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Read posts from A forum - Mistake!!

Old 07-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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Read posts from A forum - Mistake!!

Curiousity and obviously way too much time on my hands..

I spent "some" time reading from the A forum. What a mistake!!

I was truly amazed at the absence of ummmm... what is it?!

I don't know... Family, or impact of behavior on loved ones, or Alcohism and family, wives whatever. Nothing.

We spend a oceans of time and energy talking, typing, feeling, crying, yelling about how "their" lives and addictions impact us, our children on and on.

And we get NOTHIN'!

Just a rant. No judgement. Well maybe a little. thank you
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:15 AM
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Hey there ChrrisT, and pleased to "meet" you

Originally Posted by ChrrisT View Post
.... I spent "some" time reading from the A forum. What a mistake!!....
well yeah, that's why we have _separate_ forums

Originally Posted by ChrrisT View Post
.... I was truly amazed at the absence of ummmm... what is it?!....
It's called "recovery".... There are actually a lot of alkies and addicts who _do_ have solid recovery, you just don't see them whining and complaining so they don't attract a lot of attention.

Originally Posted by ChrrisT View Post
.... We spend a oceans of time and energy talking, typing, feeling, crying, yelling about how "their" lives and addictions impact us, our children on and on. And we get NOTHIN'! ....
Exactly right. And you want to know what the alkies say after they sneak around _this_ forum cuz they're curious and have too much time on their hands? They scratch their heads and wonder why we spend so much time begging, crying, controlling, yelling and manipulating them. After all, if we _really_ didn't like living with them, we would just leave. Seems really simple to them.

Now, if you want to get some opinions from alkies who have turned their lives around, who have become respectable, productive people, then all you have to ask is right _here_ in _this_ forum. Because a _large_ number of the people who are here recovering from their "alanon-ism" are also recovering alkies or druggies.

Just ask right in _this_ forum, you'll be pleasantly surprised to see just how much serenity and compassion is found among alkies who have _real_ recovery.

Mike
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:40 AM
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My experience in reading other forums was not negative. Actually I applaud those folks over there trying to beat thier addictions. They are trying and for that a big thumbs up!

I identify with some of what they say. My addiction to addicts has made me behave in similar ways. I don't use substances to escape my own life but I sure as heck have used "them" in some of the same ways.

If reading over there bugs you don't do it - addicition is a very very selfish disease - addicts admit this freely when in recovery. Our needs will never come before thier addiction - period, ever.
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:17 PM
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THANK YOU MIKE!!
well yeah, that's why we have _separate_ forums
Yeah I deserved that.

It's called "recovery".... There are actually a lot of alkies and addicts who _do_ have solid recovery, you just don't see them whining and complaining so they don't attract a lot of attention.
I think I understand - different stages of recovery - new levels of understanding - right?

Now, if you want to get some opinions from alkies who have turned their lives around, who have become respectable, productive people,
Yes there are wonderful people here. In fact my RAH is now one of those respectable and productive people. Thank AA

They scratch their heads and wonder why we spend so much time begging, crying, controlling, yelling and manipulating them. After all, if we _really_ didn't like living with them, we would just leave. Seems really simple to them.
I think my frustrations comes from reading (and feeling) all the pain and sadness in these threads. And then to see (some of) the other side (the A forum side) Brings it back to life for me. Cause I know that was how my RAH felt and it hurt so bad then.

And there so much pain out there - too much! On both sides, I know that.

Thank you so much - And nice to "meet" you, Mike
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:33 PM
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LOL,

Hey, as a "double winner" I know that I am the center of the universe whether I am the alcoholic or the martyr living with one.

I'm happy to find this forum, as I no longer am living with alcoholics but my first taste of recovery came from Al-Anon, and I certainly have some E, S & H to share in this department!

I was lucky enough to attend the AA International in San Antonio a few weeks ago (many Al-Anon events there, as well), and I remember one of the speakers at one of the "Big Meetings" (in the Alamodome) talked about his wonderful wife and commented, "God bless all the Al-Anons. We get a lot of 'transfers' from them." (Big laugh all around.)

