The Self-Absorbed and Self-Centered Alcoholic
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
We are playing the victim when we stay with them. We are choosing to live in hell when we stay with them.
But, if they choose to drink, they have a disease. If they choose to be abusive, they can't help it.
lol
But, if they choose to drink, they have a disease. If they choose to be abusive, they can't help it.
lol
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
>>...Yes, they are powerless. Yes, they also have the power to make different choices...<<
So they are actually not powerless.
So they are actually not powerless.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
There is a lot of confusion about this reference to powerlessness. I sure was confused about it. I think the greatest confusion stems from people forgetting to add the rest of the statement to powerlessness: powerless over alcohol.
If you just describe the alcoholic as powerless "in general", it is a misinterpretation of step one.
Sorry if I am being pedantic!
And yes bucyn, I agree, I am powerless over alcohol, but I can make choices in my life, the most important one not taking that first drink.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by littlefish 
Step 3 in AA.
I had a hard time accepting that I was self absorbed because my profile is to be a martyr/victim, (I am also codependent), so I couldn't see it. I thought egotism was the guy standing on top of the hill screaming for attention and thinking he was just fantastic.
I didn't understand that the guy hiding under the rock hating attention and hating himself is also self-absorbed. Anything that makes you concentrate on yourself to the extent that you don't think about others is self-absorption, even if it is self hatred.
I had a hard time accepting that I was self absorbed because my profile is to be a martyr/victim, (I am also codependent), so I couldn't see it. I thought egotism was the guy standing on top of the hill screaming for attention and thinking he was just fantastic.
I didn't understand that the guy hiding under the rock hating attention and hating himself is also self-absorbed. Anything that makes you concentrate on yourself to the extent that you don't think about others is self-absorption, even if it is self hatred.
I read step 3 a lot and I feel a peace from it.
It's nice to see one can heal and learn.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by Linkmeister
Summerpeach-I'm at the same juncture as you are and I have read and reread this thread, wanting to gain that understanding, and in my case, wanting to dissect what went wrong, wanting that proof, wanting to see in black and white the reasons things have happened the way they did.
My brain kept telling me to let go, that my ex's actions were a part of the disease but my heart couldn't let go, couldn't get around it and as much as I knew it was time to let go, that lonely pain in my heart kept pulling me back.
Throughout the past few weeks, I saw the signs of relapse and kept telling myself that to keep any shred of my self respect, to know that I couldn't live with active addiction was the right course to go and yet, I kept clinging to the hope that things could and would be different. We made a fragile truce and that lasted all but two days.
The truce was broken when he suggested a visit to my place-just a visit to spend some time together which turned into request for dinner then to stay the night. His thinking was all was back to "normal" and that this would help him heal, my reluctance at any more than an afternoon visit was that it's been just a couple of weeks and after all we have been through (yet again, same song, different verse), all we talked about doing things differently this time, about recovery, about the reasons that brought us to this juncture were all passed by the wayside as he once again asked me what he said and did to hurt me so much.
I knew that nothing had or will change and as hard as it was to walk away from this, it seemed a bit easier because I had this thread in the back of my mind, the wise words from all who have posted, the fact that I had been to an Al-anon meeting earlier in the day.
Yes, it hurts, the pain is hard to bear but it's something I have to go through in order to move on.
My brain kept telling me to let go, that my ex's actions were a part of the disease but my heart couldn't let go, couldn't get around it and as much as I knew it was time to let go, that lonely pain in my heart kept pulling me back.
Throughout the past few weeks, I saw the signs of relapse and kept telling myself that to keep any shred of my self respect, to know that I couldn't live with active addiction was the right course to go and yet, I kept clinging to the hope that things could and would be different. We made a fragile truce and that lasted all but two days.
The truce was broken when he suggested a visit to my place-just a visit to spend some time together which turned into request for dinner then to stay the night. His thinking was all was back to "normal" and that this would help him heal, my reluctance at any more than an afternoon visit was that it's been just a couple of weeks and after all we have been through (yet again, same song, different verse), all we talked about doing things differently this time, about recovery, about the reasons that brought us to this juncture were all passed by the wayside as he once again asked me what he said and did to hurt me so much.
