justjo,
he came to my bedroom door, and was angry, cause the other benadryl pill was gone. I took it and told him so, as to not go through anymore of the raging that he did today. that has only made him worse! he put a hole in his bedroom door, threw his things into boxes, into his car (with expired plates, no gas, no license,, and a warrant!). i told him that he needed to calm down, and try to talk about it. he would not. still raging from the two benadryl, plus one last night. if he is bipolar2. as first psyc. said, he could be having bad reaction to benadryl? not sure, but I know that some imbalances dont mix well with some meds.
anyway. he did not drive off. i called his dad and he told me to just let him go. that he cant be allowed to treat people like this. he is right. son stormed out, walking for more cigs i guess. came back and said," if you think this is all about drugs, you are so wrong." he told me i needed to get help. I cannot discribe how i felt at that moment- it was like i almost laughed, and I thought "I can do this- I can kick him out!" but , it passed, and I am here, hoping that the madness is done for the night.

I hope no one is feeling like " what is she waiting for?" cause, i think i would, if i were reading this. no, not really. but you are right. This is not my son either. my son is usually tender about my feelings, always willing to listen to my troubles, and when he worked at a grocery, he noticed a lady who would always come to look in the dumpster behind the store, and he would leave the food out for her, so she would not have to dig in trash for her meals. I just want to say that he is worth all the trouble to me. I do realize that I cannot help him this way. Maybe he is trying to get thrown out- maybe he knows this is terrible.

hugs,
chicory

chicory, when I went to the library to get codependent no more and it was out, I walked out with another one called "Addict in the Family". It opened my eyes in a major way. It is a terrific book and the author is the mom of a heroin-addicted daughter. Although it talks generally about addiction, there is a lot of info on parent-child situations like yours. It addressed everything you said in your original post. The lying, deceit, manipulation, how she became a crazy mother along with other stories. Also has some stuff from the addict's point of view, very eye-opening.

In my early days on this forum I heard something compelling (sorry I can't remember who to credit them) - what if that time that you swooped in to save the addict again, would have been the time they reached their bottom and would have gotten help?

Powerful because as I posted recently in another thread, we think we are doing the right things, but maybe we're wrong. We think we're saving, helping, but in reality we may be perpetuating a bad situation or worsening one. If you were truly doing the right thing, you wouldn't still have such a terrible situation, right? So maybe something has to change and so that has to start with you because you can't change him. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is for you but we all have you in our hearts.

btw it's Addict in the Family by Beverly Conyers. You can read a bit of it here online:

Amazon.com: Addict In The Family: Stories of Loss, Hope, and Recovery. (9781568389998): Beverly Conyers: Books

[QUOTE=chicory;2690031]justjo,
he came to my bedroom door, and was angry, cause the other benadryl pill was gone. I took it and told him so, as to not go through anymore of the raging that he did today. that has only made him worse! he put a hole in his bedroom door, threw his things into boxes, into his car (with expired plates, no gas, no license,, and a warrant!). i told him that he needed to calm down, and try to talk about it. he would not. still raging from the two benadryl, plus one last night. if he is bipolar2. as first psyc. said, he could be having bad reaction to benadryl? not sure, but I know that some imbalances dont mix well with some meds.
anyway. he did not drive off. i called his dad and he told me to just let him go. that he cant be allowed to treat people like this. he is right. son stormed out, walking for more cigs i guess. came back and said," if you think this is all about drugs, you are so wrong." he told me i needed to get help. I cannot discribe how i felt at that moment- it was like i almost laughed, and I thought "I can do this- I can kick him out!" but , it passed, and I am here, hoping that the madness is done for the night.
Yes, the old, I'll blame you trick. My son did this many times as he walked out the door smashing windows and screaming down the road. The monster gone mad and I was the one who cried all night.

I hope no one is feeling like " what is she waiting for?" cause, i think i would, if i were reading this. no, not really. but you are right. This is not my son either. my son is usually tender about my feelings, always willing to listen to my troubles, and when he worked at a grocery, he noticed a lady who would always come to look in the dumpster behind the store, and he would leave the food out for her, so she would not have to dig in trash for her meals.
Time, when you have had it, it will happen

I just want to say that he is worth all the trouble to me. I do realize that I cannot help him this way. Maybe he is trying to get thrown out- maybe he knows this is terrible.Right on, he is pushing all your buttons, just waiting for you to give him a consequence. He'll keep pushing you too, until you have had enough. Why would he leave when he knows there is no consequences. When my son put a hole in his bedroom door, his step father took the door off. He screamed and yelled like a 2 yr old having a tantrum, so he was told if he didnt like he knew what he could do. So he went and stayed at a friends place for 2 weeks, then wanted to come home. He was given a bucket of 'bog' to fill in the hole and made to do it himself before the door went back on. There were many more holes after that, thats when Id had enough, changed the locks and the rest is history

JJ

It sounds as if you have been through it all jj.