Years ago when I was newly separated from my second alcoholic husband, I attended a group that was neither AA nor Al-Anon (the group would not have been consistent with the Traditions), but we alternated with an AA speaker and readings and discussions one week, and Al-Anon the next. While there were a lot of couples that attended, there were also a lot of singles and it was a great eye-opener for everyone to see how the "other half" lives.

My first husband is now happily sober for over 30 years. The second one is, so far as I know, still drinking himself to death. I am grateful to both of them. When I finally was ready to admit defeat in my own battle with the bottle, both of their examples helped to get me into the rooms of AA.

I have a wonderful friendship with my first husband, who has been an invaluable support in my own journey. Al-Anon kept me from losing my sanity when my second husband went back to drinking after almost dying (week-long coma, liver/kidney failure, whole nine yards).

Keep comin' back!
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Old 07-24-2010, 01:44 PM
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I have personally found reading the posts in there to be enlightening rather than a negative experience. It helped me to better understand what my sister--an actively drinking alcoholic not in recovery--is going through. Through reading about their experiences I have learned that what my sister is doing is what alcoholics do. I find it much easier now to relate her behavior to the disease and consequently have been able to let go much more.

Yes we cry, scream, type, pull our hair out because of "their" behavior, but what I've learned is that, like my alcoholic sister, alcoholics will do what their disease dictates them to do, and until they realize something within and want to change, they won't. And their alcoholic traits will continue.


I've also been inspired by many who are "on the other side" on the forum--i.e. have decided to change and are actively seeking recovery. Their stories give me hope that my sister will one day find her way back.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:06 PM
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I have read the A forum too.

I ended up thinking that we codies and our A's are on opposite ends of the spectrum. We as codies want to solve everyone elses problems, our A's don't really want or know how to solve their or anyone elses problems. Their priorities are not others, just them, 24/7 it's all about them, until they work thru the process of recovery.

The bottom line to me is that we codies are just as sick as the A, there just is no balance.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:14 PM
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My name is DeVon, and I am a recovering alcoholic/addict/codependent.

My sobriety anniversary is August 5th of 1990. The start of my recovery in codependency began in July of 1999.

I have shared on this forum many times about how much I hurt the people who loved me while I was out there running rampant.

It wasn't until I was faced with a child who started her addictions at age 15 that I completely understood the hurt from the other side.

My best amends to my family have been, and continue to be, me continuing to walk on my path of recovery and do the next right thing. "I'm sorry," just doesn't cut it when you do the damage an active alcoholic/addict does.

I was also married to an active alcoholic/addict, and there are days I wish I didn't have so much life experience from all angles on this disease, but I do. It is what it is.

Whether it's sitting in a meeting of my home group, working with a newcomer face-to-face, or coming here to SR, I share my experience, strength, and hope because that's what others did for me.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:33 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Leise View Post
I know exactly what you mean ChrrisT.... I did the same and was shocked at what I thought was rampant selfishness.

That being said, we normies can never understand what it is like to be in the grips of an addiction like alcoholism. Can you imagine trying to figure out how much or what you can drink in order to not kill yourself completely and yet still keep drinking? I know I can't. Thank God for that!

Our addictions are very real (codieism) but they are not compulsory. We can change our reactions to the chaos in our lives. But asking an alcoholic to not drink (if you love me) is like asking someone with pneumonia not to cough, don't you think? (Thanks to MB for that analogy). It's such a cruel disease. Makes one think they need to drink to keep from dying but it's that very thing which is killing them.

I guess I've learned that A's have to be selfish, their recovery has to come first. And the love affair with the bottle is far stronger than any bonds with friends and family.

It's such a shocker for a codie like myself to realize I was never important at all to my A, because he was everything to me. (hello! codie alert!) The A's trying to get help on this forum really made that point clear to me, you certainly don't see them posting about how their GF, W, H or BF left because they can't deal with the drinking. They have other concerns, like how to live another day.

The RA's do... but even they refuse to dwell in the past or have regrets. IMO.

I have learned a lesson or two from the RA's on this site... don't dwell, have no regrets, but don't ever forget.

I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know, but it felt good to get if off my chest. Thanks...

