I want to expose him for the slime he is

Old 09-10-2010, 08:19 AM
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How about writing down what you'd like to say to the pastor, stashing it away for a month or two and then taking it out again at that time to see if you still feel it is necessary to communicate the information? If you think that this is something that could in the long term "heal" you, then I'd say go for it.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
Am I understanding this correctly? The pastor did the matchmaking? And when you had clear hesitation to marrying him, she wasn't understanding?
I think you went to someone you trusted and (sorry but gee what a surprise to see this in "the church") and instead of being protected and helped, you were totally screwed over. She's got her own issues. Problem is, she's in a position of power.
That is exactly what happened. I left my apartment because stbxah would not leave me alone and was at my sister's house. Both the pastor and stbxah were calling me there. She asked me to come in and talk to her. I did but I did not tell her about the addictions because being the co-dependent I was I did not want stbxah to lose his job. If I would have been healthier I would have sat there and told her the truth. I was also in the middle of a major depressive episode at the time (that started when I decided not to marry stbxah).

My sister keeps sending me emails that say one thing--don't let him steal your joy. I think I will make that my mantra for a while and see how I feel in a few days. Mostly what I was doing when I posted this originally was expressing my feelings--because once again, I find myself shaking my head in disbelief that something like this can happen. The things I want to do are because I am angry but I don't think it would produce any results. It is just like the mediator said--he is a loser and pathetic and there is nothing anyone can do to change that but him--and he's obviously not interested in changing it.

Also, what the pastor did she did 13 years ago. I am going to have to forgive her. But, just to clear the air--I would like to talk to her. She is a pastor so it would be a confidential conversation. I still remember a conversation I had with her about my mom. She told me I could forgive her but I did not have to think what she was doing to me was OK. I think the same thing applies to what happened with her.

I won't let him steal my joy! I won't let him steal my joy! I won't let him steal my joy!
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:15 PM
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Just for you, with love.



God Bless
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:33 PM
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Your feelings of outrage are so normal the Greeks wrote a play about it called Medea.
I could identifiy with every one of those murderous feelings that character had.
I got lucky...I got to read her parts aloud to the class!

and FWIW I am still equally disgusted by that X....I just don't ever think about it much and I practice Ben Franklin's "Living Well Is The Best Revenge".
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:07 PM
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You've had some great advice here, W2K. What a nightmare you've gone through.

Noday has a great suggestion. Write it down, stash it away, and after you've had some time, you can choose how you'd like to act as opposed to react while your emotions are running high.

Your pastor made a huge mistake by encouraging you to follow through with a marriage you were doubting. It probably wasn't with harmful intent. It was probably with a lot of pride, however, as a pastor who had brought two church members together, wanting to take credit for the union, believing God had led you to eachother, and so on. The problem is, pastors are human, too, with human weaknesses.

This pastor, with any true humility, will be able to accept responsibility for that mistake. A truly humble pastor would not want to make the same mistake again. I do see it as your responsibility to be honest with the pastor about your experience and the truth of the character of AH, but probably later, after you've had some time to let your emotions find some balance. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.

I had to wait a lot of years to see justice after the actions of my XAH and his mistress (now wife), but I couldn't have imagined the kind of justice that HP delivered. Not in my wildest dreams.

But...she ended up in a DUI trial, embarrassing herself to the point of being the butt of jokes on radio stations...not just in our community, but all over the USA. Yep. At that point, EVERYONE knew the truth about the moral character of both her and XAH. I didn't have to do a thing out of revenge. It took care of itself. It was actually so nasty, I felt a certain degree of pity for them...only a small degree, mind you.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:39 PM
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For what it's worth, my view on what you've told us agrees with others above, i.e., this paster was blinded by her investment in the match and perhaps unknowingly abused her power. In effect, she's failed her duty of care (though I don't know if that applies in religious organizations - does it, legally?).

She *ought* to be at least interested in how her actions have affected a member of her congregation. Realistically, passionate and persuasive people (I'm imagining her that way, is that off?), often have a gift for ignoring what they perceive as criticism. You obviously feel like you need 'back-up' to make your point.

I'm out of my depth with church business - but aren't pastors bound by some enforceable code of ethics, like counsellors, for example? (I don't mean the Bible... though I'd imagine there's reasonable guidance in there.) Is there a formal process you can use? Maybe talk to her in the presence of some kind of ombudsman?

In terms of the congregation... It's hard to move group-think, once a mood has taken hold. They might think you protest too much. They might twist what you say, to rationalize their trust in and affinity for your ex. Annoyingly, it's impossible to control what people do with what you put out.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:18 PM
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I had a lot of similar experience with church, counselors and church people. It's difficult to deal with, moreso because it often reaches into other families, relationships and dynamics.

