alanon for the agnostic?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
WOW what a blast from the past! If you look at the original post it was written nearly 7 years ago! It's fun to see some names from my early days of being a member here- some I'd forgotten about and some I will never forget for how much their wisdom helped me to grow.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by DocSea 
(This version of the steps is an attempt to explain the spirituality of AA without resorting to belief in the existence of God or a Higher Power or taking a moral stance. It originated in Cleveland.You may find them useful as "training wheels" while you develop your own spirituality)
An Agnostic Version of the Twelve Steps (Cleveland)
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that attempts to control our drinking were futile and that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that even though we could not fix our problem by ourselves, circumstances and forces beyond our personal control could help restore us to sanity and balance.
3. Made a decision to accept things that were outside our control, especially what already is and to do the best with it.
4. Made a searching examination and a fearless inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to ourselves with total openness and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Became willing to let go of our behaviors and personality traits that could be construed as defects and were creating problems.
7. With humility we acknowledged that we had these shortcomings and with openness we sought to eliminate these shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through contemplation and meditation to improve self-awareness and adopted a spiritual approach to life as our primary purpose.
12. Having had a profound change in consciousness as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
An Agnostic Version of the Twelve Steps (Cleveland)
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that attempts to control our drinking were futile and that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that even though we could not fix our problem by ourselves, circumstances and forces beyond our personal control could help restore us to sanity and balance.
3. Made a decision to accept things that were outside our control, especially what already is and to do the best with it.
4. Made a searching examination and a fearless inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to ourselves with total openness and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Became willing to let go of our behaviors and personality traits that could be construed as defects and were creating problems.
7. With humility we acknowledged that we had these shortcomings and with openness we sought to eliminate these shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through contemplation and meditation to improve self-awareness and adopted a spiritual approach to life as our primary purpose.
12. Having had a profound change in consciousness as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
My concept of God (to the extent that I have one) is not too far from the way John Shelby Spong puts it -- not a deity, but something that comes from within ourselves. A spirit, as it were. Not the big babysitter in the sky, to misquote Pema Chodron.
In any case, thanks for posting, if you're still around here!
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 43
I have exactly the same problem with the higher power. I still attend alanon meetings only because they are the only game in town and give me a sense of relief knowing I am not the only one in the world with these crazy thoughts and problems.
I wish there were more options, but I will accept any relief i can get at this point. I get great peace knowing the progam has helped so many, and hope I can emulate their success.
I wish there were more options, but I will accept any relief i can get at this point. I get great peace knowing the progam has helped so many, and hope I can emulate their success.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
Hi and welcome!
I have never been to Alanon for the simple reason there is no any in my country, so I can not comment on it. But I have been on SR for years. I was raised in socialist country so the concept of God was always alien to me, but over the years I guess I became agnostic.
SR has awalys been a great source of wisdom for me, redardless of the fact if the posters where religious or not. I came across many different people here, with very different beliefs, and I have learned a lot from all of them.
I personally have never worked the 12 (alanon) steps, I've never read Codependant no more (book that proved to be very heplful for many people here), but still this place has been a life saver for me.
I don't want to bore you with my story, but I'll just tell you that I used to be a huge mess, totaly lost in my husband's alcoholism, and thanks to the wisdom I found on these boards I am a very happy woman today.
I believe the main principles that can help you find a path to happy life are the same regardless of your religious views or lack of them.
(Also, in the process I found my own spirituality, one that is far from typical, but that is a different story..)
I hope you stick around.
I wish you well
I have never been to Alanon for the simple reason there is no any in my country, so I can not comment on it. But I have been on SR for years. I was raised in socialist country so the concept of God was always alien to me, but over the years I guess I became agnostic.
SR has awalys been a great source of wisdom for me, redardless of the fact if the posters where religious or not. I came across many different people here, with very different beliefs, and I have learned a lot from all of them.
I personally have never worked the 12 (alanon) steps, I've never read Codependant no more (book that proved to be very heplful for many people here), but still this place has been a life saver for me.
I don't want to bore you with my story, but I'll just tell you that I used to be a huge mess, totaly lost in my husband's alcoholism, and thanks to the wisdom I found on these boards I am a very happy woman today.
I believe the main principles that can help you find a path to happy life are the same regardless of your religious views or lack of them.
(Also, in the process I found my own spirituality, one that is far from typical, but that is a different story..)
I hope you stick around.
I wish you well
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Hi everyone, great topic and I am glad it was bumped.
I am an atheist, very spiritual and have a higher power. I have a mindfulness practice which really helps me with serenity. Paying attention to my thoughts and emotions and responding rather than reacting.
