What kind of boundaries do you have?
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Thanks Chino. For some reason your share reminded me of my XSIL, who has VERY VERY rigid boundaries. She has always been an unpredictably NASTY person--we never knew when it would hit. Her father died when she was about 10 years old. She smoked pot every day until she got pregnant. She had a child, but her boundaries remain rigid even with the child. She stopped smoking pot but still drinks every day. She would be very difficult to live with. I still like her though; her ways no longer hurt my feelings.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
My boundaries with my daughters are healthy. And with every other kind of primary relationship I have...except men.
My boundaries collapse when I let myself fall for someone like my AF who left my mom and 4 children for another woman. The two men I have loved the most in my life (XAH and XABF) pursued me like crazy. Made me think I was special and a princess like my dad never did. My subconscious said "Latch on! You can be healed from your abandonment wounds by your dad!" However, they were both addicts and non-committers. They both suffer from their own abandonment. Even though I left my XABF, I still feel abandoned because he could never fully commit to me. The drugs/alcohol/flirting with other women were powerful even though he still swears he is trying/wants to give them up.
My problem when I have good, really good, amazing, decent, kind, loving real men in my life is that my boundaries then become rigid. I push them away. If you read what I posted about abandonoholics, I do exactly what it says there. I become afraid of other's emotional expectations of me. I shut down, I lose my chemistry with that person, I decide they "are not the one". I push them away and I break up with them.
I'm working through it, it can be done!!!! I am determined to get there and find the happiness that I know is out there!
My boundaries collapse when I let myself fall for someone like my AF who left my mom and 4 children for another woman. The two men I have loved the most in my life (XAH and XABF) pursued me like crazy. Made me think I was special and a princess like my dad never did. My subconscious said "Latch on! You can be healed from your abandonment wounds by your dad!" However, they were both addicts and non-committers. They both suffer from their own abandonment. Even though I left my XABF, I still feel abandoned because he could never fully commit to me. The drugs/alcohol/flirting with other women were powerful even though he still swears he is trying/wants to give them up.
My problem when I have good, really good, amazing, decent, kind, loving real men in my life is that my boundaries then become rigid. I push them away. If you read what I posted about abandonoholics, I do exactly what it says there. I become afraid of other's emotional expectations of me. I shut down, I lose my chemistry with that person, I decide they "are not the one". I push them away and I break up with them.
I'm working through it, it can be done!!!! I am determined to get there and find the happiness that I know is out there!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
My husband videotaped one of our Christmas mornings when our now adult children where 2 and 4 years old. I was truly horrified when I saw it afterward because my tone did not reflect the joy I felt.
My daughter told me about a year ago that my tone scared and hurt her sometimes. I don't doubt her for a minute because it scared me too. On the other hand, my son ignored it and paid attention to the hugs, smiles, and laughter instead.
My gruff or sharp tone was not in tune with my emotions because I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. It's so easy to see now how much pain I was in. I'm squeaking out a few tears right now thinking about it, and the all pain it continued to cause.
My daughter told me about a year ago that my tone scared and hurt her sometimes. I don't doubt her for a minute because it scared me too. On the other hand, my son ignored it and paid attention to the hugs, smiles, and laughter instead.
My gruff or sharp tone was not in tune with my emotions because I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. It's so easy to see now how much pain I was in. I'm squeaking out a few tears right now thinking about it, and the all pain it continued to cause.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Coffee, the book I bought is The Journey from Abandonment to Healing (can be purchased cheap online.) Unfortunately, a later-published workbook, which sounds very good, is no longer in print and that's why it is for sale at RIDICULOUS prices online.
I haven't purchased the workbook, but you can get it at the web site in downloadable version ($30 I think). I am thinking about doing so, but $30 still seems like a lot to me. Maybe not when you think about the cost of counseling/therapy though, right? It sounds like an excellent workbook.
I would at least try the other book first. It took me a long time to digest all of it. I had to work through each chapter and its exercise before I could move on to the next. There were a couple of weeks in between some chapters before I was ready to keep moving. You might be entirely different.
