sailorjohn

Therefore, she is amongst scum in my opinion

That was harsh, in my opinion.

Nothing that followed the original post was anywhere near as harsh as that particular statement. Not even close.

But going back to my original posts-and just about all of the others I read here-the advice offered was standard advice that I read over and over again, here and elsewhere.

The truth may be harsh, but living in a fantasy can be infinitely harsher in the end, when the individual finally wakes up and realizes they've been living in a dream world.

KittyP

No, definitely not just Floss. To be frank, I found it quite upsetting that someone should come looking for advice on what can be a very serious issue and be treated like that.

Floss

[QUOTE=sailorjohn;2745045]I may just be you.

This is where I made my mistake. I asked for other's opinions about whether I was right about what my gut was saying and it goes back to all the abuse/codie stuff where my feelings, observations and beliefs have been thrown in my face and where I learnt as a child that I didn't see what I saw, hear what I heard or felt what I felt. And as an adult I have carried my lack of self esteem throughout my relationships as well as the shame and blame of being abused and I've been told I'm the one who's insane and seeing it all wrong. Next time I'll have enough faith in myself to say "I believe some people have been harsh".

Floss

And now I feel courageous enough to say that I was fuming when I read some of the replies. The OP is so new to recovery and Still Waters and Kitty, I agree he doesn't deserve to be treated with sarcasm, harshness or a 'holier than thou' attitude. I'm new to recovery myself and I'm just scratching the surface of what recovery is all about. Being new to recovery, most of the time I've found I have little confidence to post. In time, I'm hoping to be able to participate more.

And yes, OP's 'scum' comment may have been 'harsh' but as I said, he's new to recovery, his GF has gone to AA and has an awful experience and OP is feeling angry. I've been through the anger too. Also, there are a lot of court ordered people in recovery (where I live anyway). One of my friends runs a court ordered support group for men who have been violent towards their spouses due to drinking/alcoholism. My XADFH was court ordered to rehab and AA for violating an AVO. And alcohol induced violence is on the increase (well it is here, in Australia anyway). And yes, then there's the 'garden variety' like my dad who is in AA. Wouldn't hurt anyone while he's drinking (except for himself).

Maybe those with more recovery under their belt need to remember where they were right at the beginning.

Learn2Live

Floss, Is there something I can help you with? I am not sure which post has you angry but Perhaps there is something you would like to send to one of the Mods, who would be in a better position to help you? What you do is go to the post that bothers you and click on the triangle with the exclamation mark.

I have done a bit of anger management work in the recent past. I had to learn that my anger is my responsibility. I can choose to be angry about something someone said or did, and I can choose to not be angry. I am glad that SR allows me a place to interact with others (have on-line relationships with others) where I can learn about and practice new ways of seeing and dealing with my feelings.

gerryP

Learn to Live

???

I understood where Floss was coming from.

Floss

Hi, thanks Learn 2 Live,

All I know is that I read through this whole thread and I understand that the OP may have said some things that were harsh but I found some of the replies even harsher. As a newcomer, I've found it very hard to post, still do. And seeing it from sugardaddies perspective, I wonder if he'll ever feel confident to post again.

Sometimes stark reality is too hard to face at the beginning and sometimes people need to be guided or reminded gently that they're off the mark (eg generalising about A's) and it seemed that's what happened at the start but then as I continued to read, I saw it progress in such a way that it became more blaming and the OP found himself having to justify for saying and feeling the way he does right now. Remember, we're talking about someone who's posted here for the first time, not someone with any experience of recovery.

With regard to anger. I've been the master of suppression. I probably did this because I grew up in abuse and as an adult decided I never wanted to be like my mother. I was the one who never got angry. The last time I truly felt angry before now was when I was a teen. Lately, I've found the anger surfacing again. I've accepted that's where I am in my grieving process and I know in time it will pass. I probably need help in expressing it appropriately so I don't suppress it again. Right now I just feel it simmering. On another thread, there was someone who said she comes here to vent and that's what's helping her. AA helps me too.

Thanks again Learn 2 Live. And I apologise if I've offended anyone with my comments.

Learn2Live

You do realize that the OP has gone on, apparently not too bothered by what was posted in response since he hasn't been back, but that you are still upset and continue to post about it? (I am not saying you are "wrong" about anything).

grateful2b

Floss, I appreciate your share, and I understand where you are coming from.
I am glad you are in a place where you are allowing your grieving process...