What has hit me lately is that by watching my thoughts and emotions has lead to a huge improvement in my life, who is doing the watching?
I don't know but I do know it works and that the watcher has become my higher power. It could be just another level of consciousness or maybe there is some sort of non-local or group conciousness that I can tap into.
Your friend,
I am an atheist, very spiritual and have a higher power. I have a mindfulness practice which really helps me with serenity. Paying attention to my thoughts and emotions and responding rather than reacting.
What has hit me lately is that by watching my thoughts and emotions has lead to a huge improvement in my life, who is doing the watching?
I don't know but I do know it works and that the watcher has become my higher power. It could be just another level of consciousness or maybe there is some sort of non-local or group conciousness that I can tap into.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1
Love this! I've become almost allergic to organized religion since the problem drinker is super religious.
What became a bother in Alenon's reading the 12 steps was the always masculine reference to God. I've become Agnostic because we just don't know, can't define what it is that is outside of us.
What became a bother in Alenon's reading the 12 steps was the always masculine reference to God. I've become Agnostic because we just don't know, can't define what it is that is outside of us.
Originally Posted by DocSea
(This version of the steps is an attempt to explain the spirituality of AA without resorting to belief in the existence of God or a Higher Power or taking a moral stance. It originated in Cleveland.You may find them useful as "training wheels" while you develop your own spirituality)
An Agnostic Version of the Twelve Steps (Cleveland)
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that attempts to control our drinking were futile and that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that even though we could not fix our problem by ourselves, circumstances and forces beyond our personal control could help restore us to sanity and balance.
3. Made a decision to accept things that were outside our control, especially what already is and to do the best with it.
4. Made a searching examination and a fearless inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to ourselves with total openness and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Became willing to let go of our behaviors and personality traits that could be construed as defects and were creating problems.
7. With humility we acknowledged that we had these shortcomings and with openness we sought to eliminate these shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through contemplation and meditation to improve self-awareness and adopted a spiritual approach to life as our primary purpose.
12. Having had a profound change in consciousness as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
An Agnostic Version of the Twelve Steps (Cleveland)
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that attempts to control our drinking were futile and that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that even though we could not fix our problem by ourselves, circumstances and forces beyond our personal control could help restore us to sanity and balance.
3. Made a decision to accept things that were outside our control, especially what already is and to do the best with it.
4. Made a searching examination and a fearless inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to ourselves with total openness and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Became willing to let go of our behaviors and personality traits that could be construed as defects and were creating problems.
7. With humility we acknowledged that we had these shortcomings and with openness we sought to eliminate these shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through contemplation and meditation to improve self-awareness and adopted a spiritual approach to life as our primary purpose.
12. Having had a profound change in consciousness as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,617
Hi Gnin,
Welcome to SR.
Yes, I've only been to one AlAnon meeting and I won't go in to my spiritual beliefs but my understanding is that it's a welcoming group whatever your beliefs.
I found that to be true in the meeting I attended. The one person that actually came over and gave me their phone number actually said don't be too bothered by the prayers etc if that's not your thing and said it wasn't her thing.
If you find a group to be too religion based, I would keep going to other meetings until you find one that clicks for you.
Welcome to SR.
Yes, I've only been to one AlAnon meeting and I won't go in to my spiritual beliefs but my understanding is that it's a welcoming group whatever your beliefs.
I found that to be true in the meeting I attended. The one person that actually came over and gave me their phone number actually said don't be too bothered by the prayers etc if that's not your thing and said it wasn't her thing.
If you find a group to be too religion based, I would keep going to other meetings until you find one that clicks for you.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 37
I have found great relief in Al-Anon and I have never believed in God. I was not raised with any kind of religion, but I did grow up in the South, so everyone else in my extended family and all my friends were very religious. Maybe that is why referring to God or a HP in Al-Anon is not a big deal to me, my whole life people around me believed and I did not, it just wasn't my thing, so I am used to it.
I personally don't find the program that heavy on the God talk in meetings (actively working the steps might be another story) and have absolutely never felt any pressure to go that route. It is mainly about sharing your pain, learning from others who have been down that path before you and developing better ways of taking care of yourself. A lot of people find help through God or a HP, but I think just hearing others stories, what they have done that has helped themselves, and sharing your own story is immensely helpful.
Like I said, I personally have never believed in God - as found in any specific religion. I do not believe in Heaven and Hell, none of that stuff. I have always felt a strong connection to the Earth, nature, the universe, whatever you want to call it, I'm not really sure how to define it. So if pressed that is what I would consider my HP - the pull of the universe, that I am a speck in this bigger force. That is the best I can describe what I connect to, and that is a spiritual thing for me. I didn't even really have any spirituality when I started going to meetings either, I was very disconnected from all of it, but I was in so much pain that I was willing to do anything to feel better. So I just kept going and I was open minded to what everyone was sharing and instead of rolling my eyes (like I would have done before) when someone talked of God or their HP I just listened and was open to any ideas that could help me even if they seemed stupid and I *knew* they would not work at all.