I also ordered her short story, Black Swan, I think it's called. It is a story about a little girl who moves from abandonment to healing. It was almost excruciating for me to read. It also has exercises in it. I didn't use them, but they may be helpful to you.
The author has decades of experience in treating abandonment patients, and also experienced her own abandonment (as a child and as a woman) so she really gets it.
I have been thinking about you since your post yesterday. Hugs and prayers to you!!!
I haven't purchased the workbook, but you can get it at the web site in downloadable version ($30 I think). I am thinking about doing so, but $30 still seems like a lot to me. Maybe not when you think about the cost of counseling/therapy though, right? It sounds like an excellent workbook.
I would at least try the other book first. It took me a long time to digest all of it. I had to work through each chapter and its exercise before I could move on to the next. There were a couple of weeks in between some chapters before I was ready to keep moving. You might be entirely different.
I also ordered her short story, Black Swan, I think it's called. It is a story about a little girl who moves from abandonment to healing. It was almost excruciating for me to read. It also has exercises in it. I didn't use them, but they may be helpful to you.
The author has decades of experience in treating abandonment patients, and also experienced her own abandonment (as a child and as a woman) so she really gets it.
I have been thinking about you since your post yesterday. Hugs and prayers to you!!!
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
It is good that you can see yourself Chino, even if it makes you upset. Please don't let yourself feel guilt over it.
Jeez, I wonder how I picked up on your similarity to my XSIL? She is that way too (gruff and sharp). I think I have ESP LOL :rotfxko I crack myself up.
I can see through her tough exterior though. She has ALWAYS been consistent with the regular, every day stuff. Ever since I was a teenager, she always sent me b-day and christmas cards, no fail. She has always eaten the same foods (I could tell you EXACTLY what is in her refrigerator right now), has worked for the same company for decades (thank God she has never gotten laid off), and lives a simple life. She has many, many good points that override any of the gruffness. I know you do too.
Jeez, I wonder how I picked up on your similarity to my XSIL? She is that way too (gruff and sharp). I think I have ESP LOL :rotfxko I crack myself up.
I can see through her tough exterior though. She has ALWAYS been consistent with the regular, every day stuff. Ever since I was a teenager, she always sent me b-day and christmas cards, no fail. She has always eaten the same foods (I could tell you EXACTLY what is in her refrigerator right now), has worked for the same company for decades (thank God she has never gotten laid off), and lives a simple life. She has many, many good points that override any of the gruffness. I know you do too.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
T
Can I ask folks who have children, if you have had rigid boundaries, did having a child help to make them less rigid?
Can I ask folks who have children, if you have had rigid boundaries, did having a child help to make them less rigid?
I am going to be brutally honest with SR, and myself - which is why it has taken me so long to respond. I love my children with all my heart, there is no doubt about that. I struggle with the rigid boundaries in all my relationships, including parent/child. The fact that they are my children does not make it any easier for me to identify my feelings for example. I desire closeness with them more then others but don't exactly know how to behave to achieve that. I don't know *if* I've achieved it. I'm not sure what it looks like. I can't figure out how it feels. I want them to feel it.
This question alone will drive me back into counseling because I simply can not answer it, and that bothers me.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by CircleInTheSea
My mom divorced my AF when I was 5 and we haven't seen/heard from him since I was 10. I thought I was over it a long time ago since my life was not lacking without him.
All my issues were there. The wound had never healed, it was just stitched over and left to fester. Even after my divorce from XAH 11 years ago, I couldn't see that it was related to that wound. Now...at age 46...I get it. Wow.
Even though my three younger sisters all have healthy marriages, they admittedly suffer from trust issues.
I certainly don't blame anyone. Not my mom, she couldn't have known I would suffer later because she really did bring a good man into our lives and raised well and with a lot of love. I don't even blame my AF. We have talked about how he was raised, and he has seen what he has done to his family. We talk, but I don't really love or respect him or miss him. It just is what it is, and I have actually forgiven him. I just gotta keep working on me!