Floss

Well, I'm not surprised the OP has gone on. That's what I was saying. I pretty much guessed he'd never be back. I actually wrote in one of my posts and then deleted it that if it were me, I'd probably run. What a shame he didn't feel comfortable to stay. Maybe something to think about for the future hey?

Or maybe we can just sit here and blame him some more for not accepting the harsh reality and criticism and make it his problem he didn't feel safe enough to post again.

Floss

Thanks Grateful2b

Learn2Live

"As a newcomer, I've found it very hard to post, still do. And seeing it from sugardaddies perspective, I wonder if he'll ever feel confident to post again."
Floss, hon, I personally didn't find anything harsh or horrible in the responses and I thought the OP held his own pretty well. He called peeople out on things a couple times. What I want to say to you is that although it SEEMS that people are being harsh and uncaring, they may not be. This is not to discount anything you are feeling or observing or saying. I am glad you are, that's why I am talking to you. Because I have also very recently gone thru what you are going thru. I want to say that yes, you DO have a right to feel your feelings, trust your gut, and avoid toxic people. But what seems toxic to you may not be toxic to me. I encourage you to start a new thread about your feelings from YOUR perspective. Please don't let what you feel is harshness discourage you from sharing. Give it time and you will see these folks in a different light.

Floss

Thanks L2L.
Reading what you just wrote brought tears to my eyes...don't know why yet. Will have to think about it. I just wonder why OP felt as though he had to hold is own? Could it be because he felt attacked? And exactly, it's all about perspective. I understand that. We all see things in our own way. Because I felt upset reading this thread, I posted the thread on Shame and Blame. I'll begin to post more, slowly but surely and I'm grateful to be here. Thanks again.

CatsPajamas

It seems this thread has run its course with plenty of answers to the OP.

Remember,we are all at different places in our recovery.Some of us are brand new here with questions and no idea where to turn.Others have had some experience with As yet continue to have questions and challenges. Regardless, we need to remember to treat one another with dignity and respect. There are no quick answers or easy solutions to the relationships problems that come with the disease of alcoholism.

I recommend we move on. I will close the thread if necessary.

Learn2Live

I can't speak for the OP, maybe he'll come back and tell us how he felt.
My desire was to draw your attention away from the OP, away from the question of who is right and who is wrong, and let you see that I think these might be feelings you are having about and for yourself. We "codies" tend to have way too much empathy for others but neglect our own feelings. I also didn't want you to feel scared to post and wanted to show you that if someone's post bothers you, the Mods are always there for you to help you.

Floss

Thanks L2L

meditation

We as a group can't decide if your ex is lying or not and it's not our place to decide if she's trying to avoid AA. You asked if this is common and I say it is fairly run of the mill AA meeting etiquette. People that attend AA meetings aren't all oldtimers that are well, not that all oldtimers are well but the point is that people that go to these meetings are in various stages of sickness. Some don't even know that hitting on people at meetings is a no no. It's all a part of diverting from looking at our own problems. And in small towns that don't have other 12 step programs a person with a sex addiction, drug addiction, gambling addiction is stuck attending an alcoholics 12 step because it's the only one in town. So you don't know who is there or why but but it's all part of the illness/sickness/disease of addiction.
You can't control it, I've been hit on in meetings, and groped and whatnot. I just ignore it, say no walk away and go on about my recovery work.

I did not realize the OP had not come back or the thread had run it's course, oops.

akrasia

This is nonsense.

I absolutely agree that what she reports is entirely plausible. She needs to be assertive about this, not just sit there cringing with her cell phone ready to dial 911. Her plan of action needs to be 1. tell them to knock it off, and 2. have an immediate word with the chair of the group, who then needs to tell (not ask) the offending parties to knock it off or leave. If these two men can't manage to act like decent human beings then they need not to be there.

She's not going to get any benefit from going if she's getting sexually harassed the whole time. And if the chair of the group won't take responsibility for sorting that out, then it's not an AA group, it's just a mess.

And that's where her responsibility comes in: if she's going to take her recovery seriously, she needs to just recognize whether a group is really a recovery group or a mess.

It's definitely possible that this "AA" group has been taken over by predatory pervs--so instead of dithering and wringing her hands and wearing earplugs and running to you she needs to just be like, "Right--so this is useless. On to the next option!"

I guarantee there are other options for her recovery within reach to her, if she's serious.

KittyP

My impression is the opposite. The fact he hasn't been back may show just how upsetting he could have found the responses.

DesertEyes

Okay folks, there's plenty of other newcomers who could use a little compassion and support. If you have any to share please do so with those other folks.

I am closing this thread.

Mike
Moderator, SR