The state of the union

Old 09-04-2010, 11:48 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 115
The state of the union

I had a state of the union talk with AH last night. He had not been drinking at the time of our chat. I have been unhappy about several issues, all of which I think are exacerbated by his drinking. It initially seemed like a productive conversation because, for example, regarding issues of AH belittling me, he actually listened to me and said that he would try to be more aware and not do that anymore.

Regarding the alcohol, the last time AH and I talked about this was a horrible blowup that ended with him saying all kinds of mean and irrational things. It ended with him saying that he doesn't have a problem, that he's going to do what he wants, that he had no intention of stopping, but that the problem is "taken care of." Well, he was sober for about 6 weeks, and then the last few weeks it's been creeping back in more and more often.

After we hashed out all a few other issues, I told him that I feel like I'm in limbo with respect to his drinking, and that I still don't like it and do not want to be around it. I clarified this because my boundary is that I choose not be around him if he is drinking. I have told him that before (but not recently), but he brought home a ton of beer for labor day weekend. So, I figured that based on his beer and his declared intent to drink it while bbq'g that I should reiterate that I wasn't kidding about the whole not choosing to be around it. He basically said that he wants to respect my wishes, but that he needs to be able to do what he wants to do, i.e. drink. So he said that when he wants to drink, he'll just do things on his own like play video games or watch a movie. I told him that is his choice, that he knows my feelings about it, that I'm not going to nag him about it, but that it made me sad that he would rather be with his alcohol than with me. He did not dispute this.

The whole discussion did not result in argument or yelling or crying, so I was pleased that it was calm and straightforward. I also feel like calmly re-stating my boundary made me more prepared to stick to it when it comes up. But as soon as we were done, AH went downstairs and watched a movie with his beer.

I know there's nothing I can do about it, but darn it, I want to fix this problem! I know it's HIS problem. But it's my problem too because I have to live with it, or choose not to live with it. I feel obligated to wait and see how it goes, but I'm not sure what I'm waiting for. Should I wait to see if he's nicer to me, as he said he would be? If he's still drinking does it matter?

Thanks for reading, I appreciate it.
SashaMB is offline  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:12 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
same planet...different world
 
barb dwyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Well, there you have it then.

It's harder to cope with when we have nothing else to do
but stare at the wall when they've gone to be with their first love.


That's where the 'get busy' part comes in.

I think it's why it eats away at us.

because we're still so entangled with them being in the front.

My own ex called it his entertainment.

he was outraged that I wanted money for the power bills and rent
that might interfere with 'his entertainment.
His drugs and booze.

Now, my situation back then ...
I had horses.
i'd go out to the pasture
and be with the horses till well after dark.

IT's part of why
my horses were the best trained and
sported the most polished grooming
in the county.

But eventually I went and got another (second) job.

That job
quickly became the primary job
and within months
I'd moved to the town, horses and all.

The point being

we are so tangled up with them and their problem
we don't know what to do with ourselves
when they're not around.

and trust me that they're NOT going to be around.
One way or another.

So -
now you've got a long weekend in front of you -

what have YOU got going on you can focus on?


maybe get out the paper -
there's TONS of stuff going on Labor Day weekend -

art shows,
sales,
air shows (in some towns)
nmovies

groups .... groups events ....
barb dwyer is offline  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:16 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, you stated the boundary, and he abided by it.

I think what we always secretly hope is that they will not simply honor the boundary, but change their behavior to something we REALLY want (i.e., that they quit drinking).

If he keeps abiding by your boundary by not drinking around you, then you have to decide whether you are willing to accept a relationship with someone who would rather go off and drink on his own than be sober with you.
LexieCat is offline  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:18 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
RollTide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seeking sanity
Posts: 645
I called it a "come to Jesus meeting" and it did absolutely no good.

Maybe find an AlAnon meeting this weekend? That always helps me.
RollTide is offline  
Old 09-04-2010, 02:28 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
Like Lexie said, he is abiding by your boundary. So, what's your REAL boundary?

You know now what he thinks. And that hurts, I've been there. And you know what you think. So now you have to decide whether ever the twain shall meet. I'm fairly certain that waiting for other people to change to fit in with me is going to be a looooong wait, so I have to change either my thinking or my situation.

