with how my thinking has changed over the past few years, although my present thoughts are a little cloudy and I'm not sure that I am ready yet to put them into words, so apologies if I miss the point. I'll have a go.....

I know that I can come across a little, erm, abrasive on-line. And that sometimes that may come across as victim-blaming. In fact, I am sure that I am victim-blaming in the sense of your OP, although that is never my intention. I think those responses stem from my biggest lightbulb moment when I was in a relationship with an alcoholic - that I had choices. My world had become so narrow that I couldn't see beyond him changing or me putting up with it. That I had an active choice every day to stay or not in that relationship didn't really occur to me because I was so enmeshed in the situation. After I understood the 3 Cs, all(!) that was left for me to change was me and my reactions to, and actions regarding, the alcoholic and my life with or without him. Of course, I was exercising choice before that revelation, however it was not a conscious one. And it was me that ignored the red flags. It was partly my baggage that took me into that relationship and then kept me there. However, it was him that targeted me when I was vulnerable. It was him that manipulated me from day 1, who used my naivete against me. It was him that spun the lies and hid the bottles and insisted on talking late into the night so that I was constantly tired (and hence more vulnerable) and guilt tripped me into having sex with him etc etc. The responsibility for being a ****head stops with him. I am becoming increasingly hard-line about this, actually. That is someting I need to be aware of when posting on-line because it is too easy to invoke the "but i love him" retreat in a newbie.

If I had never met him, I would have probably ended up in a common or garden relationship, with some tricky times that a spot of therapy would have cleared up (partly joking). As it was, I ended up in a situation that is still having an effect on me 5 years later. I am grumpily grateful now, because I prefer the person that I am now than the person I would probably have become had I not met him.

Of course, recovery is a process and just like running before I could walk would not have worked for me, I have to remind myself that it is the same for others. No matter that I want to save them some pain by nudging them further along the path before they are ready or that I am probably actually speaking to myself when I am responding to someone else. I still do it because I am still recovering.

I thank you deeply for this post and I shall bear it in mind every single time I post a resonse to someone.
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolina View Post
My world had become so narrow that I couldn't see beyond him changing or me putting up with it. That I had an active choice every day to stay or not in that relationship didn't really occur to me because I was so enmeshed in the situation. After I understood the 3 Cs, all(!) that was left for me to change was me and my reactions to, and actions regarding, the alcoholic and my life with or without him. Of course, I was exercising choice before that revelation, however it was not a conscious one. And it was me that ignored the red flags. It was partly my baggage that took me into that relationship and then kept me there. However, it was him that targeted me when I was vulnerable. It was him that manipulated me from day 1, who used my naivete against me. It was him that spun the lies and hid the bottles and insisted on talking late into the night so that I was constantly tired (and hence more vulnerable) and guilt tripped me into having sex with him etc etc. The responsibility for being a ****head stops with him.
These are great points. And while I have great respect for Toby Rice Drews, I think she has missed the mark a bit here. She seems to be drawing a bright line between blaming the codependent or blaming the alcoholic. I don't think that line is so sharp, and in fact, don't personally believe it needs to be drawn at all.

I think the line is between taking responsibility for our own behavior, versus taking responsibility for someone elses. I don't feel the need to find fault in my circumstances. And I don't personally feel that there has to be "blame." Although I do understand the feeling of "if it's not my fault, it must be his," and vice-versa.

I do see how bringing this up can be perceived by someone as blaming them. On the other hand, I have seen many times (on this board and IRL) the other end of the spectrum. People who refuse to take any responsibility in their own circumstances and continually blaming others. (Sound like any A's you know?) I mean, how different is it to blame drinking on a terrible childhood, personal tragedy, or bad luck of "having a disease?"

I don't know if I've articulated this very well, but I think taking the concept of "blame" out if it all together is a healthier approach than shifting the blame to the alcoholic. The alcoholic owns sole responsibility for his choices and behavior, and I own mine.

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Old 10-24-2010, 01:25 PM
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My counsellor banned me from using the word blame in our sessions. And also hypocrisy, a word I used liberally in my blaming days. At the risk of getting all Dr Phil, taking 100% of the responsibility for my 50% of a relationship is the only reasonable stance for me to take. That and leaving the other parties 50% where it belongs.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:53 AM
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This is fantastic. Thank you for posting.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:07 AM
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great post and responses, thanks!
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:14 AM
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[QUOTE][QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Floss View Post
Something stirred in m
e



thank you, so much for posting this. i have at times been told here at sr that i am as sick as my as. that i am doing this to myself. those things made me feel shame, and did not help. the things that help are those kind individuals who offer a shoulder, and no criticism, but support and encouragement.

i hope that all could read this. it is so hard when your heart is broken and you dont know what to do next, for someone to basically try to force you to do what they think is right for you.

i know to take what i need and leave the rest, but sometimes, i fear posting , knowing that some may add to my pain. and who needs that?
If I did nothave this site, i dont know what i would do. it has made a very big difference in my situation, and is helping me.

thank you so much, for this.

hugs,
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:37 AM
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It is so very EASY to shame and blame the other people in our lives for virtually everything that happens to us and around us.
The hard part is realizing you are doing it, owning up to it, and stopping yourself each and every time it happens. I think doing so is a huge part of Recovery.
It doesn't matter where it starts, whether with an alcoholic, with you, or with anyone else. What matters is the sickness is creates and how much you perpetuate it.
There is plenty of it everywhere you turn.
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