Why should YOU pay $35 for HIM to call you? What do you suppose he will say to you if you do? That this is all your fault? That you should come to his rescue?

My mother is only now beginning to see that all the 'helping' she did for my brother was no help at all.

He grew up knowing that no matter what he did, or how much trouble he got in to, mom would swoop in and take care of it. He is now 40 years old. He is divorced and has spent time in jail for beating up his wife. My mom paid for his lawyer. She took guardianship of his children. Did anything she did for him make him see the light and act like an adult? Quite the opposite. He thinks he is entitled. As Barb said, he thinks he is above the law. He believes that the rules are for everyone else, but don't apply to him. And now there are two innocent children caught up in the mess.

You've done all you can for him. It's up to him to take it from here. He either will or he won't, but it's not on you. We all make choices in life. Allow him to make them.

L

Chicory,

I would not take any calls from him right now. I'd give it some time, some space. He's a big boy.

Is it possible for you to see a counselor? I know mine was invaluable to me when my head was so wound up in the crazy making.

Carol,

*embarrased to admit* he is 38.

I wanted to help him pay the fines from a year ago, so he could get a job, his license back so he can drive to a job. thought he might straighten up, with the help, but he is just getting discourged again, and in a bog of depression and anger.
his dad and i began to pay some on them when we could, but we stopped, as his actions were not of a person trying to help his self.
i will not pay on his fines again, nor any new ones.
they cant kill and eat him, as they say. i have big debts too, which my son never felt inclined to help with. even tho most of it was incurred helping him, over a year ago. he had a job, but started taking off days to party with his girl, and thought that it was ok, everyone does that in construction. well, who was the guy who got fired? he was.
he used his money for booze, and i was helping him to pay rent so he would not have to live with me. well, that did not last long. maxed out my credit cards.

i am sorry, i know that my disfunction must sound pathetic. this did not happen over night, and has been coming for a long time.
he is still trying to call me.
i do not want to accept the calls. he will be safe there, and what can i do to help him now?

Wow! Even a mother's unconditional love cannot cure a disturbed mind. Unfortunately if he thinks he doesn't have a problem "HE" doesn't. It will always be somebody elses problem. How ever when he has to start being accountable for himself by himself "without momma's or somebody elses help" it may become easier for him to admit he has problems. Don't "love your son to death" he needs real help tough love maybe the only option. If you enable you can kill.

What she said.


Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

When/if your son ever gets his act together, he'll probably thank you for doing the right thing. The longer we shelter people from the consequences of their addiction, the longer they are able to keep using drugs.

Sounds like divine intervention to me.

I hope you let him sit there for a while. For his sake.

I am sure that it is a good idea to see someone. I know that the local goverment funded mental health center has some, just dont know how good they are. i cant afford to pay one right now.
I will not set myself up for the "Phonecall from Hell"-

You guys are as good as counselling, anyway!

Chicory, you need this time away from him, and talking to him on the phone would only make you feel worse. He is safe where he is and he has to learn that actions have consequences. You have done all you can do for him. Now, it's time for him to start doing for himself and it's time for you to start taking care of yourself. As badly as you feel right now about him being arrested, it just could be the start of something better. ((((HUGS))))

Bravo Chicory!

Please honor yourself and unplug the phone!

The part about your debt from helping him out, write it down and keep it in your wallet. Every time you want to financially help him, you will see your reminder of how it ends up - more unpaid debt.

I am glad that this happened tonight. I needed some relief and so did he.

It is like divine intervention.

I am so sad that my son is not the son I know anymore. we have had a close relationship, and have had so many laughs together. i know that he does not want to be this way.

I am sad that he has never been able to be on his own.

He couch hopped for years, at friends , who were all into computer stuff, and I think that no one ever told him that it is not right to do that.

he has not once had his own place, paid for by his self.

I am so afraid that he may never have it, and it breaks my heart.

I was always afraid that his dungeons and dragons , computer addiction, and now alcohol and chemicals, were his way of escaping the world .
I let him spend way too many hours on the computer, and not any on being responsible. maybe he feels i abandoned him, to his own devices?

i think i need to stop trying to figure it out.
does "what or why" matter now?

Aww, Chicory. Please don't beat yourself up over this. I want to share some random bits of wisdom about parenting I've received over the years.

When my daughter (first child) was born, a very dear older friend of mine told me two things. That children are the source of the highest highs and the lowest lows you will ever experience. And also that no matter how they turn out, you cannot take the blame or the credit. These pearls have stayed with me for many years.

The other thing that stays with me is this piece from "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran:

I believe that parenting is a temporary gig. We do the best we can with the wisdom and the resources available to us at the time. Then the job ends. We don't stop loving them, but we must let them go. We cannot live their lives for them. Only they can do that.

I may be talking out my butt, because my children are only 17 and 13, but this is how I look at it.

I hope you can find the strength to take care of you, and to let him take care of himself.

((((()))))

L

Just a word about restraining orders.

It's very true that they do not, in and of themselves, keep anyone away who is determined to return.

The advantage of a restraining order is that it results in mandatory arrest BEFORE some other crime is committed. Thus, the offender can be locked up after a phone call, after showing up on your doorstep with candy and flowers, after sitting outside your house watching you from the car.

It also provides other temporary relief, such as financial support, requiring that utilities be paid, etc.

It isn't a kevlar vest, but it does, in fact, provide some protection. A DV counselor or victim advocate can explain what it does and doesn't do.

Chicory, I see no need for you to accept his phone calls. Give yourself a break. I was envisioning a kid in his early 20s. A man of 38 should be responsible for himself.

