Learn2Live

Aw thanks Coffee.
Jadmack, that post just blew my mind.
Gosh Coyote, thanks for the share.
I am going to look at that book on Amazon. I am still missing something here...

Chino

He said "yes and it does hurt." That was after I quickly went through family history again, and said I knew my daughter would have to work through it on her own, just like I did, and that I was powerless and it hurt like hell.

I forgave my mom a while back and accept her as she is. I found compassion for her instead of anger, when I saw I was really no different though I tried to be. With the help of therapy, I saw the entire family dynamic and knew it was up to me to heal myself. I accepted that, where before I intellectually understood it. It hurt like hell yesterday because I admitted I unknowingly and unintentionally perpetuated that dynamic, and I know my RAD has a long road in front of her. I am powerless.

I was able to forgive myself yesterday because that is who I was, not who I am now. I've made a tremendous effort these last three years to heal myself, and the rest is out of my hands. All I can do is continue my recovery work and continue to love myself so I'm able to love others.

Funny side note.... a week or so ago my daughter said I have the voice of an angel. I've come a lot further than I've given myself credit

coyote21

I've become aware of my voice/tone when I talk to LMC (Little Miss Coyote), I keep back sliding, I know it matters and I can do better. Practice, practice, practice.

The three "A's" come to mind, Awareness, Acceptance, Action. Maybe I need to Accept that my tone can be/has been damaging, try and forgive myself, and keep trying to do better.

Really good to hear that you've been able to improve you voice/tone to an "angel like" quality. Something to shoot for, surely there are "guy" angels? I wonder what one would sound like? Waylon Jennings comes to mind.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

wicked

Will Tonto be there? The Lone Ranger's faithful companion?
My mother used to love an old joke about Tonto and the Lone Ranger.
they are outside the hideout of a bunch of bad me.
LR says, Okay tonto, we're going in there, guns blazing and get these guys.
tonto says "yes kemosabe (sp)
Lr says, "you go first, then i will follow"
Tonto says "what's this "we" white man?"
Oh, i know i got it wrong but my mother would use that last line when we had to do something new or scary.


so, i am asking you coyote, we are gonna go in there, look at this abandonment thing and work it all out.
now, ya with me?
or
"what's this "we" woman?"

:rotfxko

Chino

My tone was, and still can be if I allow it, a reflection of the disconnect from my emotions. My rigid boundaries were the equivalent of a poker face. Great attribute in a card game but not healthy for me otherwise.

Learn2Live

Maybe, Coyote, I will give you my Dad's phone number and you can play telephone russian roulette like I do, so that you can hear what a man angel sounds like. Most times, you get Drunk Dad. Some times, you get Nasty, Horrible, Gnashing-Teeth, Drunk Dad. But every once in a while, you get Angel Dad. It is better than any chocolate dessert you have ever had in your life. Even better than seven Warm Melting Chocolate Cakes on a Carnival cruise. It is simply amazing. He is the nicest guy in the world, your best friend, just pleasant and wonderful all rolled up into one deep-voiced man. Once, a couple years ago, he got sober for TWO MONTHS. I called him EVERY day the entire time.

OK, are these tears from abandonment? OK? Is this what I needed? Is this what you guys have been talking about? Am I supposed to go to therapy for this? Because now I am thinking OK, yeah, Coyote, you were right when you said Is the abandonment from when he was sober 5 years when I was a kid and then became perpetually drunk for the rest of my life?

coyote21

My Mom was funny growing up, I hope I picked that up and am passing it on to LMC, I think I am.

She used to say this one,

"And Tonto, not knowing that the Lone Ranger had disguised himself as a door, shot off his knob" Bwahahahahahahah!


Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

coyote21

I get it, whenever I hear my own voice on a recording it's kind of flat/monotone, even when I'm enthusiastic about something, but if I'm irritated, pretty sure that comes across.

I just got a new cell and was trying to record a greeting, sounded horrible, finally gave up.

It's for my business and I could really use some tips to make it "sound/sell" better. You know, some "enthusiasm". Would help a lot in my personal life with LMC and others as well. Any ideas?

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

coyote21

I would have to say, oh yeah! Every time you call and get drunk dad, he's abandoning you all over again. IMHO.

I don't know about the rest of you, but wicked and me are getting the damned book.

Heck I know I already feel better, knowing WHAT'S wrong and that there is help, and it's on the way. Hi ho Silver.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

wicked

Oh yes, L2L, this is it exactly. Abandonment. Your "dad" is not there, choosing something over you, and a relationship with his lovely daughter.

Strangely enough, I am feeling pretty damn good about this too. Yep, pretty good.

and on chino and coyote's monotone or angel voice. I have the same exact problem. when i heard my recording for a cell phone, i had to have my son do it, i sounded so damned depressed (and I wasnt at the time).
my children have all been keenly attuned to the expression on my face, i could probably play poker pretty well myself, but not with my kids.
they actually say "there's that look, youre mad about something"
try to deny it. nope, not getting by them.
my son, who is in an aviation trade school right now can tell over the phone if something is wrong.
sigh.......
yes, many years of telling, or showing them, that i needed quiet damn it!
oh yuck. dammit. yeah, i needed to not hear my own children. good god.

