What is Gaslighting?
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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From WikiPedia:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception.
My ex used to do stuff like come up to me and say, "So, are you ready to go do [whatever]?" And I would be saying "What are you talking about?". "Don't you remember that you agreeed to do [whatever]?" " Uh, no". "Well, its just you. You are forgetful/stupid/being obstinate". Or moving my keys and putting them back later. Rearranging stuff, and insisting nothing had changed. Stuff like that.
It is essentially a technique used to make people doubt their own conclusions. The term comes from a movie called "Gaslight"---again from WikiPedia:
The plot concerns a husband who attempts to drive his wife to insanity by manipulating small elements of their environment, and insisting that she is mistaken or misremembering when she points out these changes. The title stems from the husband's subtle dimming of the house's gas lights, which she accurately notices and which the husband insists she's imagining.
In terms of an alcoholic relationship, it is like when you call them on a promise or an agreement that you came to, and they insist that you heard them wrong, or the discussion never happened. Or if you recount an incident of abuse or neglect, they insist it wasn't as bad as you say it was, or the details are different or you are just making crap up to give them a hard time. Stuff like that.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception.
My ex used to do stuff like come up to me and say, "So, are you ready to go do [whatever]?" And I would be saying "What are you talking about?". "Don't you remember that you agreeed to do [whatever]?" " Uh, no". "Well, its just you. You are forgetful/stupid/being obstinate". Or moving my keys and putting them back later. Rearranging stuff, and insisting nothing had changed. Stuff like that.
It is essentially a technique used to make people doubt their own conclusions. The term comes from a movie called "Gaslight"---again from WikiPedia:
The plot concerns a husband who attempts to drive his wife to insanity by manipulating small elements of their environment, and insisting that she is mistaken or misremembering when she points out these changes. The title stems from the husband's subtle dimming of the house's gas lights, which she accurately notices and which the husband insists she's imagining.
In terms of an alcoholic relationship, it is like when you call them on a promise or an agreement that you came to, and they insist that you heard them wrong, or the discussion never happened. Or if you recount an incident of abuse or neglect, they insist it wasn't as bad as you say it was, or the details are different or you are just making crap up to give them a hard time. Stuff like that.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
In terms of an alcoholic relationship, it is like when you call them on a promise or an agreement that you came to, and they insist that you heard them wrong, or the discussion never happened. Or if you recount an incident of abuse or neglect, they insist it wasn't as bad as you say it was, or the details are different or you are just making crap up to give them a hard time. Stuff like that.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alexandria Township, NJ
Posts: 275
Thanks for that DM
(Oh and BYW you werre supposed to change your name
)
My husband is recovery and doing well, we both are.
But then at times, during an arguement, say about money, he will say things to confuse the situation (me). And my head his spinning.
But sometimes I think he may not even be aware he's doing it, or just trying to end the fight. Or maybe it's just a habit and thinks that's the way it is supposed to be? Or maybe during a time when we are both heated things are just said?
Are these possible reasons?
And if so how to stop it? How do I respond?
(Oh and BYW you werre supposed to change your name
)My husband is recovery and doing well, we both are.
But then at times, during an arguement, say about money, he will say things to confuse the situation (me). And my head his spinning.
But sometimes I think he may not even be aware he's doing it, or just trying to end the fight. Or maybe it's just a habit and thinks that's the way it is supposed to be? Or maybe during a time when we are both heated things are just said?
Are these possible reasons?
And if so how to stop it? How do I respond?
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
But sometimes I think he may not even be aware he's doing it, or just trying to end the fight. Or maybe it's just a habit and thinks that's the way it is supposed to be? Or maybe during a time when we are both heated things are just said?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alexandria Township, NJ
Posts: 275
There is truth, and there are lies. Rather than try to figure out WHY my AH lies, it's enough that I know it's a lie. I plan accordingly.
Sometimes I just think it's stupidity? But since he's an alcoholic, I can't tell the difference, between a stupid comment or trying to screw with me.
Oh my God I'm now PARANOID!
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I found, in my case, that it was that black and white. And my trying to see the grey kept me in an abusive situation far longer than I should have stayed.
I look at it this way, if the lies are due to stupidity - I need to remove myself from the stupid. If the lies are deliberate - I need to remove myself from the abuse.
I look at it this way, if the lies are due to stupidity - I need to remove myself from the stupid. If the lies are deliberate - I need to remove myself from the abuse.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
My ex started to gaslight once he stopped drinking.
My ex before him was an addict and he never gaslighted.
I think it's not exclusive to addicts, I think it's a tactic used by people with a weak spirt and ego who cannot even fathom they are wrong.
My ex would yell at me, then I would ask why he's yelling and he would say he wasn't and that I was yelling.
We once apologized after a bad fight and he says I never did
He would tell me I was mistrusting because of my past and not because of what he did to me.
He said I need to stop my snooping (which I only started to do 2 yrs ago)and then I would asked why he snooped (he did it from year one) he said he never did. But yet he would check my pc often, came in my home when I wasn't hear and read my journal.
Did a few drive by's etc. And denied it, then admitted it, then denied it
Trying to have a disagreement with him was like running is a circle and when he knew he was wrong, he would say "You just hate when I disagree with you"
It's NEVER EVER their fault!