I LOVE this story. Love it. Yes, it looks to me like your HP is doing for you waht you cannot do for yourself.

Seems to me you're being handed a gift, like the bazillion you handed your son. He spit on your gifts, what will you do with this one?

I hope you take this time of no contact from him and really focus on YOU. What you need. How to make that happen.

Just like so many post about here, when we are no contact with the A, we become clear headed.

I know you love your son, but we can't change others, only ourselves. And when we become the change we want to see in the world, the world changes.

What you're describing about your home life with him, and this is my interpretation, is a man locked in his own hell of addiction, and you sacrificing your life to live in it too, right next to him. Taking the blame. Trying to help in the only ways you know how.

He's not your father Sweetheart.

I hope you go to fifty bazillion al anon meetings while he's gone and develop a plan of action for when he gets out, while your head is clear. And I also strongly recommend you don't speak to him or offer help. He's a grown man, one that is perfectly comfortable blaming you, abusing you and then switching to a man child that needs your help. He's sick and needs help-and you can't give it to him. I can't help my AH, and thank the heavens I no longer want to. But it took leaving him to get there, otherwise the guilt ran my life.

What's wrong with stating your boundaries with him? Are you saying he hit the wall and made a hole because you had taken your sinus pills before he could?

Psuedoephidrine is what people use to make CRACK and people who abuse it are dangerous. I bet your HP did dial that phone. What a gift!

I hope you're ok. I hope you're working to shift your thinking from your son to yourself.

big big Hugs!

He is.

Amen. You just need to step out of the way and trust in HP.

Your son created his own mess. Let him have the dignity and opportunity to work his OWN way out of it.

Chicory, if you read back all your posts, this is what I hear over and over:

Son - TAKE TAKE TAKE. TAKE SOME MORE. Take because I can, because she'll let me.
Mom - GIVE GIVE GIVE. Give until I have nothing left and then I'll try to give some more.

He will continue to take as long as you continue to give. And he's done a great job so far of knowing your weaknesses, knowing that you love him so much, and he takes advantage. If someone let me get away with all this, I'd keep taking too! There is no incentive for him to take any responsibility, and EVERY incentive to continue to prey upon your willingness and not have to face all the crap he's gotten himself into.

This is your son and you love him. I'm sure he loves you too but in the throes of his addictions and distorted thinking, he does not see you as his loving mom, but as a vessel to use to continue his lifestyle and to get what he wants. If you can remove yourself from the chaos enough to recognize this, then this may give you the strength to let him walk on his own 2 feet instead of carrying him. And at 38, he is more than capable.

A final thought - if you try to help him in healthy ways, you have a greater chance that he can be the person you had before that you shared laughs with. Continue this unhealthiness and you will have a greater chance to have more.....of the same.

Chicory.. you know that I have a heroin addicted daughter. I tough loved the hell out of her ..hardest thing I've ever done.. she is now asking for help (who knows what will happen, but she is in rehab now).. I know that is all you want, for your son to get help. BUT, you are not a Dr. , therapist, addiction specialist , or recovery center and even if you were any of these things, a parent cannot treat their own child. transform myself said it..what are you going to do with this GIFT? Life, God, HP, whatever has come for your son.Are you going to get in the way, or move over so whatever needs to happen can happen? This isn't a magic cure, but such an opportunity for you and your son. Do not rob him of this opportnity to be a man and figure out his own life.

Transformyself said:
This is how it is. You are so right . I am sacrificing myself. Cause I love him, and dont want him to go down alone.

I am so afraid he is going to go down. He is so stubborn, and thinks he knows it all.

My father was just such a lost soul. He did not get his life together, until my mom divorced him, he moved away to florida, met a woman and got sober. became a volunteer fireman, and lived a good life. He died of a heart attack at 51 years old.:(

But, he died having known happiness, and that makes me happy.

he did not get to live, love and teach his 9 children. Just bits and pieces of his time were ours. And most of it drunk. When he was sober, he cared, but he could not stay sober. I have often thought my son is like my dad.

I am so so very grateful for this group- have I told you all that? I need the strength i get here. I feel so very broken,and am angry at myself for enabling him.

He has court tomorrow. near by- I could go. Is there any reason that I should? Is there any chance that it could help him to get help, if I talk to the judge, and tell him that my son needs help? son was diagnosed bipolar2, and by another doc, with situational depression. Should i get out of the way, and let what happens happen?

I found out last night what sent my son off. He had gotten a letter, from food stamp dept, that they were not going to send him his "gas "allowance this month, since he has not shown up for the work program, in the two months that he has received it. he was using it, to drink on, for a few days. would lay real low here, and tried not to over do it, but I knew. I know that he was anticipating getting it, and having some relief.

about the sinus meds. i had some in the bathroom cabinet, and he took one at night, two the next day, and was a hateful bear . i saw the ones left on his table and took them away , for he was going to do more of it.

I think that it woudl be better if i do not go to court, tho i could maybe influence a lesser fine. but i should not , right? he needs to learn how to get by in the world, if he is going to. I am unsure about this .

I know Keepinon, I have been folowing your posts about your daughter, and keep her in my prayers. It must have been quite a tough way to go, while you were not enabling her. I admire you, for being so strong.
Were you a member here, while you went through that experience? What helped you the most?

I was thinking about it today, how my enabling is like an addiction.
I spent a lot of time, think about what are the things i can and cant change. Think that there is not a lot of things that I can change, except about me.

hugs,
chicory

He is a grown man. Let him try to get the judge to enable him :)