In my case, only a few close friends and recovery friends knew my truth - the abuse and deceit and control freak that was also the church elder. I chose to walk thru my separation and divorce from the "pillar of the church" with dignity and grace. I refused to take the bait when he threw things out at me, I didn't respond when he spewed about his rights and my wrongs. No defense, no response at all was the best play for me.

Divorcing him -- and then living well -- has been the best revenge for me.

It's now 10 yrs later, and I was in our former town recently for a family wedding. A couple whom I had lost touch with found me and reacquainted. They confirmed that they'd known a lot more about the hell that was my life but they had troubles admitting it and coming to grips with all the repercussions of what that meant. It was good and healing for all of us to have a conversation.

It's also been my practice to write things out and then either sit on it for a few weeks or send to a recovery friend first. That way I have a level headed person to help me figure out my motives, my expected result, and whether or not anything good will actually come from me sending that nastygram. (for me the answer is almost always NO)

Hugs to you - I really do understand. I can promise you this - there truly is light and life on the other side of your former life. It just takes time.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:37 PM
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I just have to say two simple things:

1) Karma is a bitch.

2) The best advice my dear mother ever gave me was this: Always take the high road.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:51 AM
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First of all I'd like to cosign the suggestion for forgiveness, which IMO is far too seldom practiced. It's not easy, but worth working at.

I've heard it said that the worst thing that ever happened to the "institution" of marriage was the notion of marrying for love, and arranged marriages still seem to be the most successful. Way back when, there was this process called "courting" in which couples got to know each other, supervised and attended by older, wiser heads, and the time lapse between initial romantic desires and marriage was usually around two years. Time for each to get to know the other. Some wisdom there.

I'm also reminded of Simon and Garfunkle's line: we see just what we want to see and disregard the rest.....which presciently expresses modern quantum theory that says things only manifest when we focus on them. Love (as in romance and infatuation) tends to obscure reality.

An example that comes to mind is the nearly total lack of incidents of child abuse during the 1950's. But it wasn't that it wasn't going on....it was that we weren't looking for it (or at it). Needless to say, that has changed, but I suspect that the frequency of child abuse has probably remained pretty stable....just our perceptions have changed.

The X may be a sociopath: charming, smart, manipulative and full of rage....and without a conscience. One thing a relationship with a sociopath virtually guarantees is pain and suffering.

I'm really glad you've determined to extricate yourself, no matter how much resistance you encounter. I hope you can remind yourself that love always is willing to let go....it's hatred that needs to hold on. I'm reading in your posts that you are learning to love yourself....that has been a major benefit to me in my recovery.

You go girl!

blessings
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:17 AM
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I've been thinking about this thread and my suggestions. I could also give you unlimited examples of me being hands off and letting go, especially of my anger.

You'll sort out the resentment part of it, that's always where I start. Owning my sh1t. The rest will be clear after that.

That's the best part, though. The freedom of personal resentment. It's the best gift the program has given me!
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:28 AM
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I agree that karma can be a bitch, but it also can be a blessing for those who choose to take the high road. It seems to have worked for me. Today my life is filled with blessings. I've been working hard to try and work through my anger and let it dissipate before I take action. My goal is to make conscious efforts to make choices that bring peace, happiness, and serenity into my life and avoid choices and actions that invite negativity. I'm becoming increasingly aware that I often made choices that invited chaos and negativity into my life.

I had a coworker years ago named Al. He was a newlywed and constantly made negative comments about his new wife. He was also very active in his church. We became good friends since we shared the same office. Eventually, I asked him why he married his wife, Angie, in the first place since he clearly was not interested in having her as his partner.

He told me he had asked her to marry him and then immediately had regrets. Being that they were both members of the same church, his pastor intervened, much like yours did and pressured him to go ahead with the marriage. I don't know if he asked for guidance or it was given without an invitation. But the bottom line was that Al felt pressured, even manipulated, to marry Angie. But ultimately the choice to marry Angie was Al's. The marriage lasted about a year.

I think there may be a piece that's missing in the responses here. And that piece is figuring out why outside pressures and manipulations ultimately led you and my friend, Al, to make choices that didn't feel right. It seems that the little voices in your heads were not just whispering "beware," they were shouting "run."

