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Manipulation

Old 10-16-2010, 09:33 AM
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Manipulation

Hello, I've been lurking for a while, and I just wanted to say thank you for this site. It's helping me a lot.
This little rant is about the amazing ability the alcoholic is at manipulation.
My son is 28 and has been drinking/drugging since he was 16. I have been lending him money, finding him furniture(because he keeps abandoning his)lending him money, lending him money.
Anyway I finally said no more. You are on your own. So what does he do? He goes in the back door. He moves in with his struggling single mother sister(wow, did you understand that?).
So now he isn't working, isn't paying rent, is eating all her food. He doesn't care that I won't lend him any money, because I will lend her money to pay his share. He knows I won't let her and my granddaughter loose thier place.
I was going to say I don't know what to do, but it just hit me. I won't lend her money if he is living there, she has to kick him out and get a paying renter. Duh! To give her credit she has made it the last two months on her own without help from me. But that is not good, I guess in a way because now she has no reason to kick him out. She is such a softie she says she is trying to help him! Huh? You are barely able to look after yourself you don't need to help him! He poured on the tears one day, said he wants to get help. He went to a couple of AA meetings, but is back to his old ways. Just enough to get her to feel sorry for him.AAARRRRGGGGHHHH.
Just when I think I can let him go and not worry anymore, he manages to get in my life other ways.
Thanks for listening.......
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:49 AM
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OH man..that situation stinks to high heavens!

I was in a similar situation helping my daughter and grandson. I wanted to help them.
She was going to college and raising that precious baby who had some health issues.
I didn't want her to get a job in addition to that.
But, the daddy was a free-loading, pot addict, who did nothing but play video games, lie to her and refuse all responsibilities.
And she was going crazy with it too.

I never did resolve it on my own.

She wound up blowing up at me...misplaced frustration, if you ask me.
I cut off the funds.
It took a few months and alot of heartache..but she did eventually throw him out.

Something I still don't understand is how I became the "bad guy" and unfortunately this still is unresolved.

In any case, she is in a better place.
He found someone else and is basically unchanged,...well, he did finally have to get a real job.

And I trust that someday...she and I will work this out.
The mother/daughter thing is fraught with complications naturally, I figure.

Your daughter will get SICK of it at some point.

So, really..no advice..just commiseration.

((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

It's tough being a mom!
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:18 AM
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It seems to be common for addicts to center their lives around the addictive substance, no matter what it costs them or their families. My own AW will not agree to quit drinking, even though she's spending enough on booze to pay our utility bills, knowing that our financial situation is precarious.

She recently fell and broke her ankle, which will end up costing us thousands out of pocket, not to mention the extra burden on me to take care of her. She acts all sweet and says thank you, but has yet to apologize, and refuses to admit her problem.

She's also manipulative to some degree, at least with those who still feel sorry for her (I don't any more). She lied to her family about the accident, so they think I'm some kind of ogre for not staying home with her, or hiring someone to baby sit (neither of which we can afford).

Apparently, it goes with the territory. It's frustrating and maddening for those of us who put up with it out of a sense of love, guilt, obligation... or whatever.

Good luck to you.
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:47 PM
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Welcome to the SR family!

I'm sorry that your son has found another soft landing. And it happens to be a single mom with her own child to care for. Ugh!

Have you tried Alanon meetings for yourself? Your daughter would also benefit from the support at Alanon. The meetings are based on the same 12 steps of AA but tailored for friends and family members of alcoholics.

Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. Here is a link that contains steps that have helped some of us:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
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Old 10-16-2010, 04:13 PM
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Thank you for the responses. You know the funny (well not really) thing is my daughter just left her husband last Nov. because of his drinking, but brought alcoholic brother with her! I'm not sure why, but she thought he would pay her his rent in the new place but he didn't in the old place???She had the courage to leave one but not the other. I have told her she should go to al-anon but finds excuses not to go. For some reason she thinks his alcoholism is different.
Oh, well, she will get tired of him.....I hope.

Thank you Pelican for the link, I will read that.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:14 AM
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Just a little update: my daughter grew a set and kicked her brother out. He is to be out the end of the month. Hopefully there will be no problems there. He has lost his job again, he only had this one for two weeks so I'm sure he will make her feel bad-"where am I supposed to go? I have no money to pay rent(but he seems to find money for booze). But she seems strong, knows this will be coming and is at least preparing herself.

