hugs,
chicory

Chicory,

My own thought would be that, rather than go to court (where your son would see Mom running interference for him), you might call the prosecutor and speak with him or her about your son's addiction.

Your son might not be honest about it in court, but you might influence the prosecutor to require treatment as a condition of probation.

This way, responsibility for complying with the court-ordered treatment would still be squarely on him, but it gives him a chance if he's willing to take it.

Just a thought.

MMkM,
Yes, I read your posts, and really feel for you and what this must be like. I was glad to hear that you are finding a good way to deal with the problem, on your end. Thank God for protective services, and for this forum.


I really like the idea of making my own workbook study. I love reading, and look forward to many of the books recommended here. I may be able to stretch this little atrophied brain a bit (does this thing have spell check?)

I also am interested in meditating. And on spending time , thinking about each of the twelve steps. there is a lot to learn, thank goodness for the brilliance that is shared here.

thank you, and i am glad that you are here. I will keep good thoughts for you and your father. I am glad that you are taking care of you. I guess I had better do something for myself. I love to oil paint. Maybe I will drag out the paints and see if there are any fit to use:)
hugs,
chicory

Wow.

You are clearly a lovely, loving person and I don't want to hurt you, you've been hurt so much. But... You don't think he can make it, his sisters don't think he will ever make it on his own... and I think the best thing he can do is to get away from all the people who think he can't do it. IMVHO, I don't think you can do him any good at this point in his life. The people who love him best, who know him best don't think he can do it.

So is it surprising, he doesn't?

The funny thing about addiction is that is often gets so bad that you can't drink enough to get joy out of it, all you can do is drink just not to be utterly miserable. Sooner or later, if he doesn't let it go, it will let him go.

There are people who cannot make it on their own. The severely mentally ********, for example. The brain damaged. Those with dementia. Tumors, etc... And guess what? There are group homes and a wide variety of good places for them.

Homeless people--they have those solutions too, but most of the homeless reject services that would permit them to live a more comfortable and conventional life. They will make no compromise and no concession for the advantage that the safety net will offer them. Just like your son will not accept Food stamp money if it means he has to participate in job training. It's a choice.

It doesn't matter which one he is; HE is going to have to deal the cards life/his biology/his choices has dealt him. Just like everyone else on earth.

Is his life more hellish than yours? At least on occasion he gets relief through his drugs and alcohol. As you called it, his 'joy'. He drinks because it makes him happy, he's getting something out of it.

Of course it will take a great big change, but why should you be afraid of that change, particularly if it causes him to stop abusing?

Chicory,
I went to Alanon. They told me I didn't cause it, couldn't control it, and couldn't cure it. I too, took my daughter to psychs because of her behavior,,she lied and told them she wasn't using drugs. She was diagnosed with major depression..I am not trying to tell you that if you go the tough love route everything will work out. BUT, what you are doing IS NOT WORKING. That is what motivated me..I saw the people at Alanon and decide to try it their way. They had a peace I did not have. In many cases, their behaviors led to their lo9ved ones changing behaviors too. If you listen to what the recovering addicts say, they were piised when their parents stopped enabling, but it turned out to motivate them in the long run. I have not been strong, I have cried many times, before I got to alanon I was wishing I would die I was in so much pain..I was so sick...still am , but working on it. The reason I was able to hold my boundaries, was that I gave myself over and TRUSTED that what those who had been ther were telling me..I was so low, I was done doing it my way..wasn't working. I see you taking steps in that direction..keep going, each little bit gives you more confidence. EVERYONE is essentially giving you the same suggestions, we are here to help. We wouldn't ever tell you to do something we ourselves hadn't done. Give him the dignity of his own recovery.:grouphug:

wow- lots of questions here.
first- saying that we are afraid that he cant do it , well, we love him lots. and we are just afraid that he wont . he has not shown any sensible choices for a long time now. he is very selfish. we base it more on his selfishness than on lack of ability, as I think about it.

he chooses to manipulate, to get his way.

