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Broke up with alcoholic boyfriend

Old 09-30-2010, 03:18 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Smart guy. But slimey if you ask me. And he sounds like he's got a Personality Disorder.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:19 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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he can't even give you a week's peace?
and if you respond to this..you will be teaching him that he can override your thinking and anything you say via a "better argument"

so what he thinks you are his dream girl...is he your dream guy?
I don't think so or else you wouldn't have wanted to break it off.

How are you supposed to be able to think when floooded with all those words? You're not and THAT is the point of it.

Stay true to yourself.
That is the basis of all self-respect.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:20 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Girl, why do you wanna be hangin around some crusty, drunk 36 year old?
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:26 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Just got to this thread and all I have read is his e-mail to you. My opinion: This guy is trying to manipulate you. He has already given excuses why working a program won't work for him. He is confused about what AA suggests regarding relationships and he is pulling statistics out of the air to justify not working a program.

You don't have to give him any answers right now. If he isn't willing to give you the space you need, then he isn't worth your time. His phrase that love doesn't wait is simply a load of BS! Love is patient and kind and most definitely DOES wait. I hope you will see this e-mail for what it is. An attempt at manipulation.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:55 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Wow, that language could be written by my AH.

The first paragraph is CLASSIC--"You are so beautiful, WAIT, I can't even speak right now because I don't want to disrupt this moment....."

All the way to the last.... "You and I are in this together and we can conquer anything with our love."

He wants you to consider it a face-to-face dialogue because he's even better at manipulating in person.

Honestly. One question: Do you want to be where I am right now? I'm 58, 33 years married and not much has changed except we're both 33 years older.

Well, I hope I'm getting wiser--as for him, he's just drinking more.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:02 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Wow, his e-mail creeps me out, too. And here's why: I'm starting to see your boyfriend put into place the items on Gavin DeBecker's "Pre-incident Indicators Associated with Spousal Abuse" list, which I posted last week in response to another post, but feel it may be prudent to post it here again:

Following is a list of pre-incident indicators associated with spousal abuse:

1. The woman has intuitive feelings that she is at risk.
2. At the inception of the relationship, the man accelerated the pace, prematurely placing on the agenda such things as commitment, living together, and marriage.
3. He resolves conflict with intimidation, bullying, and violence.
4. He is verbally abusive.
5. He uses threats and intimidation as instruments of control or abuse.
6. He breaks or strikes things in anger.
7. He has battered in prior relationships.
8. He uses alcohol or drugs with adverse affects.
9. He cites alcohol or drugs as an excuse or explanation for hostile or violent conduct.
10. His history includes police encounters for behavioral offenses.
11. There has been more than one incident of violent behavior.
12. He uses money to control the activities, purchases, and behavior of his wife/partner.
13. He becomes jealous of anyone or anything that takes her time away from the relationship.
14. He refuses to accept rejection.
15. He expects the relationship to go on forever, perhaps using phrases like "together for life," "always," "no matter what."
16. He projects extreme emotions onto others (hate, love, jealousy, commitment) even when there is no evidence that would lead a reasonable person to perceive them.
17. He minimizes incidents of abuse.
18. He spends a disproportionate amount of time talking about his wife/partner and derives much of his identity from being her husband, lover, etc.
19. He tries to enlist his wife's friends or relatives in a campaign to keep or recover the relationship.
20. He has inappropriately surveilled or followed his wife/partner.
21. He believes others are out to get him.
22. He resists change and is described as inflexible, unwilling to compromise.
23. He identifies with or compares himself to violent people in films, news stories, function, or history.
24. He suffers mood swings or is sullen, angry, or depressed.
25. He consistently blames others for problems of his own making.
26. He refers to weapons as instruments of power, control, or revenge.
27. Weapons are a substantial part of his persona; he has a gun or he talks about, jokes about, reads about, or collects weapons.
28. He uses "male privilege" as a justification for his conduct (treats her like a servent, makes all the big decisions, acts like the "master of the house").
29. He experienced or witnessed violence as a child.
30. His wife/partner fears he will injure or kill her. She has discussed this with others or has plans to be carried out in the event of her death (e.g., designating someone to care for her children).

Excerpts from "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker

And while I believe he's just in the beginning of the "I will control her" stage, I'm certain if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile. You may think he's smart, but I believe you're smarter, or you wouldn't be posting here with concerns that "something smells fishy."