I knew that nothing had or will change and as hard as it was to walk away from this, it seemed a bit easier because I had this thread in the back of my mind, the wise words from all who have posted, the fact that I had been to an Al-anon meeting earlier in the day.
Yes, it hurts, the pain is hard to bear but it's something I have to go through in order to move on.
When I speak to the great men who recovered in this thread and to those I speak to off SR, I see there is hope for change.
But hanging on to your ex while active, and if he shows no signs of active recovery, then yes, letting go is the only option.
hugs
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
Originally Posted by Leise
Zbear, you always hit it right on for me.
Even though I am past the heart wrenching pain... that took me six months to recover from...
I've learned a valuable lesson.
My happiness and my life are more important than his. This is my time on this planet and I won't waste any more of my precious hours hoping, wishing and wasting away for ANYONE.
Can I tell you now, from just what happened to me, that thank god I met that alcoholic man. Without that pain I would not have been motivated to make positive changes in my life, and would have continued on, to my dying day, my rescuing and drama-seeking behaviours.
This site, that man and all of you are a GIFT to me.
Hugs to you Summerpeach, you've been given the gift of insight. Doesn't mean much now, but it will later if you are like me. Gads... I need a tissue.
Leise
Even though I am past the heart wrenching pain... that took me six months to recover from...
I've learned a valuable lesson.
My happiness and my life are more important than his. This is my time on this planet and I won't waste any more of my precious hours hoping, wishing and wasting away for ANYONE.
Can I tell you now, from just what happened to me, that thank god I met that alcoholic man. Without that pain I would not have been motivated to make positive changes in my life, and would have continued on, to my dying day, my rescuing and drama-seeking behaviours.
This site, that man and all of you are a GIFT to me.
Hugs to you Summerpeach, you've been given the gift of insight. Doesn't mean much now, but it will later if you are like me. Gads... I need a tissue.
Leise
I've had so much pain in my past, and I agree, it's always turned out to be a beautiful gift and I can say, this pain, as hard as it is, has already given me the gift of insight.....insight into me, why I need to change, my recovery and how I can chill the hell out a little more.
Pain has always motivated me to face my fears.
My happiness is truly important, but so is the happiness of the people I care about.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the big ole' world....
Posts: 545
Originally Posted by Summerpeach
It's hard to let go if you have contact....I understand.
When I speak to the great men who recovered in this thread and to those I speak to off SR, I see there is hope for change.
But hanging on to your ex while active, and if he shows no signs of active recovery, then yes, letting go is the only option.
hugs
When I speak to the great men who recovered in this thread and to those I speak to off SR, I see there is hope for change.
But hanging on to your ex while active, and if he shows no signs of active recovery, then yes, letting go is the only option.
hugs
As for those great men you talk about in your post-like you, I see hope. Their posts have helped me see beyond the active addiction I can no longer live with, to know that others have faced their demons and are living their lives.
I have had yet another visit from exABF (always at dinnertime) and the booze was emanating out of his pores. Instead of engaging him, responding to his pleas of "Please tell me what I have done to deserve this", I shut the door. Told him to go. When he wouldn't, I reached for the phone to call the police. Luckily, the cabbie waiting for him realized what was going on and escorted him back to the cab. Coming to my place was his only option as I blocked my phone and email.
All is fine, I'm fine, my furry child is fine and in spite of this latest incident, in spite of the sadness, I feel pretty peaceful and serene because I looked out for myself and stood my ground.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
[B]What Exactly Is a Dry Drunk?
According to Hamilton B. in Getting Started in AA (Hazelden 1995), a dry drunk is a “condition characterized by a return to alcoholic thinking and behavior even though the alcoholic has not yet returned to drinking”. Some common character traits for un-recovered alcoholics are fault-finding, blaming others for everything, grandiosity, self-centeredness and manipulating or trying to control others. These are mental aberrations and are only one element in their many-faceted disease. They are not at fault.
Thank you Summerpeach for beginning this amazing thread. This is exactly what caused me to stop seeing my EXRABF who has been DRY for almost 7 months.