I know that drinking and pot do not bring him joy, just some release from his discomfort.

Of course, I want him to be able to do his own thing. would I be here, if i did not? but, I still can be afraid, since he may end up wandering the streets, and get clubbed on the head, robbed, and maybe get into worse things, due to the fact that he is a gentle soul, when he is not feeling strung out. he tends to believe in the rebel types, who are drinking and smoking under a bridge somewhere.
he thinks that he should be able to do illegal drugs.

he thinks that his sisters should help him, since they have nice homes, and enough money to live on. he resents their non-desperate lives. they worked hard for them.

he thinks that I have a religious problem and that is why i dont want him to drink here.

he has not worked a job for longer than three months, in his life.

he forgets to write his schedule at work, and gets mad if i urge him to call and find out, and gets fired.

he could not figure out the bus schedule, in order to get to work, and got fired.

he gets a job, gets a check, drinks, stays up all night, and decides to take off a day here and there, gets fired.

he has never been at fault ,in getting fired (all bad luck, and unfair bosses)

drank up to the time to go in night shift, and I would not let him leave drinking , in my car, to go to work. says it is my fault he lost that job.

he says it is wrong that the cops arrested him, with the bowl of pot in his car. since he was homeless,and bothering no one. says he did nothing wrong. was wrongly arrested.


he went to live with my sister, on condition of not drinking at her home (last year), and within a day or two, was drinking vodka, and following her around, being nasty. claims that she has the same religious prejudice against drinking- she had to call police too, to get him gone.

would you have much hope in a person who cannot seem to use any self control?

He has wonderful qualities, and is smart, and talented in many ways. he just has no faith that anything can go right. but never makes a step in the right direction, or if he does, booze sidetracks him.
like a person who doesnt try and cries "woe is me". that is my son.

now, I need to do something different. taking him in 6 months ago has not helped. He needs some real help. or some hard knocks, maybe?
chicory

Keepinon,

Thank you dear. I know that you all are helping me. I have a big fear, and i am sure that it is evident that I am going to ahve to be pushed , like a stubborn mule.
Believe me, I appreciate all this help. it is so complicated, but then, I am hearing that it is as simple as let go, or be dragged. Just do not ever want to be guilty of not helping when I should have, you know? i have little wisdom to draw on. but this is a great resource.

Chicory, NO ONE could ever accuse you of not trying to help your son. You have done all that anyone could possibly do. Until your son realizes that he is the only one who can change his situation, he will never get better. As long as you are there to pick up the pieces, remind him to do things he should remember on his own, refuse to let him drive your car after drinking, etc., then he is going to blame everything on you. Until it is only HIM around to blame these things on, he will never get it. The common denominator in all of his problems is himself. He sabotages himself. If there is no one around to take care of him, he will have to learn to do it himself. I am confident that he can do much more for himself than he has been.

Baby steps Chicory! Keep posting!we have all been there.....:c011:

(((Chicory))) - I'm sorry you're going through all this. Don't feel embarrassed about being a codie and doing codie stuff...most of us have done the same, or similar.

I would not accept his phone calls, nor get him a calling card. For one thing, you really DO need the time away from him to even begin to think straight, or at least I did.

Coming to you as an RA, I can also say that I NEEDED to deal with the consequences of my addiction before I could even THINK of recovery. These included jail, and being told "no, we will not accept your collect calls", as I was calling dad like crazy. I, too, needed that time to see that "whoa, I've got myself in a real mess and dad can't/won't get me out of it".

Not only that, but even though I have had tremendous support in my recovery, it's still MY recovery. It's a pretty nice feeling to know I've done the work to get where I am today. If someone else is working our recovery, we don't appreciate it, and we're not as inclined to hold onto it for dear life.