I believe what we have here is another ROUS, or rodent of unusual size. Seems to be quite an infestation of them in this neck of the woods lately.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:02 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Guys like your boyfriend are the precise reason I work out like a madman and eat healthy and try to stay fit.

I will be 70 when my daughter is 21, and I promise you I will gladly go up side ANY 36 yo's head that tries to "date" my daughter.

Your boyfriend is a predator. How do I know, you may ask?

Because that is what I was when I was 36 and "dating" 21 yo girls.

Where is your dad?

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:24 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Dallying, your boyfriend's email was eerily familiar to me. On and on with all the big words. He wants what he wants and he is "rambling". Turn down the volume, and listen to your own voice.

You are a smart young woman. You have so much ahead of you; I wish I could tell you how lucky you are to get out now.

When I was fairly new to SR, one of these lovely and wise people suggested I make a list of good and bad, things I loved about him and things that made me unhappy and uncomfortable. Helped me a lot. I love my A very much, but I am taking time away to let him work on his recovery and for me to take care of myself and get some much needed peace and distance. If we are meant to be together we will be. Now is not the time.

You have your whole life ahead of you. I am 52 years old, and I am taking all the time I need.
If in the meantime, someone else crosses my path, then...you just never know.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:25 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Smarmy sophomoric bullcrap.

When I first read it I thought, oh god, a messed up kid in his early twenties, trying to make excuses for himself. Hope he quits bothering women and gets a clue someday.

But he's 36? That's three years younger than me! Naw, mm-mm. There's something wrong with him.

I don't mean to sound patronizing, and I do appreciate that you're a mature 21-year-old, but guys my age who pursue 21-year-olds are creeps.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:44 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Blecch. Ugh. Creepy. The guy is completely full of himself.

And YOU are young and already smart enough (wise enough!) to see through his BS! Trust yourself! Honestly...if this guy were the one for you, you wouldn't be at a forum like this, asking others' opinions.

It's your life, your future, but can I just make a suggestion? RUN, fast and far. Chalk it up to life experience, learn from it, and get out before it gets harder. Listen to the people here who wish they would have run fast and far when they were your age (I'm one of them.) Okay...that was more than one suggestion, but...wow...this guy has "master manipulator" written between all of the lines in that email.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:49 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Here, I'll have a go at translating:

I know you mentioned a one week time frame which certainly is your prerogative, however love doesn’t wait.

I respect your wishes, except I don't.

I don’t mean that facetiously.

I know big words. Also I have the need to say I'm honest. So you know I'm honest.

When I saw you leaning over your journal diligently writing, wearing your beautiful dress with you elbow bent focused and writing in earnest, I stood and stared at you forever. I didn’t want to approach you and alert you to my presence because I knew that the moment would end.

I'm creepy.

I have identified quite a “character flaw” in my character, i.e. addiction. I have acknowledged it and believe it or not, am addressing it.

Better not believe it.

I wouldn’t have ended up in the “ward” if I didn’t know there was a problem. However, I do believe, contrary to yours, your sister’s(s), and clearly popular opinion that I can both carry on a beneficial interpersonal relationship and work on my sobriety.

I like "sarcastic quotes." Also I'm a misunderstood rebel. Also--I know big words.

See… the dialogue, writings and basis for much of the dogma supporting “rules and guidelines” of “getting sober” that today’s expert’s utilize is clearly in question on many levels. There are no obvious answers.

See above re: maverick.

Look at the simple statistics from Alcoholics’ Anonymous. AA does not supply names, but they do supply plenty of demographics and numbers to better understand the disease. AA’s success rate is a variance of 2.6 to 3.5% based on a 5 year timeframe and those statistics diminish as those timeframes are extended. Needless to say, other supplied defining stats are even less hopeful. I will not allow myself to be defeated by myself or any outside influence - for that matter. I will utilize outside education but to a level that I deem effective. So when AA says you shouldn’t be in a relationship for the first year of sobriety, I question their wisdom and efficacy because in the end, who really knows. We have empirical studies, but that is all that psychology, substance abuse education, and the like can be based on. The individuality of human nature is such that most every diagnosis in the DSM-IV of psychiatric disorders includes a NOS moniker, aka “unspecified” referencing the fact that the clinician cannot give an accurate specific determination of the particular individual’s condition or possible outcome. Thus we are talking psychology and psychiatric medicine as an art and clearly not a science.

I know how to cut and paste from Wikipedia. Also, I like to use--sorry--utilize statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp-post: for support rather than illumination.