Chapter 5 in the AA Big Book clarified a lot of this for me as well. We are clearly struggling with the same uncertainty and quest for understanding.
Thanks for sharing.
According to Hamilton B. in Getting Started in AA (Hazelden 1995), a dry drunk is a “condition characterized by a return to alcoholic thinking and behavior even though the alcoholic has not yet returned to drinking”. Some common character traits for un-recovered alcoholics are fault-finding, blaming others for everything, grandiosity, self-centeredness and manipulating or trying to control others. These are mental aberrations and are only one element in their many-faceted disease. They are not at fault.
Thank you Summerpeach for beginning this amazing thread. This is exactly what caused me to stop seeing my EXRABF who has been DRY for almost 7 months.
Chapter 5 in the AA Big Book clarified a lot of this for me as well. We are clearly struggling with the same uncertainty and quest for understanding.
Thanks for sharing.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
I spent alot of time trying to understand, and read about, how "addicts" think, how "codependents" think, how "abusers" think. Tis was not wasted time, for me, although I eventually came to the place where I am right now which is that I will never really know how another person thinks, or why, and that I believe each of these labels is just a description of a pattern of behaviours which come about as a result of core beliefs and thinking patterns that have developed throught time, which are then reinforced by the results of the behaviours. (I hope that makes sense!).
How this has been useful to me is not in the exploration of others, but in application to myself. I am prone to a couple of mental illnesses: clinical depression and severe social anxiety (which sounds insignificant but can lead me to be captive in my own home). Are these inherited? well my mother has suffered from both: but there's a nature/nurture thing there. they are real, and respond to a combination of external therapies (medication, counselling) and internal work. Are they diseases? I believe I have an organic physical predisposition to these, but that also they are a collection of behaviours that are both based on and feed really unhelpful core beliefs that I have about myself (which are centred around my utter unworthiness to exist). This is how I view addiction: a coping mechanism for a set of core beliefs that reinforces itself in an ever increasing positive feedback spiral.
none of this would excuse bad behaviour (stealing, lying, manipulating others, violence etc) on my part, however driven by those illnesses/core beliefs that it was. I have insight right now into both my depression, and my social phobia, if I allow them to get an in, I can spiral to a place where I have no insight: not denial, no insight, and I have required outside agents to provide that insight and have had to take a leap of faith and allow the help that was needed. I imagine there is a place in addiction that would fit that too.
Changing core beliefs is darn hard work, whatever they are. None of that means that other people have to stick around in the wake of my hurtful behaviours.
How this has been useful to me is not in the exploration of others, but in application to myself. I am prone to a couple of mental illnesses: clinical depression and severe social anxiety (which sounds insignificant but can lead me to be captive in my own home). Are these inherited? well my mother has suffered from both: but there's a nature/nurture thing there. they are real, and respond to a combination of external therapies (medication, counselling) and internal work. Are they diseases? I believe I have an organic physical predisposition to these, but that also they are a collection of behaviours that are both based on and feed really unhelpful core beliefs that I have about myself (which are centred around my utter unworthiness to exist). This is how I view addiction: a coping mechanism for a set of core beliefs that reinforces itself in an ever increasing positive feedback spiral.
none of this would excuse bad behaviour (stealing, lying, manipulating others, violence etc) on my part, however driven by those illnesses/core beliefs that it was. I have insight right now into both my depression, and my social phobia, if I allow them to get an in, I can spiral to a place where I have no insight: not denial, no insight, and I have required outside agents to provide that insight and have had to take a leap of faith and allow the help that was needed. I imagine there is a place in addiction that would fit that too.
Changing core beliefs is darn hard work, whatever they are. None of that means that other people have to stick around in the wake of my hurtful behaviours.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23
How do they expect addicts to fully & honestly address their behaviors working the 12 steps if they aren't fully aware of their behavior & avoid painful situations at all costs?
I'm always seeking understanding in this process as a wife of recovering alcoholic, not disbelieving but trying to wrap my brain around all this new world.
I'm always seeking understanding in this process as a wife of recovering alcoholic, not disbelieving but trying to wrap my brain around all this new world.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by nbunderstanding
How do they expect addicts to fully & honestly address their behaviors working the 12 steps if they aren't fully aware of their behavior & avoid painful situations at all costs?
