boo

Hi Smoke,

In your reply to my post you said that it's up to me to stop feeling sad about all this A stuff and that I can. I want to, but how?

I don't know what it is --about why I like A so much. In other relationships, sure, I liked or loved the person, but when it didn't work out, I was quickly totally fine with the outcome. With A, it has felt really natural to hang out with him and feel comfortable from the first second I met him. I miss his company and conversation. Sure I can get company and conversation from lots of other people, but there is just something about him. I don't know what.

I don't even know which part I am sad about anymore. When I think of my recent visit, it was fine. I didn't like that he drank that wine and now I look back and think-"why didn't I pour a lot of it out when I was in the kitchen by myself?" I didn't want to police his drinking. Honestly I never even considered pouring some out or whatever, because that is not a normal behavior either. I am hurt that his dad interfered, and, had I not called his parent's number and just left a message on his cell, maybe things would have been different. I am not blaming myself. I don't know what I am doing. I just know that I am really sad at the idea that our friendship seems to have been stopped by his dad (or who knows what is really happening).

It feels like this surreal game where one minute we are starting a relationship, then we aren't, then we are friends, then we are "dating", then we are friends, now back to silence. We have had discussions last week that we like each other -and he even said he would promise to be consistent instead of this yin yang thing...well, that was Friday or Satruday. This is a week later.

I guess I am thinking out loud here. In my Al-anon group and here I don't hear anyone saying what their relationship was like with their A's in the beginning. So, I am sort of looking for some comparisons-just like people who have been married and lived with their A for years and years can relate to each other's stories about job loss, dUI's etc etc.

How did you start to not feel sad or whatever you were feeling?

Thanks Smoke. I appreciate what you say/write.

journeygal

Hi Boo,

Well, I'm not Smoke but I think the first thing to do is to break off contact. I don't mean forever. I dated a guy for 7 years and we worked together. When we broke up, I still had to see him every day at work. Now, how the heck was I supposed to get over him if I still had to see him every day, all day? Luckily, after a few months he was sent to Germany for 3 months. Since I no longer saw him every day, I was able to get over him. By the time he got back, I had met my future husband. My ex and I are good friends today, but I couldn't be just his friend right after we broke up, b/c I was still too emotionally involved with him.

My relationship with my husband has been very consistent. He has always been very loving, supportive, and attentive. When he was using, he disappeared, pawned our stuff, and spent all our money, but overall, the good has outweighed the bad, which is why I stayed. (I know, still sounds nuts though, right? ) But if I had gotten all the mixed signals that you have gotten from your A, especially in the very beginning, I would have left loonngggg ago.

The sad feelings and other feelings start to go away when you finally realize in your heart it's time to let go, and you start taking actions to make that happen. But you can't let go when you're still trying to hold on at the same time.

phoenix

Journey is right.We can't begin to heal until we let go.And it is hard.But you are stronger than you may think.You will recover and you will find happiness again.You just need to give yourself a chance.Put yourself first and start doing things that are good for you.The rest will fall into place.

Hugs

phoenix

smoke gets in my eyes

Hi Boo.

I just have to call the man something. I'm gonna call him Dallas.

Just like an alcoholic, you have to decide, deep in your soul that you do not want this "drug" any more. And I don't really mean that Dallas is the drug. It's the drama that is the drug for so many of us, and the sadness is a part of that. I don't know that you are there yet... the bottom. We can all logic you to death here. I'll bet we all tried to logic the substance abusers in our lives out of their drug of choice. That doesn't work. It doesn't work with the anons either. So the bottom line is I can't tell you how to not feel sad. You will stop feeling sad when you make the decision to stop. I hope you will read as much as you can about codependency. I know you have had other alcohol users in your life. The damage that growing up around alcoholics does can be very subtle. We think we're just fine until we start examining the types of relationships we choose. "It's not me it's them." Well sure. It's them. But we selected them.