The individual who responded to the concerned girlfriend in the email that you had me read spouted quite a few of the AA clichés and if that works for him, more power to him. Once, again, I will accept portions of such programs, but am intelligent enough to know myself and my underlying deceits to tailor a more specified program that best suits my needs and situation, and will hopefully give me a much higher chance of success.

I think sobriety is for losers and dumb people. Also, I'm intelligent. You can tell because I've told you so.

I guess you could go out with a guy who only drinks tea…then you’d know for sure. That was an LOL.

You'll end up with a nerd if you don't go out with me.

Clearly, I can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to do nor would I want you to.

See above re: creepy.

You are an independent and thoughtful woman and I love you for that. If I have lost you, then I will take that as a very strong lesson learned. But believe me and understand this in no uncertain terms, I am much more in control of my life than you or I would have you believe. What I have done is make supremely poor choices on many an occasion. For this I apologize to myself for shortchanging who I could and can be and certainly to you for hurting you in quite a number of ways. You have been nothing more than an innocent victim who has been nothing but generous with her mind and heart. Your kindness and caring will never be forgotten.

Maybe if I keep writing you won't notice that I'm not taking responsibility for anything.

Your wisdom is noteworthy and I’m telling you now that any time I make a reference to you being 21 yrs old, it is nothing more than a cheap shot and total ********. It is also nothing more than a diversion from any valid point that you are attempting to present and I truly apologize for that.

I'll generously try to refrain from mentioning that I know better, because I'm older.

Once again, I agree with the direction that you believe that I need to take; I simply disagree with you in the way about getting there. I believe I can get there with you by my side better than if you are not.

I want to keep drinking and I want you to quit mentioning it.

Either way, I will get there. I would love you to be there because my great joy is hearing your laughter, seeing your smile, and feeling your warmth. Should you not be there to provide those things, I will always have them in my mind’s eye as they won’t be forgotten.

You have to take care of me.

PLEASE CONSIDER A FACE TO FACE DIALOGE WITH ME

IF ALL ELSE FAILS, START SHOUTING

JACK

Butthead
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:56 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Oh, and I don't believe he accidentally ran into you at the bookstore. I think he followed you there.

I kinda don't believe he's a lawyer either.

Hey, take care of yourself. Spend some time with chums, vent here, maybe go away for a couple of days if you can.

Hugs
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:01 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by akrasia View Post
Oh, and I don't believe he accidentally ran into you at the bookstore. I think he followed you there.

I kinda don't believe he's a lawyer either.
I agree that he probably followed you to the bookstore.

But, I totally believe he is a lawyer, lol. That whole email was "opening argument." Your honor, my client (me) is completely innocent and wrongly accused. haha

L
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:02 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Dallying402 View Post

WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT: I bumped into Jack at a bookstore yesterday (of all the places in Manhattan!) by pure coincidence.
This is a red flag to me. I have a hard time believing this was a coincidence. Stay safe.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:05 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by seekingcalm View Post
Dallying, your boyfriend's email was eerily familiar to me. On and on with all the big words. He wants what he wants and he is "rambling". Turn down the volume, and listen to your own voice.

You are a smart young woman. You have so much ahead of you; I wish I could tell you how lucky you are to get out now.

When I was fairly new to SR, one of these lovely and wise people suggested I make a list of good and bad, things I loved about him and things that made me unhappy and uncomfortable. Helped me a lot. I love my A very much, but I am taking time away to let him work on his recovery and for me to take care of myself and get some much needed peace and distance. If we are meant to be together we will be. Now is not the time.

You have your whole life ahead of you. I am 52 years old, and I am taking all the time I need.
If in the meantime, someone else crosses my path, then...you just never know.
Yep, the Bloviator. Bloviating Bullcrap.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Oh ya, and this part:

"Your wisdom is noteworthy and I’m telling you now that any time I make a reference to you being 21 yrs old, it is nothing more than a cheap shot and total ********. It is also nothing more than a diversion from any valid point that you are attempting to present and I truly apologize for that."

What really jumped out at me here is he seems to be apologizing in advance. In other words, he intends to keep on doing it, but wants you to know that when he does, he'll be sorry, cause he already said he was.

I agree with FD, possible abuser here.