Which one is it going to be? Because, as it stands you are in stalemate.
Bolina is offline  
Old 09-04-2010, 07:18 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 115
Tonight (the night after the state of the union) AH was drinking beer and playing video games, so he was obviously choosing to drink, thereby choosing not to spend time with me. Then, he comes to me and asks me if I want to watch a movie or play a game. He even offers to watch my favorite show with me (which he hates). While I really wanted to be able to say yes, I had to tell him that I wish I could, but that he had made his choice that he wanted to drink instead of hang out with me. He points to his cup, and says that it's just water. Um, yeah, it's the beer before the water that is a problem. I asked him if he had been drinking (and I know he had), and he just kind of hung his head and walked away, looking sad. I feel bad to say, no I won't spend weekend time with my husband, but how else is he going to take me seriously when I say that I don't want to be around him when he's drinking? I wish I could not feel so bad about HIS choice.
SashaMB is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 12:55 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Cool

"... my boundary is that I choose not be around him if he is drinking...

"Tonight (the night after the state of the union) AH was drinking beer and playing video games, so he was obviously choosing to drink, thereby choosing not to spend time with me. Then, he comes to me and asks me if I want to watch a movie or play a game. He even offers to watch my favorite show with me (which he hates). While I really wanted to be able to say yes, I had to tell him that I wish I could, but that he had made his choice that he wanted to drink instead of hang out with me. He points to his cup, and says that it's just water. Um, yeah, it's the beer before the water that is a problem. I asked him if he had been drinking (and I know he had), and he just kind of hung his head and walked away, looking sad. I feel bad to say, no I won't spend weekend time with my husband, but how else is he going to take me seriously when I say that I don't want to be around him when he's drinking?..."


Technically, it seems that he has stuck by what you specifically stated as your boundary. Sometimes (actually, often-times) it's necessary to be very specific with boundaries. Perhaps you should add to yours that you do not wish to be around him 'while' he's drinking, but you also do not wish to be around him if he has 'been drinking' within the past _____'x'_____(amount of time, such as past hour....)....eh......?

Just a wee clarification, eh.


(o:
NoelleR
NoelleR is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 10:18 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 115
You are right, I should clarify the boundary. I think after last night, that has probably been made clear, but I see your point. It seems like semantics, but I suppose that is the way of living with the alcohol(ic).
SashaMB is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 10:20 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
ItsmeAlice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
For years, my boundaries focused on the drinking aspect of my XABF's behavior. I counted beer cans, watched him like a hawk, faught and whined about his consumption. Finally told him he couldn't drink in the house. To get by this, he drank outside then came in wasted and then trouble ensued.
When I learned more about boundaries here I understood my error. It wasn't the beer I objected to really. It was the way he treated me. I made the direct connection that he was the greatest guy, it was the beer that made him a violent ugly man. Not true, not true, not true and he proved it by not drinking for spells and still becoming a hateful jerk. All the man needed was an excuse to lash out at me and the beer was his excuse or rather I should say it was the excuse I accepted. I would never excuse someone threatening to strike me, saying hateful things, or being abusive to my pets and yet, with his drunkness I accepted it for years.

When I adjusted my boundary to focus on his behavior rather than just the booze, things were better for me. I didn't have to be the beer police or question if he had been drinking before coming home from work. I didn't have to have debates about how many beers was too much. Either he was pleasant and respectful and I stayed around or he was agitated, mean, or threatening and I was long gone. I learned to watch for the warning signs of this behavior in him rather than sniff around for alcohol.

I actually have to admit, if beer made him a loving attentive partner, I would have been feeding it to him intravenously on a continuous drip.

Alice
ItsmeAlice is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 01:00 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
I Love Who I Am
 
transformyself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Yes, it's Semantics. When, where, how, how much he gets to drink. Doesn't it drive you crazy? What a chess game.
I feel obligated to wait and see how it goes, but I'm not sure what I'm waiting for.
Ugh. I did this while living with my AH. Then I left. I still do it sometimes now-the waiting to see what will happen part-even though we're living apart.

For me the best news is, even though I"m slow to completly let AH go, I'm also getting a life while slowly holding boundaries. I know a lot of other women my age who get divorced and go get tattoos. Get drunk. Me, I started a newspaper. I like my life now, even though it's not perfect, and that's because I'm doing what is most important to me--working on myself, gaining more income and a name for myself with my business, improving my long neglected relationships with my children and myself.
transformyself is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 03:16 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 115
transformyself, that's awesome that you have started a newspaper, you should be very proud of yourself! I actually love the part of my life that is not my homelife. I find that I'm pretty good at the compartmentalizing and detachment, but these long weekends when AH and I are both home for 3 days make me crazy. I'm really luck that I love my work, and it gets me out of bed in the morning. I can easily work from home all weekend if I want to, but the drinking over in the next room is hard to totally ignore. It makes being home uncomfortable. Now, I could normally think of errands or other things to go do, but my poor little car had to go to the shop yesterday, and they won't be able to get to it until Tuesday. So, I am homebound for the long weekend.

