Why don't they just leave.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Why don't they just leave.
I have been thinking about this as I explore my own situation, and wanted to share a few thoughts and resources (in a pretty random order).
When I came to this site I posted some about my partner’s alcoholism, my thoughts and feelings and despair regarding that, but although he had already been violent towards me at that time, I never mentioned the past violence, or the current covert and overt threats to my physical safety. Mostly I just read other people’s posts and the replies to them and tried to apply the advice to my situation. The reasons for this are complex, and beyond the scope of this post. So my first thought is that there may well be other dynamics going on than can be gleaned from a few or even many posts from any member on here.
Relationships that feature abuse carry a burden of secrecy that go far beyond non-abusive alcoholic co-dependent relationships, and is based in fear of very real consequences. If a poster discloses abuse here, this may well be the first or only time they have acknowledged this ever. That in itself is an enormously courageous step, and requires support if it is to be repeated. The reception someone receives is likely to determine whether they feel able/safe to disclose again.
A relationship that features abuse and addiction can appear to have many similar dynamics to the (on here) run of the mill alcoholic-codependent dynamic, but is several orders more complex: addiction doesn’t cause abuse, but the combination results in an abuser with a far more dangerous risk profile, and requires a different approach to that in al-anon. Detaching from an abuser can ramp up the abuse, and endanger the poster’s life.
Responsibility: again, the dynamic is different, and more complicated, many people in abusive relationships are not in any sense volunteers. Talk of responsibility in the context of an abusive relationship will very probably be perceived as blame. Whilst we cannot control how someone perceives our words, I think there are situations where more caution and understanding are advisable. Responding in a way that implies that the poster has responsibility for remaining in the firing line is doing the abusers work for them. Lundy Bancroft states in his book (referenced below) that “what friends and family don’t understand, is that when an abused woman refuses to “look at her part” in the abuse, she has actually taken a powerful step out of self-blame and towards emotional recovery.”. Obviously, only the poster can start the process towards making themselves safe, but this is best supported by professionals who work with them to understand the full gamut of their situation.
Children: This is understandably especially emotive. Being in a relationship with an addicted abuser, when you share children increases the complexity even more, and changes the options and decisions open to the poster. I wince when I see well meaning responses along the lines of “you have a choice, your children do not”, it is exceptionally unlikely that a mother/father with an abusive partner does not agonise over the choices to make that will keep their children safest (physically and psychologically). Posters may well be taking significant personal damage to protect their children. To imagine that a poster has never thought about how their current situation is affecting their children shows a profound lack of understanding and reinforces the twisted reality that the abuser works hard to maintain. Many abusers use their children to control their partner, leaving doesn’t always solve this problem, legal systems can fail parents trying to escape abuse, people contemplating this need support from those who can really help, not implied criticism for not acting right now. Again, only the person within their own particular situation, with support from professionals who know the resources available and likely outcomes can make this decision. As unpalatable as it might be, it is important to understand that very, very rarely, the safest decision for the children is to stay put, at least for a bit, and if someone is reaching out and disclosing on here, we have to trust that they are on the road to making the decisions that are best in their situation.
Tough love: doesn’t work in this situation. The poster is likely to have heard more strong messages, experienced less sugar coating, had much tougher “love” than anyone here can dole out. Many partners of abusive people have been systematically psychologically destroyed, by a skilled manipulator, using techniques similar to those used to control and destroy prisoners of war (see second link). In order to make informed long-term choices, posters need gentle patient support and respect.
My intention with this is not to critisise or point fingers, but as I reflect on my own recent past, how I viewed abusive relationships, and the great place that SR is, I hope that it offers some insight for those without first-hand experience of an additional problem that is often here.
There is a list on here taken from Lundy Bancroft’s “Why does he do that”. I re-read it often, to try and keep my rescuing tendencies in check.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...sed-woman.html
another great resource is here:
Lindsay Ann Burke Memorial Fund: Why Don't They Just Leave?
When I came to this site I posted some about my partner’s alcoholism, my thoughts and feelings and despair regarding that, but although he had already been violent towards me at that time, I never mentioned the past violence, or the current covert and overt threats to my physical safety. Mostly I just read other people’s posts and the replies to them and tried to apply the advice to my situation. The reasons for this are complex, and beyond the scope of this post. So my first thought is that there may well be other dynamics going on than can be gleaned from a few or even many posts from any member on here.
Relationships that feature abuse carry a burden of secrecy that go far beyond non-abusive alcoholic co-dependent relationships, and is based in fear of very real consequences. If a poster discloses abuse here, this may well be the first or only time they have acknowledged this ever. That in itself is an enormously courageous step, and requires support if it is to be repeated. The reception someone receives is likely to determine whether they feel able/safe to disclose again.
A relationship that features abuse and addiction can appear to have many similar dynamics to the (on here) run of the mill alcoholic-codependent dynamic, but is several orders more complex: addiction doesn’t cause abuse, but the combination results in an abuser with a far more dangerous risk profile, and requires a different approach to that in al-anon. Detaching from an abuser can ramp up the abuse, and endanger the poster’s life.
Responsibility: again, the dynamic is different, and more complicated, many people in abusive relationships are not in any sense volunteers. Talk of responsibility in the context of an abusive relationship will very probably be perceived as blame. Whilst we cannot control how someone perceives our words, I think there are situations where more caution and understanding are advisable. Responding in a way that implies that the poster has responsibility for remaining in the firing line is doing the abusers work for them. Lundy Bancroft states in his book (referenced below) that “what friends and family don’t understand, is that when an abused woman refuses to “look at her part” in the abuse, she has actually taken a powerful step out of self-blame and towards emotional recovery.”. Obviously, only the poster can start the process towards making themselves safe, but this is best supported by professionals who work with them to understand the full gamut of their situation.
