What was your last meeting topic?

Old 09-25-2010, 06:10 PM
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What was your last meeting topic?

Mine was detachment.

From Courage to Change.

"What does another person's mood, tone of voice, state of inebriation have to do with my course of action? Nothing, unless I decide otherwise.

For example, I have learned that arguing with someone who is intoxicated is like beating my head against a brick wall. Yet, until recently, I would always dive right into the arguments, because that was what the other person seemed to want. In Al-Anon I discovered that I don't have to react just because I have been provoked, and that I don't have to take harsh words to heart. I can remember that they are coming from someone who may be in pain, and try to show a little compassion. I certainly don't have to allow them to provoke me into doing anything I don't want to do.

Today's Reminder
Detachment with love means that I stop depending upon what others do, say, or feel to determine my own well-being or to make my decisions."

I certainly don't have to allow them to provoke me into doing anything I don't want to do

Oh man. The amount of times I have gone down this road. Still do. It's a very hard habit to break. Because I do want to do it, you know? When I am provoked, I react. I try and remember the word responsibility......that I have the ability to respond, Try and put a pause in there somewhere, hopefully before my eruption.

Detaching is hard. At first, I had to physically remove myself from the room. Sometimes, I had to get in my car and just drive. With practive, I am able to make non-commital noises and go and do something else but in the beginning....man, I made it known that I was **** well detaching and don't you know about it.

It helps, though. Removing yourself (physically or mentally) from the source of the madness when there is drink involved makes for a more peaceful life.

How do you detach?
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:17 PM
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I personally could not detach as long as my alcoholic boyfriend was living under my roof. So I drove him to a hotel near his job so he could walk to work the next day and I drove home a free woman.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:28 PM
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In truth, FD, my real success in detachment came when I called it a day and asked him to leave. I was lucky that he did, although there was some persistance from him afterward. In fact, almost 6 years on, he has tried my detachment again this week after a multi-year hiatus. I am guessing his wife has hit the 2 year mark.

I am being swan-like. Cool n the surface, paddling like mad underneath with undiscovered residual rage.

Deatchment is a funny old thing. It feels so cruel. So against anything we learned to be as good little girls.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:47 PM
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My sister was dubbed the good girl. She always did what she was told and behaved like she was expected to behave and said what she thought others wanted to hear. I always marched to my own beat. Said what was on my mind. Did what I wanted to do no matter what others thought. I still do. I was dubbed stubborn and head-strong.

When referring to my sister in my presence my mother always says "your sister is so sweet." To which I always ask, if she's sweet, then what am I? My mother always responds, "well, not sweet."

My sister has never lived the life she wanted to live. She cries a lot. Plays the victim a lot. My mom still says that she's the good daughter.

Conversely, though, she says that out of all her seven children, I have always been the happiest, the strongest, and most independent.

I don't know what my point is exactly, I just thought I'd share.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:53 PM
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Well, that is a beautiful example of expectations, FD. Not only do we have expectations of those with whom we have relationships, but they have expectations of us. And boy, do they run deep.

I feel weighed down at present by expectations of me as a woman, a daughter, a member of the (non-US) middle-class, a graduate amonst others. S'not easy. And another great topic to explore.

I have to learn to detach from those expectations. And then learn how not to trip up over all this recovery stuff that is laying around the place....
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:03 PM
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Based on some of my responses lately, you may have observed that I'm also having trouble with labels these days. I hate the word "alkie." I think it's disrespectful. I also no longer appreciate the label "codie" or "codependant." I am a woman who has displayed some codependent behaviors but I am not a codependent. I am human.

I'm also struggling with the term "recovery." To me being in recovery means that something is or was inherently wrong with me and it needed or needs to be fixed. I think that I'm human and prone to the same human frailties as others, but I am not necessarily broken.

Again, I'm not sure what the point of my post is. These are just some random thoughts I've been kicking around lately.

Thank you for these threads and an opportunity to share.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:06 PM
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I get all of that, FD.

I must sleep soon, but would be really interested to explore those themes. Do you want to do it on this thread or start new ones? There's about 5 on here already!
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:11 PM
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I say let's just keep on truckin' here, if it's OK with you. Have a good sleep.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:18 PM
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With regards to detachment...geez that was hard work! If I didn't physically leave the room I would have to turn my head so I couldn't see him, focus all my attention on something else to drown his words out and physically hold my mouth shut to remind myself not to fall for the provoking and "get into it".

