cagreg9

Haven't posted here in a while. My alcoholic husband put myself and 3 children through 3 to 4 years of pure hell. My kids are 19, 17 and 12. Long story short he has been sober at least physically since May. He has had virtually no contact with his kids. He says I poisoned them against him, and that is why they don't return phone calls and texts he sends them. He has been gone now for 16 months. The fact is he denies ever having done anything, even now that he is sober. Never drove them drunk, never verbally abused them, drunk in public etc. etc. My son even called the police on him when he had my older daughter in a choke hold. When does the part in AA where you are suppose to make amends happen? Is he a dry drunk? I certainly don't encourage my kids to contact him but I don't discourage them. I just don't believe its healthy for them to have a relationship with a man who cowardly refuses to admit how much he hurt them. No apology, nothing! They need to have everything that has happened to them acknowledged, I know I do. What would you do?

queenteree

Sounds like he's still drinking to me. That is total alcoholic mentality,and I'm going thru it right now ... since my AH relapsed after 9 mos. sober. I knew a month ago that he was on the verge of drinking or starting to drink by that attitude shift. Before then, he really knew what he had done wrong to the family and was making amends. Now he acts like he's doing us all a favor ... perfect example: my son gave him rides to work every morning, out of son's way to work, but drove him and in exchange AH paid him $50 a week. There were times when son couldn't take him, AH was like "well, I'm not complaining, he's doing me the favor ..." and understood. Now since AH is drinking again, the other day, he says to me "don't I give son $50 a week" as if he's giving it to him to help him out or support him!!!! Son makes 3x as much as AH and doesn't need his financial help!!!! See what I mean, see the shift in thinking. May I ask though, if he's soon to be X, why are you bothering at all to speak w/him. I try not to have any kind of dialogue w/mine when he sneaks in my shed at night to sleep ... it's so not worth it.

cagreg9

No he is sober, at least physically. Court ordered alcohol testing every two weeks, he mails me the results. I only talk to him because he left us in financial ruin and the money he pays me weekly is pitiful because he was fired from his job. Believe me I barely speak to him at all.

queenteree

Court ordered does not mean sober, TRUST ME!!!! When you get a chance, read some of my other posts ... my husband knows just when to stop drinking for a day or two to pass a urine test and how many hours he has to stop before passing a breathalyzer ... he's done it for years now. And my AH is court ordered too, 3 dwi's in a week, and he's still drinking and will get away with it, please, trust me! They know when they will be tested. Alcoholics are very resourceful in that respect ... and talk about financial ruin, I feel for ya girl!!! I was in such bad financial ruin last year .. pulled myself out of it, got ahead and then took him back in after he got out of jail! Don't ever give them the benefit of the doubt ...

ninja7

I keep my sobriety over 18 months. Reflecting my 18 months sobriety, I think I used to be dry drunk in early days. Recovery and spiritual awakening come up gradually. Even he keeps sobriety several months, his mind may be still drunk. Alcoholics do not solves their problems by themselves. Just drink and forget everything, when something happen. Now I am separating with my family (wife and two chidren, Univ son and Hight school daughter) for 9 months. My mind changes gradually a day at a time. Lately I am thinking my apologies and love to my family. You do not much expecting for your H with only such short sobriety. It is dry drunk before spiritual awakenings and recovery. It takes long time to get back to ordinary person.

barb dwyer

The amends step comes long after getting over the denial, hon.

Sounds like he's got miles to go.

My own little opinion is the only reason he's not drinking
is the testing thing.

Denial is a long hard wall to tear down once we build it.

I wouldn't sit around waiting for it were I you.

(Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George thinks he's owed an amends.)

Thing is to keep the mind on our own next right thing to do.

cagreg9

Thank You All.Maybe he is only not drinking because of the testing, who knows? But he is definitlely not drinking. His huge beer belly and puffiness is gone. I wish I could say its not my problem, its not really. But I don't want my kids hurt anymore then they have been. My biggest issue is the kids ! What do I do? Do I encourage a relationship? It just seems so toxic.

queenteree

If you think he's not drinking, then I agree, maybe he isn't, cause I know my AH and I know when he is and when he isn't ... mannerisms, puffy face, etc. But I don't think he is really working a program of recovery. My AH was great the first couple of months, therapy, AA, making amends, really wonderful guy ... that all started to change last month ... and you know what? Mine is court ordered too. I think the difference between the ones who make it and the ones who don't are the ones who make it, want it, the ones who are court ordered kinda just want to do their time and get it over with. They already have reservations about drinking when their "court order" is up. I don't know what to say about the kids, except the older ones are old enough to see for themselves ... how about counseling for the younger one? Alateen is also good. Hang in there, keep the faith and things will be ok
Hugs

barb dwyer

sorry about this sentence - it's too confusing:

it was too squashed up of two different recovery sayings.

the first part was to bring the mind back into 'our' area.
and stop trying to be in his mentality.

the second part
is to bring the mind back into THIS world
and do the next right thing.

even if it's just doing the dishes
mowing the grass....

anything that draws us back into our own world
and in THIS moment.

This man isn't going to be doing any ninth step work any time soon.

he's not even doing a first step.
he's only 'not drinking' because the court has ordered him tested.

soon as that's over
i guarantee you a drunk.

anyhow - that's what I was trying to squash into that messed up sentence.

ninja7

Hi, cagreg9, again!

I know every mess were made by your AH. Your children are victims for this disease. If your AH wants to recover the relationship between him and children, you may help him. Your AH is the only dad of your children. Healthy relationship makes healthy mind for your children. Fighting is not the answer. I think you should persuade your AH that it takes bit long time to recover his relationship to the children. It depends on his recovery and his recovery also takes long time. Not a couple of months but a couple of years. You also may explain him that you are willing to help reconstract the relationship between your H and children as long as he recovers. You should explain alcoholism to your children. As long as your AH recovers, you may help your children to reconcile your AH, JMO.

veryregretful

wow, my AH has left 5 days ago. Of course he is in denial still. He is still drinking. I was also wondering about the kids. They are 15. I only say to call or text if they want to. They choose not to call/text him. Since he left on Thursday, he has only texted them today just to say hi.