It was there that I started to connect to this universal force I would say is my HP. I just needed something to trust in that wasn't me, so I went with that. I started believing in that from my experiences in those rooms. Multiple times I have been listening to someone share or a topic for the night that I don't connect with at all, but I would sit there and listen and a few days later I would be faced with exactly what I had heard shared about and I would use what I took from the meeting to navigate the situation. It was creepy how often I found that to happen and so I embraced the idea of a HP after that happened over and over and over again. I can't explain any of it, but I don't have to. I can just embrace the support and experience from others without having to have it figured out. I try not to overthink it and just take what I can from the meetings to help me get through the days.
All that to say, give it a shot, don't worry about the God stuff, you might find some relief and support that you would be missing out on.
I personally don't find the program that heavy on the God talk in meetings (actively working the steps might be another story) and have absolutely never felt any pressure to go that route. It is mainly about sharing your pain, learning from others who have been down that path before you and developing better ways of taking care of yourself. A lot of people find help through God or a HP, but I think just hearing others stories, what they have done that has helped themselves, and sharing your own story is immensely helpful.
Like I said, I personally have never believed in God - as found in any specific religion. I do not believe in Heaven and Hell, none of that stuff. I have always felt a strong connection to the Earth, nature, the universe, whatever you want to call it, I'm not really sure how to define it. So if pressed that is what I would consider my HP - the pull of the universe, that I am a speck in this bigger force. That is the best I can describe what I connect to, and that is a spiritual thing for me. I didn't even really have any spirituality when I started going to meetings either, I was very disconnected from all of it, but I was in so much pain that I was willing to do anything to feel better. So I just kept going and I was open minded to what everyone was sharing and instead of rolling my eyes (like I would have done before) when someone talked of God or their HP I just listened and was open to any ideas that could help me even if they seemed stupid and I *knew* they would not work at all.
It was there that I started to connect to this universal force I would say is my HP. I just needed something to trust in that wasn't me, so I went with that. I started believing in that from my experiences in those rooms. Multiple times I have been listening to someone share or a topic for the night that I don't connect with at all, but I would sit there and listen and a few days later I would be faced with exactly what I had heard shared about and I would use what I took from the meeting to navigate the situation. It was creepy how often I found that to happen and so I embraced the idea of a HP after that happened over and over and over again. I can't explain any of it, but I don't have to. I can just embrace the support and experience from others without having to have it figured out. I try not to overthink it and just take what I can from the meetings to help me get through the days.
All that to say, give it a shot, don't worry about the God stuff, you might find some relief and support that you would be missing out on.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Raven, you sound depressed, and with reason. If you can't handle the thought of Al-anon, how about a trip to your GP and ask for a referral to a counsellor. They usually know who's good and who would suit you best.
Don't put it off. You sound like you're just hanging on at the moment, and when it blows you're going to need someone to talk to.
I'm a recovered A and I did it without a program but with some support from my doctor. He didn't do much, but it still helped. I always told myself that if I was in danger of relapsing I would go to AA, even though I'm a committed atheist. Al-anon is by definition full of people who've experienced what you're going through and I'm sure would have lots to share. Plus you don't have to do the 12 steps.
So I think it's important to get support of some kind even if it's not AA.
Don't put it off. You sound like you're just hanging on at the moment, and when it blows you're going to need someone to talk to.
I'm a recovered A and I did it without a program but with some support from my doctor. He didn't do much, but it still helped. I always told myself that if I was in danger of relapsing I would go to AA, even though I'm a committed atheist. Al-anon is by definition full of people who've experienced what you're going through and I'm sure would have lots to share. Plus you don't have to do the 12 steps.
So I think it's important to get support of some kind even if it's not AA.
ours de petit cerveau
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,630
Originally Posted by Gnin
Love this! I've become almost allergic to organized religion since the problem drinker is super religious.
What became a bother in Alenon's reading the 12 steps was the always masculine reference to God. I've become Agnostic because we just don't know, can't define what it is that is outside of us.
What became a bother in Alenon's reading the 12 steps was the always masculine reference to God. I've become Agnostic because we just don't know, can't define what it is that is outside of us.
Family & Friends - An Alternative to Al-Anon and Intervention
AA Agnostica has a whole load of Alternative 12 Steps if you're looking to stay in AlAnon:
http://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/up...2012-07-09.pdf
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