Learn2Live

Well $hit here we go again. I hate losing control over my feelings but I was reading the "Look Inside!" of the book on Amazon and the author was saying how you can have these wounds from old, un-resolved abandonment issues, that you carry around with you and which create these other emotional issues in your everyday life. Ugh.

I just ordered the damn book too. Less than 4 bucks plus shipping. Should we start a book thread like Alizerin did with Codependent No More? Anybody interested since we're all apparently buying it now? We can call it The Abandonment Book Club HAHAHAHA (Whatever happened to Alizerin anyway?)

Yup, me too. I have been told by friends and family to change my VM greeting at work. I like my home VM, there's a little man already in there.

HealingWillCome

L2L, reading your post broke my heart. Yep, that's abandonment, definitely. Yessir. Killer, heartbreaking stuff.

Coyote and Beth, you sound like I did -- it just felt good to KNOW WHAT WAS WRONG! No matter how ugly and painful the wound is, you can't fix it until you know that it's there. And to find out that someone else GETS IT. Well, that was huge for me.

Oh, and L2L, I'm all for a book club. I have found that I need a support group for this as much as I do anything! There just isn't one like it where I live. I have two close friends who can relate in their own ways, and they help a lot! Lots of time spent on the phone with those two girls!

BTW, Coyote, I like what you said about the 3 A's: Awareness, Acceptance, and Action. Sums it up really well.

Learn2Live

I feel like I am too stupid to know when there is something like this that is BLARINGLY wrong, obvious to everyone else, and I cannot even identify there is something wrong or something that needs addressed. This happened last week with me, something that is, according to some people I have talked to about it, a rather tragic thing, and I am apparently NUMB to it and don't recognize that I might need help dealing with it. This abandonment thing still hasn't sunk in, though those tears helped some and Coyote and you guys saying "Yup, this is significant." Seriously, something is MISSING inside of me. WTH? Maybe this is leftover ACOA $hit. Sorry I am cussing but ... IDK why I am cussing. But I get confused too, maybe it is an ADHD thing, a cognitive limitation and THAT is why I do not pick up on these traumas and just go through life ignoring whatever traumas I have experienced? Good Lord.

I shrug off as NOTHING things such as being molested my entire childhood all the way up to age 19, being raped at age 14 or 15, witnessing this girl die when I was in 7th grade, my BF murdering his parents when I was 16, I could go on but I won't. I mean, what would talking about it do anyway? Tell me, does it sound like I should DO something about all this? Talk to a therapist or something? Because I don't think about this stuff at all on a regular basis but I am beginning to think, with our conversations about monotone voicemail greetings and stuff that maybe I have some problem that I can fix about me that would make my life easier??? Maybe this is something to do with PTSD.

HWC, is "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Turn the End of a Relationship into the Beginning of a New Life" the same book as you were talking about that has a workbook too?

coyote21

Book club, book club, damn book club!

Man I already wrote down the title and author to take to my meeting tonight, about half my home group could probably use a read. After the meeting of course.

Wouldn't want to dilute Alanon any. Ha! Already got into trouble bringing in stuff from here. It's o.k., I understand. Funny, I wouldn't have before Alanon.


Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Learn2Live

I think we have our book club name:
Thanks for the laugh.

HealingWillCome

Huge hugs to you, L2L,. Your life experiences are nothing short of...well...wow. Do you, or have you, not ever talked to anyone professional about any of those things? I would vote for a big yes, you should talk to someone.

My trauma with AF is incredibly minor compared to your story...but I had it buried away, thinking it was nothing, not affecting my life...until I realized it was the entire reason I have chosen the paths I have with men.

Yes, the book you named is the same one I have (The Journey From Abandonment to Healing). It does not have a workbook with it, but it has exercises at the end of each chapter.

The workbook is out-of-print and is ridiculously expensive (it's called The Journey From Heartbreak to Connection.) I wish it weren't because the reviews make it sound very good, but I think you can pay $30 to download it from the abandonment.net web site. I may still do that.

Chino

It helped me move past numb (denial) and reconnect with myself. Every emotionally devastating thing that happened in my life, piled on top of the previous one and influenced my every move, thought. I didn't know that's what was happening until I hit a place like you are right now.

I realized previous events were controlling me and that meant I was allowing them to define my very existence. THAT really pissed me off.

Learn2Live

Thanks HWC. No, I have never talked to anyone about any of these things.

wicked

HWC, I feel this way too, and, I just read about it in The Intimacy Struggle by Janet G. Woititz. There is something in there about abandonment, and something about thinking you no longer exist when your parent does not acknowledge you.
Wow, when I read that, I got dizzy and had to put the book down.
It is why I start relationships as I am, but start to change and drop every single boundary I ever worked on to become invisible again. Wow, oh Wow.

and please L2L, yes, you need help with PTSD. I am no doctor, but living with an alcoholic can make one gunshy for sure (think eggshells, and the drive for perfection).
Your traumas should be brought out so you can get distance from them. You won't forget, but you can heal and move on. I am deeply sorry for the child and woman in you who suffers with this, but you have the strength and the will to get through it.

Beth


PS

Yes, a book club.
and definitely named "The Damned Book Club"

Learn2Live

Whoa.

Where am I right now? How do I know I am there? What kind of place was it for you?

like aliens living under our skin, directing our every move