I told his brother today that I am not going to take him back until he has alot of sobriety time and going to treatment. His drinking and yelling has affected my daughter as she has depression and had admitted to cutting herself. She is in therapy now and I am working really hard with her. He blames her depression and the cutting on me saying I'm so miserable that I caused her to cut.

From what I've read, I'm not going to sit here and wait until he is sober. That may never happen. My world does not revolve around him anymore. I gave him too much of my attention and I neglected my children. I hope someday that he will find sobriety but will not keep my fingers crossed. He also has to own up for what he has done and is still doing to his family.

This is very hard for me but I realize I have let this go on too long.

I hope he is a success story and wants to sober up. My father was an alki and he died at age 47 from the disease. My AH is 48.

Still Waters

This reminds me of when my AH got home from rehab, and instantly wanted "respect in his own home". He meant that my daughter should go to him for advice, not me. And that she should no longer come to me to check if it was okay to do whatever he had told her to do. Standard operating procedure when you live with a drunk - the kids seek out the sober parent.

He expected instant change on our part, yet never once acknowledged WHY things were the way they were to begin with.

Life doesn't work that way. You earn respect. Sounds like that's a lesson your AH needs to learn also.

tjp613

I have a somewhat similar situation. My daughter rarely speaks to her dad or visits him (she's 16) because she is angry that he is in denial about his alcoholism. He also refuses to accept responsibility for the very ugly scenes, like the time he kicked her bedroom door in or the time he hurt her wrist very badly in a physical altercation. The list goes on and on.... but my point is that I tried so hard to make him understand what the real problem is between them, but he maintains that it's all ME--that its my expert brainwashing techniques that have destroyed their relationship. Even in the few times when she's mustered the courage to directly confront him, he refuses to acknowledge ANY of it, so he certainly never has apologized. If he only knew how far that would go in repairing their relationship!!!

I, too, just allow the relationship to continue its natural course. I allow her to direct when she has contact with him. I am *hands off* but I am always there for her in any way she needs me to be. He can think whatever he wants, I am done caring. She and I know the truth of what goes on between us and that's all that matters to me.

ninja7

It is very natural and typical thought by dry drunk. I used to think exactly the same way as it. It takes a long time and need steps in AA or some other treatment to amend.

Still Waters

Yep. You poison her against him, it has nothing to do with his own behavior.

Alcoholics are, in many ways, like 5 year olds.

ninja7

Still Waters, Good point!

When problem happens, 5 year olds cry, alkies angry. Nothing is difference. They do not have other solution at the moment.　

PurpleWilder

I read in a book somewhere that it takes 2 years for an recovering alcoholic to get their brains out of hock and 3 years to learn how to use them.

You can't force genuine apologies and amends - getting them to grunt out a pouting "I'm sorry" is not the same as an apology and we know it, but somehow we codies think if they just say it (even if they don't mean it) that it counts. It doesn't. It'll come when it comes.

Keep yourself sane and take care of the kids until then - but it may not ever happen. Sometimes you just have to leave the clueless where they are.

naive

i would encourage the kids to speak with a therapist individually.
i would seek out books that perhaps a 12 year old could read to help understand alcoholism.
i would communicate what i know about alcoholism, dry drunks, denial and remind them how much i love them and that this is not their fault, dad's sick.
i would look up alateen in my area and see if they wanted to go.
for the elder ones, i would point them to this forum and encourage them to write out how they feel towards their father.
i would speak to them about boundaries, what they are, how to enforce them.

just my ideas.
naive

Eight Ball

Funny that, I brainwashed my 19 yr old DD too!

She has now left home as she was unable to live with her dads verbal/bullying behaviours and living on eggshells any longer and much happier away from the madness. I must say though that DD is also very switched on about alcoholism and is very forgiving of her dad and still has a relationship with him on her terms.

Funny too, that when he was sober he appologised to her and said that he would be there for her whenever she needed him. Now hes drinking again, it was all her fault they fell out and she is still calling mum if she needs help as dad cant be there for her when he is drinking as he wont drive when drinking or hes alsleep!

tjp613 summed it up for me - DD and I both know the truth, her dads an alcoholic, we cant rely on him: I am there for her, have a good relationship with her and thats what matters to me.

Learn2Live

I would mind my own business. I would not try to figure out, one way or another, what the OTHER person is doing, whether drinking, being mean, phoning, texting, talking, whatever. NONE of what someone else is doing is my business (unless that someone else is my minor child).

I would do NOTHING. I would set my boundaries, take two GIANT steps back, and go about my business.

It is not my responsibility to create, foster, develop, encourage or otherwise manipulate ANYONE ELSE's relationship with their children. THAT is THEIR job. I have enough relationships with others in my life that I am responsible for. Everyone must be responsible for their OWN business. No one needs any of our brand of "help" for this. There are books, group therapy, psychologists, psychotherapists, 12-Step groups, church groups, and even self-help DVDs/movies for people who want to develop healthy relationships with their children and others. And "But it's BEST for the children!" is no excuse for me sticking my nose in someone else's relationship with their child.

ANYONE who creates or stirs up blame, confusion, guilt, drama, or other sickness or mental angst in my life is ELIMINATED from my life. I no longer speak to people who relate in this manner. I guess you could say that I am "No Contact" from EVERYone who brings into my life anything other than peace and serenity.

Get thee to an Al-Anon meeting cagreg9.