I am sorry that you had that happen to you.

He is waiting for a consequence, but it would be me calling the police, or maybe the mental health crisis people. they may take him , if he is threatening me? Or if he seems unstable.
If he can "act" stable when he needs to, is he unstable? that is quite a question, isn't it!

My head is pounding from crying , my heart has a cold chill wrapping around it, and I am beaten. It seems like no productive movement happens until there is a crisis, but it should not be that way, should it?

I have no advice, but wanted to send you hugs and tell you that I'm thinking of you...stay strong and do what is best for you.

Thank you FarawayFromCars,

I do appreciate that. Nothing like being cared for. So much good sharing here, it is amazing how much information there is. I wish i had a comfy chair (butt is numb) and a week of vacation, just to read many of the personal accounts here.

Hope you are having a good night, free from any worry. I assume it is night where you are.

hugs,
chicory

I keep coming back to your post chickory as it was one of my nightmares and yes I think for one person, I have been through enough in my life, buts thats whole other story. But I have learned alot.

Its ok to cry, I cried so many times because I felt so helpless, I thought I was fighting for my childs life, and I think I was. Yes, maybe your son will need a huge crisis in his life - for change. I hope not - we just never know what the next day will bring living in fear. When we let go of that fear (that person we dont know) and leave them to work it out for themselves, we just never know what road they will choose but I had to take that chance because I couldnt do it for him.
My son still wobbles off the road sometimes, but he always knows the road to home. A peaceful home that wont put up with any b_llsh_t again.
Take some time to rest Chickory.
JJ

I know, it is like fighting for their lives! I appreciate how you keep stressing "the person we dont know". It is helpful- I would not let anyone treat me this way. And he is not my son, not this monster. this is your brain on drugs=my son the monster.

thank you for your encouragement. I feel like with enough of this, and crisis days like this, I will eventually do the right thing. I seem to see my son through some other glasses- like he is unable, like his hands are tied. There seems to be some sort of belief system in place here- one in which I see him as helpless. Where is that coming from? Helpless does not fit him at all. Maybe resisting risk taking. A lot of resistance, even to the point of making excuses for not trying things. He has the most ridiculous explanations for why he does not try this or that.

guess i will take a acetominaphen,, and get this head to stop hurting , so i can sleep.
big hug to you! and have a good night.
chicory

Oh chicory your story is a heartbreaker.

I only know that when I stopped enabling my Abros it was a very difficult time of change for me. It was so painful to turn them away, stop giving them money, stop letting them sleep in my apartment, stop listening to their BS. I felt sooooooooo bad.

At first.

But because of all I was learning at AlAnon it was just like a muscle that I had never exercised and it got stronger and stronger and it began to make more sense to me why I had to stop enabling them and why I had to do what was best for my mental health. I mean sometimes, they were just ANIMALS and dealing with them or validating them in those moments in any way was killing me. It really became about my sanity - I allowed myself to be pushed right to the brink....

They have managed fine without my enabling. It had no effect on their drinking, but it did lead to a more respectful relationship between us and one where I can talk to them about a book or a movie or something with some dignity - it was embarrassing and horrible how they used to behave around me, I literally shudder to remember some of those bad scenes.

But it didn't start with me kicking them off my couch...it started with me accepting my powerlessness over them, finding support for myself, and detaching from their choices & behavior.....

massive (((((((hugs))))))
I hope you find some peace of mind soon--
B

Bless your heart, B,
I can imagine how tough that was. My girls have tried to help their brother in the past, but have detached themselves. It is a good thing.
I am getting what you say about it being like a muscle. and about it being a matter of our sanity. I guess it would not be any good for my girls, and my grandbabies, if i went crazy WITH their brother.
I am happy that you have found peace for yourself. I hope someday that your brothers have peace, too.
(((((((((((((big hugs back atcha)))))))))))))))))
chicory

hello chicory-

many of us have arrived here when life with our addict became "unmanageable". your prayers have been heard as all sincere, selfless prayer is heard.

when i first started my recovery, i began my day immediately upon rising to connect to my hp, for strength and guidance. every day, out of bed, on my knees (which is where i already was) and praying. the alanon serentity prayer is a good one to use if you don't know how to pray.

