Husband promises to quit, but wants to have a choice?
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
We were in that spot at the very start where I started seeing that drinking was an issue. Moderation just did not work. Even when he went to an outpatient program where they set goals and identify triggers - the workbooks collected dust and when we went just around that time to my work xmas party I asked if he's made his plan and he hadn't. He created one on the fly and yada yada yada....I left the party early because he didn't stick to it and I saw trouble coming.
And now....after 2 yrs of Al Anon and a recent relapse by AH that has been cause for some huge growth for me in my recovery, when I see you post it really makes me wonder, why he is bargaining with you on something he does; this used to be our dynamic but now I see it for the dysfunction it is. I now find this concept a bit weird to tell the truth. Especially knowing what I know about alcoholism; that he's bartering to keep his 'love' to try to keep all parties happy, him and you. Problem is, he doesn't have that power either, just as you don't. It's like bargaining with someone else's stuff. And this concept also finally turned on the light bulb for me in my unhealthy relationship dynamic - why is my husband, a grown man, seeking permission to have a drink at a wedding from me? Am I his mommy? An enforcer? He knows you don't like it so he tries to bargain, and yet I see this as perpetuating his immaturity whilst compounding a parent-child relationship.
I now see my AH as a grown, independent adult, perhaps incapable of making decisions but able to seek out resources to help him become capable and a person in his own right that can do what he wants and when, just like me. His alcohol intake is no more for me to moderate as his dinner is. If I don't like it, I can take steps for me as opposed to bartering with him, which is the healthier thing to do. Everyone is respected this way; even in the face of a such a destructive thing as alcohol.
And now....after 2 yrs of Al Anon and a recent relapse by AH that has been cause for some huge growth for me in my recovery, when I see you post it really makes me wonder, why he is bargaining with you on something he does; this used to be our dynamic but now I see it for the dysfunction it is. I now find this concept a bit weird to tell the truth. Especially knowing what I know about alcoholism; that he's bartering to keep his 'love' to try to keep all parties happy, him and you. Problem is, he doesn't have that power either, just as you don't. It's like bargaining with someone else's stuff. And this concept also finally turned on the light bulb for me in my unhealthy relationship dynamic - why is my husband, a grown man, seeking permission to have a drink at a wedding from me? Am I his mommy? An enforcer? He knows you don't like it so he tries to bargain, and yet I see this as perpetuating his immaturity whilst compounding a parent-child relationship.
I now see my AH as a grown, independent adult, perhaps incapable of making decisions but able to seek out resources to help him become capable and a person in his own right that can do what he wants and when, just like me. His alcohol intake is no more for me to moderate as his dinner is. If I don't like it, I can take steps for me as opposed to bartering with him, which is the healthier thing to do. Everyone is respected this way; even in the face of a such a destructive thing as alcohol.
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Wow, very insightful post silkspin, thank you! Yes, we for sure have this type of relationship. He calls me his mother many times. I am at this point where I'm sick of the dynamic that you are talking about in our relationship and I want us both to take responsibility for our actions and choices. I have to learn that he can change if he wants or not and that he has responsiblity over his life not me. I'm realizing that I need to take steps to feel healthy and get healthy and that if I'm tired of living with alcohol in my life than I need to take steps to do that. It takes a lot of pressure of me that I shouldn't have been putting on myself, because it wasn't my place trying to get someone to stop drinking. I think so much of my identity was wrapped up in our relationship, marriage and family that I tried to fix the problems that weren't mine to fix and then it made it worse. If he wants to drink and sees that as a part of him and the way he is then he can. He always said that I am trying to change him and control him. Which if I'm honest I did. But, I felt very controlled and like he was trying to change me. Everything was fine if I didn't say I had a problem with his drinking, and remained in denial. But as soon as I stood up to the lies, behaviors, or alcohol, beware, all heck would break lose. He even told me that he tried to punish me at certain times because I was nagging or bringing it up. When you are right in the middle of everything it all get muddled and sick. I was letting go of basic things I needed like trust and companionship because I thought I just needed to accept it or maybe it wasn't that bad and went into denial, fear, and anxiety.
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Originally Posted by silkspin 
when I see you post it really makes me wonder, why he is bargaining with you on something he does; this used to be our dynamic but now I see it for the dysfunction it is. I now find this concept a bit weird to tell the truth. Especially knowing what I know about alcoholism; that he's bartering to keep his 'love' to try to keep all parties happy, him and you. Problem is, he doesn't have that power either, just as you don't. It's like bargaining with someone else's stuff. And this concept also finally turned on the light bulb for me in my unhealthy relationship dynamic - why is my husband, a grown man, seeking permission to have a drink at a wedding from me? Am I his mommy? An enforcer? He knows you don't like it so he tries to bargain, and yet I see this as perpetuating his immaturity whilst compounding a parent-child relationship. .
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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He always wants me to compromise or give up something or guarentee that I'll stay with him if he does this or that. He makes me feel like I don't put an effort in and don't love him. I do love him, but I guess I don't know how to show it and still disagree with the drinking. I wish things were different 
It is sad, I miss him and I miss being a family and I miss the things that we used to do together, but I know the reality of the way things are and I have to let him do what he wants and I can't keep living with it in my life and stay sane. I really would love just to have a healthy relationship with him, but instead our relationship is bringing out the worst in me and I'm seriously started to live disfuctionally even more so and I hate myself and I'm so ashamed of my life and the way I am and the way our lives are. I know it isn't all him. I chose this life too and the way I act. I could have made different chooses. All I can do is move on and be true to my values, help my kids and make good decisions.