Children: This is understandably especially emotive. Being in a relationship with an addicted abuser, when you share children increases the complexity even more, and changes the options and decisions open to the poster. I wince when I see well meaning responses along the lines of “you have a choice, your children do not”, it is exceptionally unlikely that a mother/father with an abusive partner does not agonise over the choices to make that will keep their children safest (physically and psychologically). Posters may well be taking significant personal damage to protect their children. To imagine that a poster has never thought about how their current situation is affecting their children shows a profound lack of understanding and reinforces the twisted reality that the abuser works hard to maintain. Many abusers use their children to control their partner, leaving doesn’t always solve this problem, legal systems can fail parents trying to escape abuse, people contemplating this need support from those who can really help, not implied criticism for not acting right now. Again, only the person within their own particular situation, with support from professionals who know the resources available and likely outcomes can make this decision. As unpalatable as it might be, it is important to understand that very, very rarely, the safest decision for the children is to stay put, at least for a bit, and if someone is reaching out and disclosing on here, we have to trust that they are on the road to making the decisions that are best in their situation.
Tough love: doesn’t work in this situation. The poster is likely to have heard more strong messages, experienced less sugar coating, had much tougher “love” than anyone here can dole out. Many partners of abusive people have been systematically psychologically destroyed, by a skilled manipulator, using techniques similar to those used to control and destroy prisoners of war (see second link). In order to make informed long-term choices, posters need gentle patient support and respect.
My intention with this is not to critisise or point fingers, but as I reflect on my own recent past, how I viewed abusive relationships, and the great place that SR is, I hope that it offers some insight for those without first-hand experience of an additional problem that is often here.
There is a list on here taken from Lundy Bancroft’s “Why does he do that”. I re-read it often, to try and keep my rescuing tendencies in check.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...sed-woman.html
another great resource is here:
Lindsay Ann Burke Memorial Fund: Why Don't They Just Leave?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Thanks for the very wise post.
No, it is never a simple "stay/leave" decision. I worked in the domestic violence field for close to 10 years and it is every bit as complicated as you say. Victims are often at highest risk of being killed when they are in the process of leaving.
A good domestic violence counselor can be very helpful in lethality assessment and safety planning. I wasn't a counselor but I know what they do.
No, it is never a simple "stay/leave" decision. I worked in the domestic violence field for close to 10 years and it is every bit as complicated as you say. Victims are often at highest risk of being killed when they are in the process of leaving.
A good domestic violence counselor can be very helpful in lethality assessment and safety planning. I wasn't a counselor but I know what they do.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Awesome post Jen. It has been discussed here before that the dynamic of dealing with an abusive alcoholic is indeed different than dealing with a non-abusive one.
Even detachment can be a trigger for violence.
And I believe you are 100% correct that there is much that isn't said, or cannot be said. I know don't feel comfortable revealing too much. Hopefully that will change soon.
One thing: My AH strenuously denies he was and is abusive. You truly don't think anyone will believe you, after being told it's all you, that you're crazy, that you're lying...
Even detachment can be a trigger for violence.
And I believe you are 100% correct that there is much that isn't said, or cannot be said. I know don't feel comfortable revealing too much. Hopefully that will change soon.
One thing: My AH strenuously denies he was and is abusive. You truly don't think anyone will believe you, after being told it's all you, that you're crazy, that you're lying...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Wonderful post, Jen. Thank you.
I've often found myself wishing for a forum about abusive relationships compounded by alcohol/drug addiction. I find some here and some there, but: Forums for recovering from abuse include a little side note about alcoholism or drug addiction, forums for AlAnon or friends & family focus on recovering from our behaviors based on A's alcoholism have a couple threads about abusive relationships.
On any given day, my recovery focus may switch from dealing with the A to dealing with his abuse. Sometimes, I'm not sure which one the I'm trying to detach from: his alcoholism or his abuse.
Hmm....
I've often found myself wishing for a forum about abusive relationships compounded by alcohol/drug addiction. I find some here and some there, but: Forums for recovering from abuse include a little side note about alcoholism or drug addiction, forums for AlAnon or friends & family focus on recovering from our behaviors based on A's alcoholism have a couple threads about abusive relationships.
On any given day, my recovery focus may switch from dealing with the A to dealing with his abuse. Sometimes, I'm not sure which one the I'm trying to detach from: his alcoholism or his abuse.
Hmm....
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: central coast, ca
Posts: 1,652
Like Lexicat I worked at a womens shelter too. Violence does escalate when a woman tries to leave..that is why leaving safely must always be the priority. I understand the need to be gentle, too, but staying in an abusive relationship is never a good idea. Extracting the family safely is. In CA, it is a crime (child endangerment) to expose a child to domestic violence..those charges can and are brought against the mothers who do not remove their children from violent homes. The children do not even have to witness the abuse, if they are in the home (or sometimes even if ther is evidence that a child lives there) both parties will be arrested.It is the legal responsibility of both parents to protect the child from living in those circumstances. I work with children who are victims of DV..the effects are horrible and long-lasting. Have to diasgree about not urging the moms to protct their children by leaving (safely).
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I don't think punishing the victims for "exposing" the children to violence is the answer. The blame should be squarely on the abuser. I agree that concern for the children should be paramount, and sometimes that does mean removing the children from the home. But prosecuting victims for coping the only way they know how isn't right, IMO.
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