Now I need some advice: for Christmas our family draws names for gifts. Alcoholic son drew daughter # 3. I drew AS. He doesn't have any money (he had a job when names were drawn). So my instinct is to get a gift card that would be appropriate for a boy or girl, that way when he doesn't get anything for daughter, I just give her his gift. But my struggle with this is, again I am rescuing him, right? But I also don't want to see daughter hurt at Christmas. Not that she is frail or anything. Actually of all my kids, she is the strongest, not gonna take any crap from anyone kid.
So, what do you think, give her his gift, or let him feel stupid and her feel bad(actually she will probably be more mad)?
(I hope this wasn't too confusing)
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Thanks for the update!

You don't have to solve the Christmas gift giving by 3 p.m. today, right?

I can see your post filled with worry for other peoples reactions and feelings.

What is the worst thing that will happen at Christmas?

Son doesn't get anything for Sister?
Sister gets mad? Who will she get mad at?
What is your responsibility in that situation?

I am a rescuer. I don't like to see my children get their feelings hurt. I guess that is a normal mom instinct.
However, I also don't want to shelter my children from the consequences of their choices. I learned most of my life lessons the hard way, so I am going to try and let my children learn their own lessons.

Experience is a valuable teacher!

It does get better! I promise!

I have learned to embrace uncertainty in my recovery. In the past, I would project outcomes based on my previous experiences. Then I would try to control the outcomes by forcing my will into situations. My limited thinking was based on my past. I was closing my mind to the unknown possibilities.

In recovery, I am learning to be patient. More will be revealed. I am learning my HP (higher power) has options/solutions I haven't considered. If I let go and let my HP take control, I am often pleasantly surprised at what is revealed.

Wishing you peace on your journey!
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Thanks for the update!

You don't have to solve the Christmas gift giving by 3 p.m. today, right?
LOL! I do like to get a head start on my worrying!

Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Experience is a valuable teacher!
You're right...Daughter is tough and can handle her own. Son is a twit. I will just have to let this play out on its own and quit stewing.

Thanks
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:54 AM
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Welcome Teabouv!
What I learned by being on this board is allllll the worrying and fixing and stewing and hoping and wishing and trying to help and trying to control and thinking about and fussing about...others.
You might want to pick up a copy of Codependent No More by Melody Beattie, which has been a lifesaver for many of us.
I now work on catching myself in the cycle of fussing and go back to some deep breaths. I ask myself, "where am I right now and what needs to be done right now?"
That keeps me more still and less stressed.
I also work on remembering that the Universe (insert God, your Higher Power, your Deeper Knowing, the Goddess - whatever) will take care of others (and me) if I just relax and trust.

Wishing you
peace
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:47 AM
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Teabouv
I can relate to your situation regarding your son. My son is the A in our family. Very close in age to yours......but his sister cut him out of her life quite a while ago. He's currently in rehab and we are hopeful (but no expectations).

I have allowed my son to live with his mistakes and face the consequences.....all the way to living on the street. Gift card? I learned that lesson. He exchanged the gift card for drugs! So now? Gifts are gloves, underwear, sweatshirts or anything that will at least keep him warm if he goes back to living on the streets again......and most drug dealers don't want to exchange drugs for used underwear. lol

It's tough being the Mom of an alcoholic/addict. But we need to keep our sense of humor through all of this....

gentle hugs
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:14 AM
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Thanks, Kindeyes

it's so maddening though...why should he get anything?

And a sense of humor is the best thing for me. It really is a stress reliever!
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:01 AM
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Manipulation of emotions does seem to always come to the forefront with an alcoholic/addict, they do what they have to do in order to feed their addiction. It really is a survival instinct, the same one that each and everyone of us has, I just think we become very aware of the manipulation as we watch our loved one sink further and further into addiction.

If you pay close attention, we all manipulate in ways to give our psyche a sense of well being and comfort, though it may not always be the right thing to do. Kind of like dumping the alcoholic's bottle, we think that is fixing the problem at the time, but I think it also gives us some sort of relief (though temporary) in dealing with the madness of addiction.

You are taking the correct stance with your tough love of AS. His siblings will get it eventually, their game of pity and guilt only lasts for so long before eyes get opened. You also can't worry about how situations play out, so if someone is hurt by your son's actions (like not buying a gift), let it happen, we all know that the alcoholic/addict will keep hurting the one's they love until they get sober.

My thoughts and prayers...
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