Are they evil, forgetful, intentially trying to make us crazy? I think none of the above, I think liars just have a deep DEEEPPPPPPPPPP seated fear of being found out so ego acts out at all costs.
It's nothing personal, they do it to everyone ;-)
It's a mental illness I would guess
My ex before him was an addict and he never gaslighted.
I think it's not exclusive to addicts, I think it's a tactic used by people with a weak spirt and ego who cannot even fathom they are wrong.
My ex would yell at me, then I would ask why he's yelling and he would say he wasn't and that I was yelling.
We once apologized after a bad fight and he says I never did
He would tell me I was mistrusting because of my past and not because of what he did to me.
He said I need to stop my snooping (which I only started to do 2 yrs ago)and then I would asked why he snooped (he did it from year one) he said he never did. But yet he would check my pc often, came in my home when I wasn't hear and read my journal.
Did a few drive by's etc. And denied it, then admitted it, then denied it
Trying to have a disagreement with him was like running is a circle and when he knew he was wrong, he would say "You just hate when I disagree with you"
It's NEVER EVER their fault!
Are they evil, forgetful, intentially trying to make us crazy? I think none of the above, I think liars just have a deep DEEEPPPPPPPPPP seated fear of being found out so ego acts out at all costs.
It's nothing personal, they do it to everyone ;-)
It's a mental illness I would guess
)
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, sometimes it's stupidity, and sometimes it's lies,
But SOMETIMES it's an inability to see clearly, an unwillingness to face uncomfortable truths. Don't we do that, ourselves, at times? Maybe not in the exact same context, but don't we make excuses and delude ourselves about the truth because it's uncomfortable to face?
I guess you have to ask yourself how important it is for him to acknowledge that you're right.
But SOMETIMES it's an inability to see clearly, an unwillingness to face uncomfortable truths. Don't we do that, ourselves, at times? Maybe not in the exact same context, but don't we make excuses and delude ourselves about the truth because it's uncomfortable to face?
I guess you have to ask yourself how important it is for him to acknowledge that you're right.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rooster Poot, Texas
Posts: 76
My mother pulls that type of head game all the time; just another little family game she liked to play to keep us on our toes.
It makes you feel completely crazy & frustrated & helpless. It's taken me years to not let it sideswipe me & knock me off my feet. She pulled it on me most recently in June, when I had almost 90 days sober. After begging me to get my brother's things out of his upstairs apartment (he was forced to move) & giving me a frantically detailed mental list of what she wanted out immediately & taken to him in the hospital & what could be taken to my house & stored for him, she then turned around less than 24 hours & accused me of stealing his things, demanded to know what I was doing in my brother's apartment when he was not there going through his things & taking them. Trying to make me feel like I was crazy, like I had imagined her telling me to move him out. That's gaslighting.
Before I was in recovery she wouldn't have succeeded in making me believe she hadn't told me to do all that~~ but she would have succeeded in making me feel helpless, enraged, frustrated, & tired of her manipulations. It'd have been worth an epic, epic drunk. A call in sick 3 days drunk. Even with almost 3 months under my belt it got to me~~ I had an internal argument on the beer aisle with myself before I removed myself from the store.
It's a despicable method of passive aggressive psychological manipulation & borders on sadistic, IMHO.
By the way, 4 months sober now. And she tried it again just last week. It's getting where I can just laugh & feel sorry for her.
It makes you feel completely crazy & frustrated & helpless. It's taken me years to not let it sideswipe me & knock me off my feet. She pulled it on me most recently in June, when I had almost 90 days sober. After begging me to get my brother's things out of his upstairs apartment (he was forced to move) & giving me a frantically detailed mental list of what she wanted out immediately & taken to him in the hospital & what could be taken to my house & stored for him, she then turned around less than 24 hours & accused me of stealing his things, demanded to know what I was doing in my brother's apartment when he was not there going through his things & taking them. Trying to make me feel like I was crazy, like I had imagined her telling me to move him out. That's gaslighting.
Before I was in recovery she wouldn't have succeeded in making me believe she hadn't told me to do all that~~ but she would have succeeded in making me feel helpless, enraged, frustrated, & tired of her manipulations. It'd have been worth an epic, epic drunk. A call in sick 3 days drunk. Even with almost 3 months under my belt it got to me~~ I had an internal argument on the beer aisle with myself before I removed myself from the store.
It's a despicable method of passive aggressive psychological manipulation & borders on sadistic, IMHO.
By the way, 4 months sober now. And she tried it again just last week. It's getting where I can just laugh & feel sorry for her.
capra laeviculus
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: German Village, OH
Posts: 3,427
WOW! Truly Wow! I didn't know this was a real thing. I thought it was just my ex that did it and I could never figure out what the heck was wrong with her! ....and after a while, I was seriously trying to figure out what was wrong with me!
The fact that there's even a name for it... All I can say is wow... This changes a lot for me.
I am SO happy you brought this up!
-Goat
The fact that there's even a name for it... All I can say is wow... This changes a lot for me.
I am SO happy you brought this up!
-Goat
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kansas for now
Posts: 100
To TenNinetySix: Your mother sounds like a malignant narcissist to me. Mine is. Didn't drive me to drink, but surely drove me to other self-destructive behaviors. No contact is my way of dealing. You have my deepest sympathy.
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