When we decide... really decide... that we don't want the drama any more... then we often decide we don't want that other actor in the drama either. I think that's where a lot of us get stuck. Attachments to other people are a part of our survival instinct. We're preprogrammed, if you will, to desire longevity in relationships. We don't WANT to decide to let go. And our minds play all kinds of tricks on us to give us an excuse for staying. I was talking with a friend last nite(P) regarding another friend(M) who is in a lousy relationship that she cannot leave because she's "never been in love before." According to P, this is the 5th time M has "never been in love before". She has simply forgotten, as most of us do, what it was like at the beginning of those relationships that went sour. It was all exciting and wonderful and intimate and new then, too.

For some drug users... being deprived of the drug for some time helps them to realize that they can live without it. It worked for me with cigarettes (so far). I was so NOT ready to quit when I quit. But my lungs hurt, so I took a vacation. Of course, I said I was quitting, both to myself and others, but I still had visions of failure. I don't know when the click occured, but the visions of failure disappeared. I now think of myself as a nonsmoker. I believe that is the sort of therapy Journey and Phoenix are recommending. To cut yourself off so you can get a different perspective.

I hate to see you torturing yourself over what you "should" have done. Those people are crazy, with you or without you. They'd be crazy in a closet where no one could see them. When you hang around with crazy people, their crazy jumps all over you. Now if we happen to be a little crazy ourselves and that particular craziness includes codependent tendencies, we might feel that we were responsible for the craziness of the crazies we encounter. We're not. We might feel our crazies are compatible. "He's needy and I like to take care of people... perfect!". It's compatible all right. Like a parasite on a host. It's crazy feeding crazy.

I can't say I've totally stopped feeling sad. It doesn't consume me any more, but it's hard not to be wistful sometimes. Things are not what they could have been "if only". Sigh. But they are not going to be. Ever. What remains is what "is" and what "can be"... and that's a lot of stuff. And I try to turn my attention to that. It keeps me pretty content most of the time.

I know this is hard for you, Boo. What I keep remembering is your early posts where you said that your were 36 and anxious to start a family. Now as a big codie myself, that frankly makes me anxious FOR you, when I see you wasting precious time on this man, hoping he will turn around and become the husband and father of your desires. I usually hate statistics, but I'm gonna quote one here. According to most of the literature I've read, there's a 15% to 20% chance that Dallas will recover from alcoholism SOMETIME in his life. So IF he does, there's no telling whether it can happen on your timetable. From out here it looks like staying with Dallas is giving up your dream, or turning it into a nightmare. But you are the only one who knows what compromises are acceptable to you. There are however, people on this board who grew up in alcoholic homes who might beg you not to raise children with an alcoholic.

I hope I don't sound like I'm "against" Dallas or lack compassion for him. I certainly understand about the struggles of substance abusers. But sacrifices made on the altar of addiction are generally useless. Is he, just like he is, worth the price of your other dreams?

But it's YOU that I have the most compassion for. It's what my mother calls "having to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea." Hard choice.

Hugs... and we're here for you whatever you decide.
Smoke

Summer

Wow, this is a good post for me. I, too, am 36 and feel like alot of my dreams of having a family have gone down the toilet because I still live with my A. I also think of leaving him just about everyday and those "tricks" play on my mind and I still keep on doing the same things. Change is sooo hard and I don't know why. Funny thing is I can accept changes at work but in my personal life it's difficult for me to do something. I hope someday the I will find the courage to change the things I can.
Summer

TinyOne

Boo-

I had something very similar happen to me lately but without the history/longevity that you two share.

Kev is my ex from before Bob. When I first started at my job he was the one that trained me. We clicked. There was just something 'there'. He pursued me for two months, I finally accepted and then we didn't get together for another month. He kept sending mixed signals. By the time we got together I was so 'up' that I thought he hung the moon.

I broke it off with him because he turned out to be secretive and defensive and I had no idea where he was on the weekends. A coworker called me one day and told me he thought Kev was on crack. (I knew he used to be a crackhead when we met.) So I broke it off.

That was two and a half years ago.