Once I found I could actually control myself it kinda gave me some power and that made me feel good. He was so miserable that he wanted me to feel that way too, wanted me to fight back so he could turn it all around to be what was wrong with me...I learnt that from detaching and watching, saying nothing...just watching. It was amazing to me that it could be something other than what I thought it was and that I didn't have to place all the ammunition into his hands by reacting how he wanted me to.

I detached so much that in the end I just didn't give a crap and that kinda set me free.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:27 AM
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I think the labels 'codependent' and 'Alcoholic' really helped me at first. My marriage was breaking down rapidly, XAH was blaming me for everything and I had no self esteem or self belief. Reading up on both these labels helped me realise that while I do have some responsibility for what was happening, it wasn't all my fault! Learning I was codependent meant I had something concrete to work on - me! I had a set of characteristics/behaviours to watch out for and try to change. I also found I wasn't alone in this, this wasn't just happening to me - it was a recognised 'condition'. It gave me hope and structure in my recovery - and it was 'recovery' for me. I recovered myself.

I'm further down the road now. I still have bits of old codependent behaviours sneak up on me when I least expect it (particularly at work - but that's a whole other thread...or six) but I don't think I am an active codependent any more. I'm still not finished trying to work out who I am, what do I want from life and what will make it worthwhile for me. Recovery was the ER visit after trauma and my continued recovery (refining? development?) is the post operative recuperation and further elective surgery. It isn't really recovery any more though but I'm not sure what to call it. Its more life affirming than life saving now.

I didn't and don't find the labels restrictive. They serve a purpose that was good for me. Not having them would have made my journey that much more difficult.

I feel like I'm having a hard time this morning trying to articulate what I mean so I'll leave it there...
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bookwyrm View Post
I think the labels 'codependent' and 'Alcoholic' really helped me at first. My marriage was breaking down rapidly, XAH was blaming me for everything and I had no self esteem or self belief. Reading up on both these labels helped me realise that while I do have some responsibility for what was happening, it wasn't all my fault! Learning I was codependent meant I had something concrete to work on - me! I had a set of characteristics/behaviours to watch out for and try to change. I also found I wasn't alone in this, this wasn't just happening to me - it was a recognised 'condition'. It gave me hope and structure in my recovery - and it was 'recovery' for me. I recovered myself.

I'm further down the road now. I still have bits of old codependent behaviours sneak up on me when I least expect it (particularly at work - but that's a whole other thread...or six) but I don't think I am an active codependent any more. I'm still not finished trying to work out who I am, what do I want from life and what will make it worthwhile for me. Recovery was the ER visit after trauma and my continued recovery (refining? development?) is the post operative recuperation and further elective surgery. It isn't really recovery any more though but I'm not sure what to call it. Its more life affirming than life saving now.

I didn't and don't find the labels restrictive. They serve a purpose that was good for me. Not having them would have made my journey that much more difficult.

I feel like I'm having a hard time this morning trying to articulate what I mean so I'll leave it there...
your making perfect sense to me bookwrmxxx
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:19 AM
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I haven't perfected detachment. For me it takes practice. But I can get sucked right back in in about 2.5 seconds. I couldn't detach under the same roof with active addict either..the physical space definately helped. My last Alalnon meeting topic was on on BLAME..another good one!
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:25 AM
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TRUST......"Trust God, love people." "Love people ,trust God." ?
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:54 AM
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mine was FEELINGs...

how men and women are sortof DIFFERENT in these areas....men dont talk, but does not mean "they dont feel"...and so on...
older group in this meeting about 30 years+ marriages and how they did it with the alcoholic in their lives...was interesting to say the least...
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:32 AM
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Practically speaking, detachment under the same roof hasn't worked for me. When he was out on a bender, for instance, wandering about in the countryside in the middle of the night in the winter, there was no way I could have slept peacefully until he was home safe.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by akrasia View Post
Practically speaking, detachment under the same roof hasn't worked for me. When he was out on a bender, for instance, wandering about in the countryside in the middle of the night in the winter, there was no way I could have slept peacefully until he was home safe.
I think the key words for me here is "in the winter." I hate the winter, because if he gets drunk and passes out, he could be in a life-threatening situation. I sleep like a baby when AH is out and about because I've gotten better with that kind of detachment. In fact, detachment is easy when you're left at home and you can watch TV or go about your business and not think about them.