Alice, thank you for your perspective. You're right that the ultimate problem is when he treats me badly, and that tends to be worse when he's drinking. The weird thing about this weekend is that since the most recent talk, AH is obviously going to great pains to be pleasant and amiable even though he's drinking. So the present issue isn't so much that he's not being nice right this second, but that I can see his drinking increasing back up to where it was before. As long as it continues to be an increasing habit again, I know it will eventually coincide with bad behavior. And I refuse to have kids with someone who is a problem drinker, so part of my dilemma is whether to stay with a husband that I don't want to have kids with. But we've only been married for a year and half, so I feel I have to stick it out for at least a while.
SashaMB is offline  
Old 09-05-2010, 07:42 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
ItsmeAlice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Well, I get what you mean when you say you see his drinking this weekend ramping up and you know it's only going to make things nasty down the road so accepting his acting pleasant is difficult to do.

You see when I sought recovery I questioned a lot over having a big sit down with my then ABF to tell him about my boundaries. However, I realized my motives were more about having one last big say-so, even if indirectly, in his behavior. See, I still thought deep down that he might shape up and get sober if he saw how I was taking a new approach. My motives made it not so new a plan, though, and it was just going to come off as another ultimatum to him. (I learned this bit of wisdom here on SR and I must say it was a big turning point for me) I chose to keep my boundaries to myself and let my feet do my talking by walking away. He defintely noticed because it wasn't the way I used to leave a room. I didn't say a word. I didn't make a grumble. I didn't sigh and roll my eyes. I didn't give him any kind of "look" or say anything about his drinking in any way. I just quietly got up mid meal, mid TV show, even mid sentence (man that one was priceless!! LOL!) and left and didn't return.

He caught on to this within the first week, I'd say. He went through every emotional incantation I'd ever seen before in rapid succession in response. He was mad, he was sad, he pouted, he whined, and for sure, he was nice to a sticky sweetness sometimes. I understood from reading here that it was to be expected and that he was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at me emotionally to get things back to a level he could be comfortable with and that just wasn't going to happen. I was on one heck of a roll and it was working for me. For a change!

As much as I knew his mood would flip at any time. As much as I knew he was just being nice to make up for his drunkenness. As much as I knew that nice today could still mean nasty tomorrow. I stuck with it. As long as he was pleasant and good to me, I was there without judgement, without expectation, and without waiting for the golden moment to turn sour. Jumping from being around him this way and then dropping him like a hot potato without carrying anger and resentment with me out of the room took practice and some trial and error believe you me, but it got so much easier as I went along. I learned to enjoy the golden moments for what they were and enjoy my time doing my own thing when he wasn't worth being around. While I can say that seeing a beer in the fridge or seeing one on the coffee table next to him made me cringe, I kept my eyes on his behavior. He could sit in the room with me getting wasted, and I forced myself to let it go. In reality, he never could keep his anger in check when he drank more than few and it was kinda sad. It seemed it wasn't long before he figured out quickly that if he wanted my company he had to drink less and keep himself in control and there were many nights he could manage it.

I get what you mean that you want to at least stick it out and give him the opportunity to make the choice of his marriage over the booze. I stayed to my path and let him work on his own entirely. This was the first time it was entirely on him to deal with his addiction. I certainly wasn't going to tell him what to do anymore. In his struggle to choose, I thought he might even make a go at sobriety and AA at one point. I won't say the booze won because in my heart I believe he made the choice to continue drinking because even when he knew I was leaving him he didn't try to stop me as he had done in the past.

I say, keep working your recovery and keep learning more about boundaries and detachment. Work the program because the program does work. Find out what you want out of life and pursue it. You can't make him into something he's not, and if he makes a different choice for himself in what he wants out of life then you will know it's time to move on.

Here's my anology of the day...

If I married a man who decided after the wedding he wanted live in a snake pit at the zoo and was adamant that he would return to his snakes every night since I am sadly afraid of snakes and in my heart of hearts I'd prefer to live in a tree snuggling squirrels, well what do you think is the more reasonable decision for me to make here.

1) I could go try to learn to swallow my fear so I could live with the snakes despite the panic attacks and sleepless nights.
2) I could fight tooth and nail with him to share time in each habitat leaving me home alone most nights crying after drag out fights over the issue.
3) I could agree that life is about change and if I want different things that he does, we could separate and pursue happy lives elsewhere.

Well....I tried #1, things degrated to #2, and when I finally reached true acceptance that we were different people making different choices despite our years together, I opened my heart to #3 and have been pursueing my own happy life every day since.

Best to you,

Alice
ItsmeAlice is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:12 AM.