A couple of months ago he wrote me a letter apologizing for how things turned out, invited me out to lunch, etc. I emailed him and told him I was engaged. Soooooo......after I broke it off with Bob I emailed Kev and suggested being email buddies. He kept asking me out, reminding me of the good times. I eventually agreed to go out with him after Bob was not physically in the house. Then he starts saying stuff like 'maybe this weekend...' or 'maybe next week we can...' Nothing definite. At the same time he was sending other emails saying he couldn't wait to see me, missed me. But he never called. And the emails continued. And my brain was on that damn gerbil wheel again!

Finally, I pinned him down (via email). I told him that he was taking up more negative space in my head than he would be if we were sleeping together. And I couldn't deal with it any more. He wrote back that because of his recovery he is afraid of touching 'that fruit' because he knows it's so good and he doesn't want to fall too fast......Whatever.

I eventually sent him an email, told him I thought he should of thought of all that before he pursued me, and not to write and to just call when he gets his **** together.

-------------------------------------

I did this for several reasons:

--I was thinking about him ALL the time, wondering what was going on between us. It wasn't healthy and I knew that if/when we got together I would once again be so happy that it finally happened that I would be half in love with him. Again.

--Boundaries. If this turned into anything I wasn't going to start it out by being a doormat. Me being there at his beck and call.

--It felt like rejection. I had a lot of that from Bob in the last few years and I didn't need it now. (Sexual-wise). He was basically saying 'I like you too much to sleep with you.'

--If I give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's genuinely confused it still doesn't excuse the fact that until I said YES to seeing him there was no mixed signals, no talk of us seeing each interfering in his recovery. I haven't seen him in 2 1/2 years, I don't know how long he's been in recovery.

----------------------------------------------

It might have worked out. Maybe the timing was finally right. I miss him. Part of me always has. He and I were 'explosive' in a way that Bob and I never were.

It's his loss.

jessieandme2003

Thanks to those who took the time to write on this thread. Smoke, you are da bomb, baby!

Boo, you asked for someone to share how it was when they first met their A. I'd like to do that.

I fell for my A from day one. He was so charming. He also seemed so sweet, vulnerable, like he just needed someone to really get to know him and love him. That's the part that gets a lot of us codies, I guess. I just felt like I could be the one to show him love and a real relationship, and that would make me feel special. We had a strong physical attraction, and that made me feel good about myself as a woman. He was handsome, fun, exciting and always in a good mood. Life was just so much better with him in it. He called me all the time. He'd sneak away at lunch from work and call me when his boss wasn't looking. He'd call late at night. He made me feel he could think about nothing but me.

I look back now and I know it could have went on like that forever. If I would have just accepted him as he was once we began to live together...

If I accepted that he would be drunk regularly. And "fall asleep' on the couch by 7, whether we had plans or not.
If I accepted that he would decide if he was coming home based, even for dinner, on who was at the bar and if he was winning at pool. Whether we had plans or not.
If I accepted that he would never have money, never buy me anything for holidays, and would always be looking for money from me.
If I accepted that I would be ashamed of him all the time, and could never take him to meet friends at work or parents of my daughters friends.
If I accepted that we would only do what he wanted, watch what he wanted, and eat when he wanted.
If I accepted that that meant never doing anything or going anywhere where you don't drink.
If I accepted that he would always lie and do whatever he pleased rather than do something just because I wanted him to.

I am sure we could all add to this list for days!

But what happens is, at some point, you realize you can't accept it anymore. You've given and given and given and they don't seem to be appreciating it like you expected them to. You yell, you cry, you beg, you bribe. You do all you can to try to get a little from the person you give so much to. (You try to control them, change them. Friends ask you why you 'let him get away with that.') You feel very justified in your demands of them. And as their disease progresses, they care less about making you happy, it is all about them. They make you feel like a nag, like all you do is complain, like there is something wrong with you. Sadly, for us codies the notion that we deserve better, that there's nothing wrong with us because its them, and that we can't 'fix' this person is hard in grasping. We think that we simply are not doing something right, or they'd see they were wrong and wnat to treat us right. We fear we'd not do any better with anyone else, as they've convinced us the problems are with us.