I'm always seeking understanding in this process as a wife of recovering alcoholic, not disbelieving but trying to wrap my brain around all this new world.
I'm always seeking understanding in this process as a wife of recovering alcoholic, not disbelieving but trying to wrap my brain around all this new world.
That's actually what the 12 Steps are designed to do--to make the alcoholic fully aware of his/her behavior and to learn to deal with painful situations without avoicing them. Steps 4 through 12 address those issues.
You don't get well BEFORE you work the Steps, you work the Steps TO get well.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 46
A truely recovering alcoholic will not continue to blame the disease, although they have accepted that they are powerless over it and only a higer power can restore them to sanity. A truely recovering alcoholic will be quick to admit when they are wrong because they "soul search" as part of their program and continue to do so in recovery.
However, an alcoholic who has only stopped drinking and is not working on the aspects of their personality that cause them to drink, will not be changed. It the difference between truely working a program, a program that will lead to serenity, and just trying to stop drinking, which might keep them out of legal troubles but will not make them feel at peace.
My RABF prays to god every morning and night that his higher power will grant him true recovery. He still slips, even if it is not by drinking, it will be in his attitude, but he seems to realize it sooner and try to right his wrong.
Alcoholism is the only disease that tell's you you don't have a disease. That is why it is not only physical, but mental as well. And I read in an article I found on this site, that without the LIE's that alcoholics tell the disease could not exist. I think that is what is meant by a spiritual awakening or enlightenment. It is the point when you truely see your disease for what it is and only then can you find a true path to recovery.
However, an alcoholic who has only stopped drinking and is not working on the aspects of their personality that cause them to drink, will not be changed. It the difference between truely working a program, a program that will lead to serenity, and just trying to stop drinking, which might keep them out of legal troubles but will not make them feel at peace.
My RABF prays to god every morning and night that his higher power will grant him true recovery. He still slips, even if it is not by drinking, it will be in his attitude, but he seems to realize it sooner and try to right his wrong.
Alcoholism is the only disease that tell's you you don't have a disease. That is why it is not only physical, but mental as well. And I read in an article I found on this site, that without the LIE's that alcoholics tell the disease could not exist. I think that is what is meant by a spiritual awakening or enlightenment. It is the point when you truely see your disease for what it is and only then can you find a true path to recovery.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
I've had many people tell me they are amazed, given my life, that I never turned to alcohol or drugs to cope. I don't see it that way though. It isn't amazing, it is just I chose to handle things differently. Maybe it was how I raised (doubtful) or personality but I could have easily taken that path.
Many times I thought how easy it would be to numb the pain and I had a fascination with opiates, even asked a friend where I could get some (thankfully she never told me where) but I did not want the self destruction that comes with that life.
I can honestly say I chose to not cope with life as an addict. I could have a gene, who knows.. maybe it just hasn't been activated yet (which can happen late in life btw) but there were many times I really thought that would be a much easier way to cope. It would have been very easy to start given the level of emotional pain I was in at my lowest. But I did not.
I've always thought that the core issue with alcoholics/addicts are simply poor coping skills. Pain sucks so numbing it is much faster (at least initially) than to face our shortcomings or hardships. I peered over that ledge but stepped away from it. Why others jump off it is a mystery.
But I think it is much more in one's control than we've been told to believe it is.
Many times I thought how easy it would be to numb the pain and I had a fascination with opiates, even asked a friend where I could get some (thankfully she never told me where) but I did not want the self destruction that comes with that life.
I can honestly say I chose to not cope with life as an addict. I could have a gene, who knows.. maybe it just hasn't been activated yet (which can happen late in life btw) but there were many times I really thought that would be a much easier way to cope. It would have been very easy to start given the level of emotional pain I was in at my lowest. But I did not.
I've always thought that the core issue with alcoholics/addicts are simply poor coping skills. Pain sucks so numbing it is much faster (at least initially) than to face our shortcomings or hardships. I peered over that ledge but stepped away from it. Why others jump off it is a mystery.
But I think it is much more in one's control than we've been told to believe it is.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