It is sad, I miss him and I miss being a family and I miss the things that we used to do together, but I know the reality of the way things are and I have to let him do what he wants and I can't keep living with it in my life and stay sane. I really would love just to have a healthy relationship with him, but instead our relationship is bringing out the worst in me and I'm seriously started to live disfuctionally even more so and I hate myself and I'm so ashamed of my life and the way I am and the way our lives are. I know it isn't all him. I chose this life too and the way I act. I could have made different chooses. All I can do is move on and be true to my values, help my kids and make good decisions.
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My husband tells me that he is willing to quit at home entirely, but wants to have a choice if he is out somewhere to have a drink.
"My husband tells me that he is willing to quit at home entirely, but wants to have a choice ______________to have a drink".
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Posts: 148
Originally Posted by littlefish
Here let an alcoholic translate this for you:
"My husband tells me that he is willing to quit at home entirely, but wants to have a choice ______________to have a drink".
"My husband tells me that he is willing to quit at home entirely, but wants to have a choice ______________to have a drink".
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seeking sanity
Posts: 645
"I really would love just to have a healthy relationship with him, but instead our relationship is bringing out the worst in me and I'm seriously started to live disfuctionally even more so and I hate myself and I'm so ashamed of my life and the way I am and the way our lives are. I know it isn't all him. I chose this life too and the way I act. I could have made different chooses. All I can do is move on and be true to my values, help my kids and make good decisions."
I don't hate myself but I am still angry with myself at times. What helps me is working my 12 step program and going to Alanon. I can try and make amends for the wrongs I have caused and there is much healing in that. It's getting better...one step at a time and one day at a time.
I don't hate myself but I am still angry with myself at times. What helps me is working my 12 step program and going to Alanon. I can try and make amends for the wrongs I have caused and there is much healing in that. It's getting better...one step at a time and one day at a time.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I hate myself and I'm so ashamed of my life and the way I am
I love myself. I'm so proud of how I'm trying to face this difficult situation. I am growing and becoming more whole every day.
I hope you will do try this or something similar.
You ARE worthy. But if we don't love ourselves, who will. You are your own hero. And as long as you are doing the best you can do... well that's all anyone can ask for.
Have you ever read this? It gives me GREAT hope. I have it memorized. It's on my facebook page and it's posted in my bathroom too:
THE DESIDERATA
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by praiseHim
Wow, very insightful post silkspin, thank you! Yes, we for sure have this type of relationship. He calls me his mother many times. I am at this point where I'm sick of the dynamic that you are talking about in our relationship and I want us both to take responsibility for our actions and choices. I have to learn that he can change if he wants or not and that he has responsiblity over his life not me. I'm realizing that I need to take steps to feel healthy and get healthy and that if I'm tired of living with alcohol in my life than I need to take steps to do that. It takes a lot of pressure of me that I shouldn't have been putting on myself, because it wasn't my place trying to get someone to stop drinking. I think so much of my identity was wrapped up in our relationship, marriage and family that I tried to fix the problems that weren't mine to fix and then it made it worse. If he wants to drink and sees that as a part of him and the way he is then he can. He always said that I am trying to change him and control him. Which if I'm honest I did. But, I felt very controlled and like he was trying to change me. Everything was fine if I didn't say I had a problem with his drinking, and remained in denial. But as soon as I stood up to the lies, behaviors, or alcohol, beware, all heck would break lose. He even told me that he tried to punish me at certain times because I was nagging or bringing it up. When you are right in the middle of everything it all get muddled and sick. I was letting go of basic things I needed like trust and companionship because I thought I just needed to accept it or maybe it wasn't that bad and went into denial, fear, and anxiety.
We always had a lopsided relationship. When I met him, he was easy-going and the get along guy, usually putting aside his own needs to help those around him. And I got out of a controlling relationship, so I then became strong and the controller so I wouldn't be a victim again. I was accused many times of controlling his life, friends etc. Even though I'd tell him - go out with your friends. I don't care, it's good, I want you to. I just don't want you getting smashed every time you see them. He didn't get the distinction and just heard that I didn't want him hanging with his buds. I was the one who pushed us to marriage after living together for a while (normal for a girl who wants to take the next step) but because he was the get along guy, he went along when truly inside he didn't feel ready. And it caused resentment. And this type of thing infiltrated all aspects of his life. He'd do things to his detriment because he didn't have the internal skills to assess and say no, then he'd feel trapped, and then he'd drink to escape. He helped me to help him remain dependent and a slave to this attitude.
Do you go to Al Anon? This is where I have learned to think about things differently, and to see my own behaviours and how they contributed. Even though we are still in troubled waters, at the very least things have improved dramatically since I removed myself from those huge responsibilities that I had no business in taking. And you are right - I now feel a burden has lifted and I am much more free to use my energy on myself - and that has snowballed my recovery, which in turns has a positive effect on him and is more likely to get him to recovery than the other way.
During his recent relapse, I detached completely and so he had no one to blame except himself, nowhere to unload the guilt. He is now back in AA, of his own volition. Had nothing to do with me, and that's as it should be.
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