"give me your yoke, i will carry it" - jesus as christ

sometimes, the hard choice and the right choice are one and the same. this world is suffering and people are going crazy. perhaps your son is going crazy.

have you tried communicating (when you are not emotionally upset) to your son that you want to live alone? it can be as simple as that.

why not simply tell him that you want to live alone? and ask him to find another place to live. and give him a date, like a month from now.

i agree that it would be good to research some mental health support for him, perhaps a psychiatrist for an initial assessment, followed by on-going therapy should he be willing.

your son is a grown man now and at some point, we must leave them to their soul plan for their life and honor our own soul plan. it's his life.

naive

Hi Naive,
Thanks for your help. I actually had him evaluated, by two psycs, and one said bipolar II, the other said situational depression. I think he was trying to say the right things, to get something for his "nerves". I know he has alwyas been high strung, but he has abused alcohol, and has none now. he has no job, no income. he is in a place where his options are few, but he is so reluctant to take advice either, always was. doing it his way has brought him here, and he cant see it or wont.
ii have told him that i want him to leave, hoping that he will try harder, he just laughs, saying what can he do. no job, no car, fines he cant pay resulting in a warrant. he has always been so agitated by most things, and cant deal with working. no excuse.
Thanks for the sweet words about prayer. i just took your advice, and i pray for God to get me through this day.
last night, my son punched the door of his room, and i had to take him to the hospital, he was in pain and nearly got sick at his stomach. i feared it was broken. he had taken two benadryl, anything to maybe make his day better. bad idea. he was agitated,a nd angry that i took the benadryl away. it was mine, and he was being emotioally unstable.
they xrayed, and said it did not look broken, but put a brace on it. and gave a script for pain meds. i am so worried about that. he will probably just save them to snort later. for the "excape" that he is loooking for. i know he is in pain, and it may be fractured. I do not want to give him sometihng he can abuse, but dont want him to be in pain. he will be agitated, if i say no. maybe he needs them, too. i am going to try to see if we can work it out that we dont get them. i cant afford much, and he knows that too.
i pray that God helps me through this day, with no further sad drama.

thanks and please say a prayer that help for him can be had. he probably does need meds, for depression, and anxiety.

take good care, and thank you- i needed this advice this am:)

Maybe get a bottle of Tylenol or Advil for him to take for pain. Him not being allowed the prescription for stronger pain meds would just be a consequence of his bad decisions in punching out the door. If he knows he can get pain meds by doing that, what's to stop him for doing it again?

Thank you HP, for the doctor that prescribed Lodine for sons wrist. a non-narcotic nsaid. will only have to listen (maybe) to son complain about that. wont listen actually- am going to spend the day with daughter and little grandson.
thanks for this forum. Thanks for small blessings.

hugs
chicory

Have a day great Chicory!

I read here once, I forgot who said it I'm sorry and I might be repeating...

But they said "don't deny your child the gift of rock bottom"

My RAH has called it the "gift of desperation"

I think as mother's we feel guilty about everything bad that happens to our kids. And we'll take pride in all good. It's part of being mommy.

Nature and instinct is what drives us. Putting your child out goes against everything we are made of, it's just not supposed to happen. That is why it is so impossible.

But nature (or God) never factored in drugs and alcohol. I know it's sort of a deep theory. But I think the normal parenting rules don't apply. With d&A abuse we have to do what it is learned not what instinct dictates.

You will do the right thing for you and your son at the right time.

Stop punishing yourself Chicory. You are a wonderful mom no matter what decision you come to.


HUGS

What's stopping you? Most likely fear. That's what stopped me. Fear that my boyfriend would drink himself to death without me being there to monitor or stop him. Fear that I would fall apart without him. Fear that I would be alone. Fear that I could not handle things financially on my own. My list went on and on.

So what choice did I ultimately make?

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

Oh, and by the way, my son sounds VERY much like yours. We kicked him out and he's been having a pretty rough go of it but getting better now. He was also diagnosed as bi-polar a few years ago.

My logic has been this: We tried to get him 'on track' to have a manageable life (psychiatrists, meds, rehab, college, trade school). He rejected all of that in favor of street drugs. Yes, he has an addiction and a psych. disorder but no matter WHAT I do for him now, it will not help him in the long run....I will not always be here to protect him. My son, whether sick or not, has to learn how to manage his own life. HE has to choose to see his doctors and stay on meds and get good rest and eat right and get exercise.... I can't do any of those things that will help abate his illness for him. So that is how I've learned to let go -- by keeping in mind that he HAS to learn these things now and unfortunately he's chosen to do it the hard way. But guess what?! He is making some progress! FINALLY! It's not easy, and we all backslide from time to time, but I think you need to think about giving it your best shot.

((((Hugs)))) to you.

I think that tough love is putting the addict first. It is the easy thing for us to put ourselves first and let them run all over us, abuse drugs and alcohol in our homes and do nothing, thinking that we are loving them by keeping them home. The hard thing, the loving thing to do is to make them face their own consequences. We make ourselves feel better by enabling the addict. We keep our guilt at bay, and try to lie to ourselves that we are doing the right thing. I am the daughter,sister, and wife of alcoholics. My mom was the Queen of enabling. I know all about it. Trust me, you will be doing him a favor by turning him out, and saving yourself in the process. H