Leise
Hi Leise. I think it's much harder for a codie to recover than it is for an alcoholic.

In years gone by, I worked in a wonderful IOP for addictions. The addicts received 20 hours per week of "treatment" and their family members (when willing) got 12 hours a week. Time after time I heard the codependent spouse complain thusly: "OK...he gets to be abstinent from alcohol and drugs. That's pretty clear cut. What do I get to abstain from?"

Everyone kind of said, "um, er, ah, duh...etc." Until we found the answer: codies get to abstain from adrenaline, which is brought on by what we called "loaded feelings"....rage, self-pity, hopelessness and mainly.....CRISIS AND CHAOS. Codies are the crisis managers in our world...nurses, cops, firefighters, first responders, etc. etc. , spouses of crazy people like alcoholics. They are hooked on that adrenaline rush, and who better to provide it in a relationship than a wacked out addict or alcoholic, who's liable to be dead, in the hospital or in jail if he's an hour late coming home from work? Ah...the rush of panic. The power of adrenaline. Here's a drug so powerful it can enable a 90 pound woman to lift an automobile off of her child! Now THAT is a drug. It is also, like alcohol, very destructive both physically and psychologically. After all, it was "designed" in the times when "fight or flight" meant not being eaten by wild beasts. Oh...and has anyone noticed the depression after an adrenaline episode??? My, my. These days it's probably treated as a bipolar disorder<G>.

I think that the blessing of alanon is that it teaches people some calm and serenity, some acceptance. No need to go off the deep end every time he lies about drinking. The answer to the question of why a person would remain in relationship with an alcohoic is not "love," but dependency. I think it's really a simple chemical dependency on adrenaline. That may seem too simplistic, but when we began working with family members as adrenaline addicts, they started getting some relief. I guess the proof of the pudding's in the eating?

It certainly addresses the insanity of serial relationships with addicts and alcoholics.

blessings
zenbear
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:33 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
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There is truly wisdom in this thread. Thank you ChrrrisT for starting it! In particular...

Leise's post including; the love affair with the bottle is far stronger than any bonds with friends and family.

And ZBear's fascinating post about adrenaline. Wow - that was an AHA moment for me.

Thanks all for your wisdom on this subject!
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:48 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
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Hi Chriss: I spent a ton of time reading in the alcoholics forum when I first got here. I found it to be an incredible help because I needed to open my eyes to the truth. I credit a lot of the stories I read with helping me understand I could help or fix no one but myself. I also credit it with helping me understand that another human being was not worth my own life. I gave until I was skin and bones, literally, with my xabf. That is no way to live.

Take your time with it. There is a benefit. Hugs!
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:55 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
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Alkie and Codie... Same disease just presents differently; I Think when we view it through the lens of the Disease Model it really is a social disease.

RAH= Raging alcoholic husband?
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Old 07-24-2010, 07:03 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted View Post
RAH= Raging alcoholic husband?
Recovering alcoholic husband.
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Old 07-25-2010, 03:04 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
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I'm always impressed at how they keep the focus on themselves & their recovery. I think we could take a leaf out of their book ...
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:41 AM
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What an amazing thread filled with tons of insight. Thank you all for sharing.

As a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you all that I do come to this board to offer input when there are questions about alcoholism or when behaviors are marked as alcoholic when they are just bad personality traits.

I have come here and learned tons from the other side on how my alcoholic actions hurt those around me even though I never drove drunk, got arrested, fired....blah blah. I did see how just watching someone (ME) destroy my life for my family/friends/colleagues was devastating.

What I will say is that there are various forms of recovery aside from AA but it is on the alcoholic to admit and understand what they are and seek help. Recovery is about lifestyle change and positive actions. Beating the same old path leads right back to the same thing.

I know for myself and for many others....we drank for depression, to cope, to forget the pain in our lives. I personally blamed many for who I became and it was only once I got off the sauce did I see that I caused my own pain by allowing lifes ups and downs to take me under. I allowed myself to stay in an abusive relationship with my EH. Was he a POS? YES. Did he cause me to drink? NO. That was on me and man what a hellish nightmare I started and I am grateful everyday that I found SR, got counseling for my issues and have a wonderful amazing husband who supports me and believes in me.