Rather than attempt to make your pastor see the error of her ways, which usually hasn't been fruitful for me, perhaps a change of church may be the way to go. You have an opportunity to make two fresh starts here: a life free from the effects of another person's drinking and a life free from a manipulating pastor.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:51 AM
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You know what this story reminds me of? BTK was a 'pillar of the church,' stand-up citizen and all that crap. They pretend to be one thing in front of the neighbors, put on a big show, go out of their way to appear to be something other than what they truly are. That's why I believe you gotta trust your instincts.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:12 AM
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doormat-there were many reasons why. I was a raging codependent and I wanted to believe stbxah was telling the truth. I was not healthy or when I sat down on the couch with that pastor I would not have been crying my eyes out--I would have looked her squarely in the eye and said he is an alcoholic and drug addict. Did she know that? Hard to say. He has fooled most of the congregations at the churches where he has worked. We left the church were we were married within a few years because he had problems with the congregation. The next church he had problems with the pastor (actually called him a spoiled little rich boy and to F off). Next job-same-did not like the pastor. As crazy as she was--she was happy to see him go because he has already shown his true colors by getting high with people from the band (and one of his first jobs was to fire them and he was ratted out) and then when he made sexually explicit comments about a 16 year old girl during a choir practice--that was reported by someone else to the pastor. Both went in his pesonnel file.

I stopped attending any church he was working at after that. The place he works now--no one has ever met me--except the pastor. He was the pastor he told to F off. He forgave him and asked him to play piano for one of the services.

Today is a hard day. I am very angry but I am venting when no one is around. I don't think it is healthy to hold it in. I needed a long and hard cry. This has been a rough week and the legal system has been twisted to benefit him. I am sure my lawyer is someone upset with me because I have refused to sign the final Marital Settlement agreement because of one paragraph. I told her not one line in it was true and I would not sign it if she left it in because I would be lying and that my marriage started with a lie. I was not going to end it with one.

So, I am trying to plan some fun things for this weekend. stbxah has the kids. There is an art show on Main St. and a blues fest tonight. So I am going to go-I need to get away from the drudgery of job being the household cleanup crew.

I think I will start journaling. It will be a healthy way to deal with the anger.

Cats--I have written letters like you describe and I sent them off to a couple friends for what we call "snot checks". Baiscally is the fact that I feel like a raging B right now coming through or have I diplomatically stated my feelings and how things might be resolved. You are right-most come back--while this probably felt good to write-don't send it.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:26 AM
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He has fooled most of the congregations at the churches where he has worked. We left the church were we were married within a few years because he had problems with the congregation. The next church he had problems with the pastor (actually called him a spoiled little rich boy and to F off). Next job-same-did not like the pastor. As crazy as she was--she was happy to see him go because he has already shown his true colors by getting high with people from the band (and one of his first jobs was to fire them and he was ratted out) and then when he made sexually explicit comments about a 16 year old girl during a choir practice--that was reported by someone else to the pastor. Both went in his pesonnel file.
He has left quite a trail. Honestly, when I read your original post, I figured there were already plenty of people who know the "real" him. Based on what you just described, chances are good your pastor does, too.

You are going through a lot right now, but you sound strong. I hope you're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. You will get through this! Hugs to you.

P.S. Way to stand firm regarding the one bad paragraph in the Marital Settlement. Do what you need to do to keep your integrity in tact.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:36 AM
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I'm having a hard time signing anything that says this

Part of the marital settlement agreement that I find I cannot accept and signing it would be a misrepresentation. People want me to just sign it to get the divorce over with. But I told my lawyer unless she took this out, or reworded it I could not, in good faith, sign it. Like I said, I entered into this marriage lying and I don't want to exit doing the same. I am a different person now and I don't want to have BS spooned out in a nice lovely format and sign it because it has been prettied up.

"Both parties state they have freely entered into this Agreement. Each party executed this agreement free of any duress, coercion, collusion, or undue influence. In some instances the Agreement represents a compromise of disputed issues. However, both parties agree that all the terms and conditions are fair and reasonable under the circumstances."

I am not freely entering into the agreement--I have been told that stbxah is a total slacker and no one can make him take care of his kids. So I can either pay $1000s more in legal fees or just accept the slap in the face. That does not seem freely entering into an agreement.

Executed free of duress-again, basically repeating above--I see that as duress.

Compromise?-what compromise?--stbxah got to keep what was his and then take 43% of what was mine AND get his child support dropped and not help pay for anything basically.

Fair? ah, nope
Reasonable? Nope again
Circumstances--I did not create them, he did yet at this point the "circumstances" are nowhere discussed and the judge has no idea of the "circumstances"

I am trying to rewrite this so I can sign the agreement and been done with ths nightmare. Anyone out there have viable substiturions (in other words--toss the same BS out but with honesty?)
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Old 09-11-2010, 01:21 PM
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Enjoy the art show, Wife2Kids. Hope you have a great time.
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