tryintosmile

I'm finally getting it - slowly, but surely. I haven't posted here for a long time, but I'm back - because I'm still dealing with this. I've made some progress though, because I've been learning how to set boundaries. Man - they're tough - but the result is nothing like one would expect. I'm fearful when I make them, but I've had to ask myself what the worst thing that could happen would be, and it's mostly that he yells and has a fit, swears, makes awful accusations, etc. but I've been through it all before and realize that I can handle it.

I'm still plagued with the circular arguments and don't know how to truly disengage myself from them, and would love some advice for that. I mean - when they follow you from room to room and you can't get away, and you've nowhere to go, and you don't want to anger them even more, it IS difficult.

But I HAVE realized something very important. Their reality really IS skewed. They're not seeing (through their drunken eyes) what we're seeing. We can watch the same thing happen, yet it's not just that their interpretation is different. Their whole view of something is often nothing like it really was. He also often threw other things into the mix that never even occured. I never got this before and it drove me insane. Almost like gaslighting - arguing that it's not what I saw or how it happened, was such a losers game for me. I've stopped doing that. I finally understand.

I believe somewhere, deep down, they do know the truth, but it's like they're seeing what they want or need to see, which is far from what is really happening. I'd love to know what alcohol really does to the brain - regarding changing a Dr. Jekyll into a Mr. Hyde. In my case, anyway - I'm dealing with two very distinctively different personalities.

It's so easy to allow the wool to be pulled over your eyes, and then suddenly you are doubting your own reality. This is really a good lesson to learn. It allows me to separate myself from his warped views, so that I don't get caught up or confused about what is REALLY happening ...

naive

responding to the circular arguments...i found it best not to engage and give a non-commital answer...

for example,

"hmmm. i'll think about that..."

as for not being able to escape, you can always leave the house and go for a walk. or you could put headphones on, or go for a bath, or make a pretend phone call to no one...

but, the real question is, why do you want to continue living like this?

Pelican

Here is a link to one of our sticky (permanent) posts. It contains excerpts from the book "Under the Influence". That book helped me to understand how the alcoholic become addicted physically, and mentally. Here is the link:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

Daybreak

I've have also spent quite a bit of time, lately, considering the phenomena you describe. Especially the circular arguments -- day long struggles (over the phone) that leave me feeling mauled by a grizzly bear, as somebody here put it. His capacity for logical reasoning and/or compassionate understanding is nil. The anger is always right under the surface-- ALWAYS. I have learned not to trust a rational facade. Setting a boundary results in anger, curses, threats -- then ass-kissing. Which is not a satisfactory resolution of issues.

Another thing - at times my AH seems to have a rather high IQ and at other times he seems to be nearly brain dead. Holes in the brain caused by alcohol, I suppose.

And he's so shifty. If I give honesty and transparency and vulnerability -- he ducks and weaves and twists all to serve his own agenda-- the hell with healing of any kind. AH has been sober 51 days. Today we have gone 72 hours without one of those circular arguments. I'm extremely serene because I'll be unplugging the phone within seconds, if (when) he initiates the next one. Of course, my AH has an undiagnosed personality disorder of some kind and not all alcoholics have a dual diagnosis. At least, I don't think they do.

tryintosmile

Oh Naive - I've tried these kinds of things and as I said - he follows me. When I go to leave the house, he gets angrier and most times I feel it's easier to stay and find a way to qwell the situation. Not sure why I'm still here, though. Guess the longer you're in, the harder it becomes to get out, but I'm actually spending more time imagining what it WILL be like WHEN I go, and I'm not as afraid of those thoughts any longer ...

Thanks for the link Pelican - I'll check that out

And Daybreak ~~~ you also describe my AH to a 'T'. I think it's that confusion of knowing the real person vs the 'brain dead' one, that leads us to believe that some day that person will be whole again. It's sad that we're putting ourselves through this though. When I see someone write about what they're 'going through', my first reaction is 'why don't YOU leave?' - yet I have a hard time finally making the move, myself.

TeM

I know what you mean. That's been my experience with my AW, and it seems to be fairly universal with alcoholics, at least based on what I've read here.

My AW refuses to admit she has a problem, even as she's recovering from an alcohol-related broken ankle. It's just unbelievable to me... but she is apparently looking through a mental haze. I'm gradually taking control of our finances, because I just don't trust her judgement any more.

Best wishes.

Hadassah

[QUOTE=naive;2739490]responding to the circular arguments...i found it best not to engage and give a non-commital answer...

for example,

"hmmm. i'll think about that..."

as for not being able to escape, you can always leave the house and go for a walk. or you could put headphones on, or go for a bath, or make a pretend phone call to no one...

I just flat out told him that I would not talk to him when he had anything, and I meant anything, to drink. It took a couple of times, but he finally decided to leave me alone when he was drinking.

but, the real question is, why do you want to continue living like this?

Yes, why do you? H