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Aw Thumper, I'm sorry if I brought something painful out for you. Thank you so much for your honesty and openness in your share. The reason I asked the question is because I have been going through some serious debates with myself very recently about whether or not I want to have children. I never wanted to have children, then I wanted to, now I think I don't want to. I feel like I need to decide this, once and for all, now. And my boundary and apparent abandonment issues need to be considered, IMO. So thank you for your share. I truly appreciate it.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by Thumper
This has been a hard question for me. I haven't been ignoring it, I've been thinking about it. I have very rigid boundaries. I think I came into my relationship with rigid boundaries, experienced some collapse in many areas, and am back to very rigid right now, with awareness and striving towards healthy.
I am going to be brutally honest with SR, and myself - which is why it has taken me so long to respond. I love my children with all my heart, there is no doubt about that. I struggle with the rigid boundaries in all my relationships, including parent/child. The fact that they are my children does not make it any easier for me to identify my feelings for example. I desire closeness with them more then others but don't exactly know how to behave to achieve that. I don't know *if* I've achieved it. I'm not sure what it looks like. I can't figure out how it feels. I want them to feel it.
This question alone will drive me back into counseling because I simply can not answer it, and that bothers me.
I am going to be brutally honest with SR, and myself - which is why it has taken me so long to respond. I love my children with all my heart, there is no doubt about that. I struggle with the rigid boundaries in all my relationships, including parent/child. The fact that they are my children does not make it any easier for me to identify my feelings for example. I desire closeness with them more then others but don't exactly know how to behave to achieve that. I don't know *if* I've achieved it. I'm not sure what it looks like. I can't figure out how it feels. I want them to feel it.
This question alone will drive me back into counseling because I simply can not answer it, and that bothers me.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I didn't read your post before I hit send on my last one. My kids tell me not to be mad, or ask me if I'm mad. I'm not. They take anything that isn't over the top positive to be mad. I know they are either feeling very insecure (maybe even frightened?), or I'm just as you describe below, or both. This is why I think that my rigid boundaries are there and present in my parent/child relationships even if I don't want it to be 
I want to fix that so badly.
I want to fix that so badly.
Originally Posted by Chino
My husband videotaped one of our Christmas mornings when our now adult children where 2 and 4 years old. I was truly horrified when I saw it afterward because my tone did not reflect the joy I felt.
My daughter told me about a year ago that my tone scared and hurt her sometimes. I don't doubt her for a minute because it scared me too. On the other hand, my son ignored it and paid attention to the hugs, smiles, and laughter instead.
My gruff or sharp tone was not in tune with my emotions because I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. It's so easy to see now how much pain I was in. I'm squeaking out a few tears right now thinking about it, and the all pain it continued to cause.
My daughter told me about a year ago that my tone scared and hurt her sometimes. I don't doubt her for a minute because it scared me too. On the other hand, my son ignored it and paid attention to the hugs, smiles, and laughter instead.
My gruff or sharp tone was not in tune with my emotions because I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. It's so easy to see now how much pain I was in. I'm squeaking out a few tears right now thinking about it, and the all pain it continued to cause.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by Learn2Live
Aw Thumper, I'm sorry if I brought something painful out for you. Thank you so much for your honesty and openness in your share. The reason I asked the question is because I have been going through some serious debates with myself very recently about whether or not I want to have children. I never wanted to have children, then I wanted to, now I think I don't want to. I feel like I need to decide this, once and for all, now. And my boundary and apparent abandonment issues need to be considered, IMO. So thank you for your share. I truly appreciate it.
I have no doubt you would be a wonderful mother. Look at all the work you've done for yourself and are still doing. Any child you have would be the beneficiary of all that hard work and love. You're amazing! Hugs and prayers to you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
(((L2L))) thank you. I felt some guilt and might again, but I know I'm going to get better as each tear leaves my body. It hurts like hell when I feel the pain, but I'm letting it out right away and feel so much better afterward. I feel like I just dropped a 25lb backpack, the relief was instant.