L
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:14 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat View Post
Wow, his e-mail creeps me out, too. And here's why: I'm starting to see your boyfriend put into place the items on Gavin DeBecker's "Pre-incident Indicators Associated with Spousal Abuse" list, which I posted last week in response to another post, but feel it may be prudent to post it here again:
Following is a list of pre-incident indicators associated with spousal abuse:

1. The woman has intuitive feelings that she is at risk. Yes
2. At the inception of the relationship, the man accelerated the pace, prematurely placing on the agenda such things as commitment, living together, and marriage. Yes
3. He resolves conflict with intimidation, bullying, and violence. Yes to bullying and intimidation
4. He is verbally abusive. Yes
5. He uses threats and intimidation as instruments of control or abuse.Yes
6. He breaks or strikes things in anger. Well... he climbed a tree once.
7. He has battered in prior relationships. No - he has been battered by ex-girlfriend with broken nose
8. He uses alcohol or drugs with adverse affects. Yes
9. He cites alcohol or drugs as an excuse or explanation for hostile or violent conduct. Yes
10. His history includes police encounters for behavioral offenses. Yes
11. There has been more than one incident of violent behavior. Yes
12. He uses money to control the activities, purchases, and behavior of his wife/partner. No - I earn my own money
13. He becomes jealous of anyone or anything that takes her time away from the relationship. Yes
14. He refuses to accept rejection. Yes
15. He expects the relationship to go on forever, perhaps using phrases like "together for life," "always," "no matter what." Yes
16. He projects extreme emotions onto others (hate, love, jealousy, commitment) even when there is no evidence that would lead a reasonable person to perceive them. Yes
17. He minimizes incidents of abuse. Yes
18. He spends a disproportionate amount of time talking about his wife/partner and derives much of his identity from being her husband, lover, etc. Yes at work.
19. He tries to enlist his wife's friends or relatives in a campaign to keep or recover the relationship. Yes, he was very anxious to have my family members like him
20. He has inappropriately surveilled or followed his wife/partner. No
21. He believes others are out to get him. Yes- He thinks he is bullied or his past mafia associates will get him.
22. He resists change and is described as inflexible, unwilling to compromise. With drinking, yes
23. He identifies with or compares himself to violent people in films, news stories, function, or history. Yes
24. He suffers mood swings or is sullen, angry, or depressed. Yes to depression and extreme mood swings
25. He consistently blames others for problems of his own making. Yes
26. He refers to weapons as instruments of power, control, or revenge. No
27. Weapons are a substantial part of his persona; he has a gun or he talks about, jokes about, reads about, or collects weapons. No
28. He uses "male privilege" as a justification for his conduct (treats her like a servent, makes all the big decisions, acts like the "master of the house"). Yes he always decides where to go when we are on dates and gets upset if he doesn't
29. He experienced or witnessed violence as a child. Yes
30. His wife/partner fears he will injure or kill her. She has discussed this with others or has plans to be carried out in the event of her death (e.g., designating someone to care for her children). No

Excerpts from "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker


Holy shi**! FD! Jack practically lives a double life. Can you believe he's a lawyer? This isn't the end of it... I know he is going to contact me more. I suspect he's going to try to bribe me by saying "oh look... i'm drinking even more now. See? You should have stayed with me. I wouldn't be like this."

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!


Quick question to friends, family, and spouses

... do these actions and kind of behavior sound familiar to alcoholics in general? Do these symptoms by DeBecker reflect alcoholics? not just abusers?
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:26 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Dallying402-

You are your own person. You are free in this moment.

Choose what's best for YOU!

peace-
B
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:37 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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I am a firm believer that any man that is 36 and wants to date a 21 year old is mentally deranged and/or just wants you for sex. Run, don't just walk, quickly away from this guy.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:07 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Dallying, this guy's email to you was a big page of smoke and mirrors. Is he intelligent? Sure. But functional 36 year old men aren't paranoid about former mafia associates and aren't violent when drunk.

In fact most healthy, well-adjusted 36 year old men are tucking their kids into bed - or at least dating women within shooting distance of their age-group. That's not to take anything away from you - you're a seriously smart cookie for breaking up with him and I bet you have everything in the world going for you.

To be frank, his email raised the hairs on the back of my neck. You've had some great 'between the lines' feedback and what struck me most was the 'me, me, me, me, I' of it all. He quotes the DSM - your sister is a psychiatric med student, right? Most civilians wouldn't know what the DSM is and that makes me wonder whether he hasn't been diagnosed with something more serious than depression at some point. His email is totally narcissistic.

All of which is moot because your gut has already told you that there's something fishy. There is. His running into you is pretty suspicious. And with these kinds of guys, when you finally do make a break and mean it, you really can't be too careful. I agree with the run don't walk advice - and I'd also rally my friends and family around me and keep them in the loop as much as possible.

Hugs,

SL.
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