But I admit, one time a couple of years ago we came home from an event (Robbie Burns night, in January), and he was so drunk he wouldn't get out of the car (obviously I had driven us both home). He wound up rolling out of the car and down the driveway to the street! He was laying in the street, passed out, so I called 911 because I was certainly not strong enough to push him up on the sidewalk.

Once he was safe I could detach, but I'm sorry, to me, detachment doesn't mean risking his getting run over in front of your house.

Otherwise, if it's above freezing and he's outside, I sleep like a baby.
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bookwyrm View Post
I think the labels 'codependent' and 'Alcoholic' really helped me at first. My marriage was breaking down rapidly, XAH was blaming me for everything and I had no self esteem or self belief. Reading up on both these labels helped me realise that while I do have some responsibility for what was happening, it wasn't all my fault! Learning I was codependent meant I had something concrete to work on - me! I had a set of characteristics/behaviours to watch out for and try to change. I also found I wasn't alone in this, this wasn't just happening to me - it was a recognised 'condition'. It gave me hope and structure in my recovery - and it was 'recovery' for me. I recovered myself.

I'm further down the road now. I still have bits of old codependent behaviours sneak up on me when I least expect it (particularly at work - but that's a whole other thread...or six) but I don't think I am an active codependent any more. I'm still not finished trying to work out who I am, what do I want from life and what will make it worthwhile for me. Recovery was the ER visit after trauma and my continued recovery (refining? development?) is the post operative recuperation and further elective surgery. It isn't really recovery any more though but I'm not sure what to call it. Its more life affirming than life saving now.

I didn't and don't find the labels restrictive. They serve a purpose that was good for me. Not having them would have made my journey that much more difficult.

I feel like I'm having a hard time this morning trying to articulate what I mean so I'll leave it there...
I think you articulated it perfectly. And I feel exactly the same way. Call me naive, but I had no idea that what was happening to me was something that happened all the time and that there was a name for it! Wow, what a revelation!

And, yes to the life affirming bit, too. I prefer to call what I am doing now evolving, as opposed to recovering. I also like to think of it that way because evolution is ongoing. The term recovery seems to imply that you can get to a point of "recovered."

L
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
And, yes to the life affirming bit, too. I prefer to call what I am doing now evolving, as opposed to recovering. I also like to think of it that way because evolution is ongoing. The term recovery seems to imply that you can get to a point of "recovered."

L
Thanks! I was really struggling to find something other than recovery for what I'm trying to do now. Evolution fits nicely.

Took me ages to type/retype that post!
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bookwyrm View Post
I think the labels 'codependent' and 'Alcoholic' really helped me at first. My marriage was breaking down rapidly, XAH was blaming me for everything and I had no self esteem or self belief. Reading up on both these labels helped me realise that while I do have some responsibility for what was happening, it wasn't all my fault! Learning I was codependent meant I had something concrete to work on - me! I had a set of characteristics/behaviours to watch out for and try to change. I also found I wasn't alone in this, this wasn't just happening to me - it was a recognised 'condition'. It gave me hope and structure in my recovery - and it was 'recovery' for me. I recovered myself.

I'm further down the road now. I still have bits of old codependent behaviours sneak up on me when I least expect it (particularly at work - but that's a whole other thread...or six) but I don't think I am an active codependent any more. I'm still not finished trying to work out who I am, what do I want from life and what will make it worthwhile for me. Recovery was the ER visit after trauma and my continued recovery (refining? development?) is the post operative recuperation and further elective surgery. It isn't really recovery any more though but I'm not sure what to call it. Its more life affirming than life saving now.

I didn't and don't find the labels restrictive. They serve a purpose that was good for me. Not having them would have made my journey that much more difficult.

I feel like I'm having a hard time this morning trying to articulate what I mean so I'll leave it there...
You are making complete sense to me too - and I agree with you so far - (though only a short time into my "recovery" but feeling like I am making beautiful progress).

With regard to detachment. I dont' think I could have managed it at the stage my marriage had reached without physical separation. I have managed it now though. Its good.
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