The hell my life became with my AH was all psychological. Somewhere in the marriage I lost me. There was no me anymore. I used to be so strong and independent. I have a great career, and I had completed my graduate education at night while working. Now, I became a person who made no decisions just for me. I would never have gone to school at night with him, because it would have meant he'd be in the bars those nights. I was always home because that was the only way I could try to get him to stay home. I turned my life around to match who we wanted me to be. Just so we could stay happy and have the romance we had IF HE WAS HAPPY.

This is long, I am sorry. I meant to also talk about having a family with an A too. I can tell you about how it is incredibly hard to give your children the attention and priority they deserve when you have an A in your life, because the A demands all the attention, and they demand to be the priority. You end up being pulled back and forth between them, killing yourself to keep them both happy and keep the peace.

Anyway, for me, Al Anon saved me. I learned so much, realized I needed to be me again, and worked hard using everything I found within Al Anon that made sense to me. The serenity prayer was big for me. And another little phrase someone had said to me early on... "Picture your life the way you want it, and take steps towards it every day." Like others have said, Al Anon helped me in relationships other than with my AH, and I am still focused on that to this day. At work, with friends and relatives, etc. For me it helped me realize I was putting WAY TOO MUCH FOCUS on my A. Not nearly enough on me, or my daughter. That sounds simple now but really was at the root of my unhappiness.

Boo, I think you are doing that.

I used to think about him all the time. Obsessive thought, it is called. I mean all the time. I'd go over and over in my mind the last conversation, or imaginary conversations, trying to figure out what might work, what might get through to him. Lots of thought, lots of energy, lots of wasted time. It shouldn't be that hard.

Getting away from him, completely, until that obsessive thought actually stopped, is what I needed. I never thought I could get past it, to be honest, but I did. Took a couple months of not seeing or talking to him.

Then, and only then, could I become sane in my thinking. Really explore what I wanted. Really get to know myself and the life I wanted. Then and only then was I able to invite someone else to share my life without letting them take it over.

Good grief, I had better shut up now. I doubt anyone gets through all this. I guess I just really needed to share. Again, this is only my experience, and not necessarily the experience of others.

Daffodil

Boo, this is short and to the point;

How much of you are you willing to give up to have "Dallas" in

your life?????

How much of your todays, are you WASTING on just thinking of him, about him, WHAT CAN YOU DO,WHAT SHOULD YOU DO,,,Ect, Ect.So far Dear All your post are about him...Where are you in all this...

I hope you continue to follow the suggestions from all these people who are showing you you are cared about...

Love and prayers,

Nikntyzmom

Wow, Jessie, it seems you and I may have been with the same person.

My A was like that in the beginning too. Made me feel so special, did everything for me, told me how beautiful I was, brought me flowers for no reason at work, bought me little presents, everything, the whole bit.

I too thought everything I had heard about him in the past was because people didn't realize how to love him, how special he was, and if someone would just be good to him, that was all it would take.

I look back, and think how could I have been so blinded?

Boo, I think what everyone is trying to say is get out while you can. Where you are in this relationship is where I was after a year with him. All we are trying to tell you, is we know now what we should have known then, and it's not good.

Only you can make this decision for you, Boo. We could all talk until we are blue in the face, and it wouldn't matter, unless you want to end it.

It's hard, believe me I know. When I first got with my A, everyone was telling me what everyone is telling you, and I honestly thought they were all crazy, and everyone was just jealous because I had this wonderful man and this great relationship. I told myself it didn't matter, because I loved him and he loved me, and we had so much fun together. And guess what? It didn't matter, for a while.

But now, I look back and think why didn't I listen? I know why though, it's hard to accept things like this from others. I honestly believe the only way to learn something like this is go through it yourself. You only understand when you make the mistake.

We just want to save you some of the hurt and hell we go through, Boo.