(((Thumper))) I have therapy in two hours and yep, this is today's subject.
(((Thumper))) I have therapy in two hours and yep, this is today's subject.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
Since Healing said it, I'm gonna chime in as well.
Learn,
This is in no way meant to sway or convince you, but I think you would be an excellent mother as well, and this is why:
You are conscientious
You have the desire to be fair, use consistent discipline, be loving, and all those other great qualities.
You are aware
You are debating the decision, and wish to choose which side you'll end up on for the right reasons
I think I was a pretty good mother, yet I am admittedly a bit messed up. I think that if you identify the tools you wish to provide your children, that's almost half the battle. The other (bigger) half, and the really important one, is to allow them to be themselves, keep them safe, and love them unconditionally. I really believe that.
M. Scott Peck said that those people that seek psychotherapy, and healing are often the ones who are doing well, because they acknowledge their need for help, and are doing something about it. They are leaps and bounds ahead of some others who can't admit their need. And they are the courageous ones.
I think this puts us in a good position to positively affect young, developing people. We can shine our light on them, and they in turn can shine as well.
Learn,
This is in no way meant to sway or convince you, but I think you would be an excellent mother as well, and this is why:
You are conscientious
You have the desire to be fair, use consistent discipline, be loving, and all those other great qualities.
You are aware
You are debating the decision, and wish to choose which side you'll end up on for the right reasons
I think I was a pretty good mother, yet I am admittedly a bit messed up. I think that if you identify the tools you wish to provide your children, that's almost half the battle. The other (bigger) half, and the really important one, is to allow them to be themselves, keep them safe, and love them unconditionally. I really believe that.
M. Scott Peck said that those people that seek psychotherapy, and healing are often the ones who are doing well, because they acknowledge their need for help, and are doing something about it. They are leaps and bounds ahead of some others who can't admit their need. And they are the courageous ones.
I think this puts us in a good position to positively affect young, developing people. We can shine our light on them, and they in turn can shine as well.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
I remember as a child, how my sister would play with her doll for hours and I would be out with the kids from next door, making roads for trucks, or playing cricket...not dolls.
Mum would shake her head sadly and say, "I have tried to make a lady of J, but I fear it is hopeless." She and her friends would look at sister with her dolls, and it was all smiles and "what a real mother she will be," and "well, W is certainly going to be a wonderful mum".
I had children and used to cuddle, and kiss them and love them to bits, as I do with my grand kids. We are all close, and there are hugs aplenty between us.
Sister also has children, who spend little time with her. She has always had trouble showing affection and tho divorced over 20 years, is still bitter and angry at her ex, who did everything to make life easier for her.
When her only daughter got married, sis really tried to get out of going, finally went and looked miserable the whole time. I feel so sad for her but could also strangle her at times. I guess the wine she gulps down is to make socialising easier, but then she goes over the top and either falls about or becomes totally maudlin and people flee from her, including the kids.
I used to joke about one of us being either a changling or had mum been naughty, as we have always been so opposite in looks and in every way possible.
After her last suicide attempt that joke has worn very thin.
God bless
Mum would shake her head sadly and say, "I have tried to make a lady of J, but I fear it is hopeless." She and her friends would look at sister with her dolls, and it was all smiles and "what a real mother she will be," and "well, W is certainly going to be a wonderful mum".
I had children and used to cuddle, and kiss them and love them to bits, as I do with my grand kids. We are all close, and there are hugs aplenty between us.
Sister also has children, who spend little time with her. She has always had trouble showing affection and tho divorced over 20 years, is still bitter and angry at her ex, who did everything to make life easier for her.
When her only daughter got married, sis really tried to get out of going, finally went and looked miserable the whole time. I feel so sad for her but could also strangle her at times. I guess the wine she gulps down is to make socialising easier, but then she goes over the top and either falls about or becomes totally maudlin and people flee from her, including the kids.