The key to my recovery is that no matter what happens in life.....it is no excuse to drink. I am a better person when I am sober and I am accountable for my actions.

This is why much of what you see maybe in the A threads is focused on the alcoholic. Because so much time has been spent blaming others for drinking and using it as an excuse to booze.

Only the alcoholic can get sober and reach for support. This is why we don't spend tooo much time dwelling on others around us since we hold the key to starting anew.

I enjoy coming here and I know that I am continously learning more and more about this thing called alcoholism.

Stay strong friends and as I always say.....support but always know YOU are not responsible for the alcoholic. Only they can reach out and get sober.

God Bless.
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Old 07-25-2010, 07:03 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
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Big AA meeting in San Antonio

I was traveling to San Antonio during the week of the big AA meeting and happened to be sitting next to one of the speakers. What luck!
We talked the entire flight about her history and her success in sobriety.

As the plane began decending, I told her that I was still struggling with understanding the issue of alcoholism. She highly recommended that I read "Drinking, a love story" by Caroline Knapp. I did and it has helped me tremendously! I can never thank her enough for opening my eyes to the mindset of an alcoholic.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:36 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
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So much great information. So much passion.

Is it too early in our relationship to say "I love you all" :day6

RAH= Raging alcoholic husband?
How about FRBNRSSAAAH

Formerly Raging But Now Recovering Sometimes Still An A**hole Alcoholic Husband

Can someone explain Codie to me please? No clue

Seriously though...

Years ago I was so naive - he's just a partyer, gets carried away, when we get married he'll stop, when this, when that blah blah blah

Amazing though through HIS disease - I have learned so much about myself and my own strengths and character defects.

We are learning together how to cope, and sometimes we have to conscientiously make an effort to be OK today. Sometimes as a couple and sometime separately.

Whether here (family and friends)or "on the other side" everyone is searching for basically the same things. PEACE HAPPINESS LOVE...

In every thread people pour out their hearts and souls to strangers, hoping to heal themselves and/or help others, but at risk of enduring more pain.

Respect - the teachers - YOU out there. Read without judgment, keep an open mind and always be kind.

That is my lesson for the day.

Life (with an A) can be so isolating, even now.

It's good not to be alone!!

Thank you ALL
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:02 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
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Is it too early in our relationship to say "I love you all" :day6
Nope, I will take all the love I can get! Thank you ChrissT.
I am a recovering alcoholic, but I gotta say, this recovery from codependency is gonna be tough. My daughter, ooooh, boy, gotta detach. she is going to a treatment program and I have to work my Al-Anon like I want her to work her AA program.

Codie is short for codependent, the one attached to the addicted one.

wow, zenbear, loved that post and spot on about the adrenaline rush, cant get drunk anymore, but still riding the roller coaster!!!
damn.

Beth
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:02 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
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its a HONEST PROGRAM, if they can do it( AA, NA etc) I am sure we can work our program too...I am not here for *a pat on the back*, because I am too doing MY PART.
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:32 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
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Oh Wicked
I have been reading your posts - what heartbreak! I was telling my daughter about it this morning, she's 12. I hope you don't mind.

It doesn't make it any easier, but YOU know what you have to do.
But really, it's hard not to say sometimes - WHEN THE HELL WILL IT END!!

I know for myself and for many others....we drank for depression, to cope, to forget the pain in our lives. I personally blamed many for who I became and it was only once I got off the sauce did I see that I caused my own pain by allowing lifes ups and downs to take me under. I allowed myself to stay in an abusive relationship with my EH. Was he a POS? YES. Did he cause me to drink? NO. That was on me and man what a hellish nightmare I started and I am grateful everyday that I found SR, got counseling for my issues and have a wonderful amazing husband who supports me and believes in me.
The last part about your husband Kmber- I think that is it! whether we are called "codies" (thank you) or "enabliers" or the smucks that take all their crap

As spouses or other loved ones I think we just want to hear
"thank you for your love and for standing by me through this" and have them REALLY mean it.
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