We each need to work our own recoveries. I think, for me, the codie-recovery is by far, the hardest:( It's also the most rewarding, when we allow people the dignity to live their own life.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Chicory,

Minus the drugs and alcohol, you are describing my 24 y/o son to a tee. He doesn't get violently out of control, but he has the same kind of personality--life is unfair, it's too hard to get a job, yada yada. He's currently living with his dad and finishing an associate's degree with no idea what he will do with himself. He hasn't worked longer than three months, either, and wonders why no one will hire him (any job he could get, he claims, is a "crap" job). My son also has suffered since he was very young with anxiety and depression. He has only intermittently cooperated with any kind of treatment plan.

I've expressed my views of this, but his dad is supporting him and their arrangements are between the two of them. I don't feel right being too critical of his dad, because I'm not the one who would have to enforce the "tough love"--I absolutely understand how hard it is to push someone like this out of his cozy nest. I wouldn't allow that to continue here at my house, but it isn't my house, he and his dad are both adults, so I gotta detach.

Thanks Amy,

I wish him dignity, most of all.

Lexie,
Thanks for sharing that. My son has always been as nervous as a cat. anxiety is his biggest complaint-
I hope that things work out for your son. In school- that is great.
I wonder sometimes how much anxiety plays a part in their choices.
hoping for good things for him, and my son too.

This has become a very interesting thread!

I'm reading, but part of me is pulled back,
and I'm watching these women...

some of whom I've come to know over the last couple of years
I'm seeing these wonderful beautiful women
rally around another
giving comfort, experience strength and hope.

And I'm seeing it make a difference!

I don't know whether to cry or jump up and shout out the window!

LOL

Just a lot of experience and some strict talk on what we really have to do to not be dragged along here - again wish this forum was here years ago.

The worrying about him being on the streets or them getting into danger is the worst.

It drove me to absolute hysterics - my Mom would hire taxi cab drivers and sneak out late at night to go get lots of liquour. It was awful the worries and what you think will happen (I had called her Dr., siblings, friends about it; yelled accusations at my Dad at how could he have let her get out - she was unable to drive at that point).

And now here full circle. A street man who we cannot get a last name on lives at my Dad's home and is left in his care. Just recently a 'son' has shown up there. I just reported it to APS and mentioned it briefly in conversations to a sibling (the stepmom is getting free/low cost help and attendants for my Dad this way to fill in gaps of any home nursing).

What a difference. Yes, painful, but I have got activities to do today and am working on me. My actions are different now, still working on the worry - but as they say here you will get stronger with each step you take.

So, even housed the streets and the dangers can come to our loved ones.
And there is nothing we can do about it except go beserk with worry or calmly report it to appropriate authorities and follow the advice on this forum.

chicory-

since you are a person of faith, have you taken a look at the 12 steps of alanon?

if i was you, i would stop enabling him. this means that you educate yourself on what is enabling.

i found it best to stop trying to control the other person. in my case, that meant that i could not live with him any longer. i needed my own space. simple. once i got my own space, i set to work on my own recovery.

we can not control anyone except for ourselves.

keep posting, keep talking, keep reading. you will find your way, with god's help.

naive

So have you heard what happened in court?

I was thinking about you today.

me too - I came by to see if there was an update?

son came home while i was at work, i have an evening a week.
he did not speak, was in his room, and i did not approach him.
i put in a call to his dad, to see what transpired in court.
no word yet.
I can call the prosecutor too, as soon as I find her number, amongst all the slips of paper with numbers that I have been jotting down lately.

I need to get to a meeting. Formulate a plan. I have gotten lots of good advice here, and ideas. I am hoping that I can get an eviction notice served on him without notifying my landlady. I really like my place- close to my work and affordable.

trying to focus on recovering from codie behavior- am finding out just how sick we are here!

I will update as soon as I know what happened in court. he is withholding information, and I do not wish to talk to him, until i know what needs to be said. waiting on God.......:)

hugs,
chicory

update- sons dad emailed me back, and said that all fines and charges against son were dropped.
I hope that son appreciates this break.

This is good, for me. Will make it much easier, to let go, knowing that he has a clean slate to start with, as far as financial obligations. I noticed that he mailed in some of his medical stuff yesterday. that was an improvement on the nothing he was doing before.

hugs,
chicory