I used to joke about one of us being either a changling or had mum been naughty, as we have always been so opposite in looks and in every way possible.
After her last suicide attempt that joke has worn very thin.
God bless
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by HealingWillCome
My boundaries with my daughters are healthy. And with every other kind of primary relationship I have...except men.
My boundaries collapse when I let myself fall for someone like my AF who left my mom and 4 children for another woman. The two men I have loved the most in my life (XAH and XABF) pursued me like crazy. Made me think I was special and a princess like my dad never did. My subconscious said "Latch on! You can be healed from your abandonment wounds by your dad!" However, they were both addicts and non-committers. They both suffer from their own abandonment. Even though I left my XABF, I still feel abandoned because he could never fully commit to me. The drugs/alcohol/flirting with other women were powerful even though he still swears he is trying/wants to give them up.
My problem when I have good, really good, amazing, decent, kind, loving real men in my life is that my boundaries then become rigid. I push them away. If you read what I posted about abandonoholics, I do exactly what it says there. I become afraid of other's emotional expectations of me. I shut down, I lose my chemistry with that person, I decide they "are not the one". I push them away and I break up with them.
I'm working through it, it can be done!!!! I am determined to get there and find the happiness that I know is out there!
My boundaries collapse when I let myself fall for someone like my AF who left my mom and 4 children for another woman. The two men I have loved the most in my life (XAH and XABF) pursued me like crazy. Made me think I was special and a princess like my dad never did. My subconscious said "Latch on! You can be healed from your abandonment wounds by your dad!" However, they were both addicts and non-committers. They both suffer from their own abandonment. Even though I left my XABF, I still feel abandoned because he could never fully commit to me. The drugs/alcohol/flirting with other women were powerful even though he still swears he is trying/wants to give them up.
My problem when I have good, really good, amazing, decent, kind, loving real men in my life is that my boundaries then become rigid. I push them away. If you read what I posted about abandonoholics, I do exactly what it says there. I become afraid of other's emotional expectations of me. I shut down, I lose my chemistry with that person, I decide they "are not the one". I push them away and I break up with them.
I'm working through it, it can be done!!!! I am determined to get there and find the happiness that I know is out there!
But then I noticed 77 or so responses.......better have a second look. Some where along the line the boundaries thread morphed into this abandonment thing, which is gold.
My dad left when I was 2 and I only saw him a handful of times over the years, and I know I was better off with out his binge drinking, mean drunk, controlling, over bearing presence. I look back over my life and literally every person/thing I've ever cared about has abandoned me. Many through death, but it counts.
In HWC's post, switch "men" for "women" and there's my relationship history.
I feel myself doing it here and in Alanon, I even withdrew from my sponsor for feelings of getting too close (a guy). "Nice" girls don't interest me, what could be more boring, not to be on a wild emotional rollercoaster.
And what about LMC with her mom choosing a bottle over her? She's smart and plenty old enough now to figure that out. We'll be on a toy shopping spree for her at Target, where she'll sometimes spend an hour deciding what to spend her allowance on.
I'll often tell her I'm gonna go to a different dept too look and if she can't immediately find me I see the panic in her eyes. I've told her time and again, not to worry I wouldn't just "forget" I have a kid and leave with out her. But it doesn't matter.
I don't want to have this anymore and I don't want her to have it, damnit.
Oh, and I've got that gruff thing going for me. Poor LMC, she'll be putting some therapist's kid through college.
Gotta go, I've got that abandonment book pulled up on amazon, $7.47, shipped. Maybe I'll read it to LMC before school starts.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
P.S. This is big ya'll.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by wicked
Yep, and I am ordering the book tomorrow.
Big, big stuff.
Beth
Big, big stuff.
Beth
Picturing the Lone Ranger with Silver raring up, galloping over here " in a cloud of dust, with a hardy Hi Ho Silver". Then calmly hopping off, going into saddle bag and handing me my "gently used" copy. Ha!
Too much time on my hands.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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