akrasia

Hi everyone,

Wow, I'm so relieved to have found this board! I've just spent a nice half-hour reading your stories. I can't speak with anyone in real life about this problem--I'm too embarrassed. Also I wouldn't know where to start.

My husband and I have been together for about six years. Married for the last three. I knew when I met him that he was struggling with an alcohol problem and depression. He'd be fine for months--usually not drinking at all, or maybe having a glass of wine--then suddenly have a binge. It got better over the years. I moved out to his country three years ago and we've been really happy. And I mean really happy.

Until about a year ago. Since he was doing so much better, he started taking more risks in his life, took some leadership roles at work. He didn't always cope well with the new stress, and he had a few binges that lasted a few days. Usually they entail sitting in his study, moping, but occasionally they've meant paranoia and subsequent verbal abuse of me. (For instance, if I go to remove his vomit-crusted shirt, he berates me for "stealing his clothes.") The worst incident was a wedding we went to in a small town about four months ago--he started tanking up and when I took him aside and said, "Hey, take it easy," he took against me and screamed at me in front of all the wedding guests. So that was the first time I thought, yeah, maybe I need to move out.

Two months ago he was keeping things together really well while he ran for a public office. (He didn't win but it was a good campaign, I was proud of him!) Then afterwards he just fell apart. He would binge, sober up a little, then binge again. I confess I berated him, took away his booze and poured it out, told him to knock it off--which twice resulted in him running off to a different town, where he stayed in a hotel to drink and drink.

When he came home, he was determined to stop, but by then he was so marinated he could scarcely function. I remember him looking out the window, shaking, saying, "Quite like to go for a walk, but I'm afraid I'd stop for booze." I printed out several treatment options for him and said I'd take him to anything he liked. He didn't want to go stay somewhere, but he did let me take him to the emergency room, where he got some lithium and referral to counselling.

He does have a counselor, whom he likes. They meet weekly. Yet he keeps hoping he'll be able to drink socially. He'll go out for a drink on a Monday, for instance--have one drink, be perfectly fine. Then another couple of drinks on Tuesday, kind of fine. Then Wednesday will bring a difficulty at work, so maybe just a small drink. Then on Thursday the difficulty at work seems more difficult 'cause he's hungover--then here comes the binge and he just falls out of life for ten days or so.

Fast forward to the past three days:

1. I came home from work on Thursday and noticed the car had a dent. Opened the car door, and there were bottles of wine on the floor, some empty, some full. Also some vomit that had been partially cleaned away. He was inside the house, sleeping it off: when he woke I gave him some food and asked what happened. He said he'd driven "while unfit" and had backed into a wall. He's never done that before: he's always stayed away from the car when drunk. I didn't call the police but I took the keys and now they're always on my person.

2. He's got a big festival/concert this weekend with his choir, in another city. They've been practicing for months. Yesterday when he was semi-sober for a while, he asked me whether he should go. I said I'd help him sober up if he wanted, but if he went while drunk he would probably mess up the concert. I would hate to see his choir fun spoiled--it's a really nice thing in his life. He said he would see. When I got home from work, he was gone, and he'd left a note that he was going to with his choir and do his best. He's in a town about four hours away.

3. I got a call from him an hour ago. He was semi-coherent, but after a while I determined that he'd been drunk, and unable to stop drinking, and so he'd decided to leave the choir festival. He was taking a taxi to the train station but suddenly noticed he had no wallet. The taxi driver dropped him off at a garage. His bag wasn't in the trunk of the taxi--he didn't know whether it was still at the hostel or whether the taxi driver had conned him.

I asked him how far he was to the train station, and he said he didn't know. I asked him how far he was to the hostel, and he didn't know. He began weeping. I told him to call a mutual friend of ours who is also at the choir festival and ask him for help getting to the train station. So who knows where the hell he is now. I just texted him and told him that if I didn't get a call from him in the next half hour I would call the police (I don't have the mutual friend's number). But what would the police be able to do?

I looked at an apartment this morning in our town. It's not too far away and I can afford it.

We are so happy together when he's being what I consider his normal self--which is the majority of the time. And--how to describe this--it's not really even the alcohol that bothers me, it's the depression and paranoia that go hand-in-hand with it. When he's grumpily sobering up he'll carp about how "judgemental" people are about alcohol, how his friends try to change him. I told him that the alternative was just giving up on him.

I love him and I don't want to live without him. I've told him we're in it together and I'll do anything to help him. I literally don't know what to do. I have a life too--I have exams to study for and things I want to do.

And now am I going to have to keep the car keys on my person every day for the rest of our lives? Because I'm not about to have some dead child on my conscience.

Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to vent. I suppose it's disingenuous or me to ask for advice, as there's no one "right" thing to do. I wish I could wave a magic wand and put his heart at peace when he's like this.

dollydo

Welcome.

Look to the left, I have a magic wand, but my waving it over him will do nothing. It only works on me. I have to power to change me, I do not have the power to change anyone else.

He is in the throws of full blown alcoholism, some are daily drinkers, some are binge drinkers, yet both types are alcoholics. This is a progressive disease, my ex was a binge drinker who as the years went by, became a daily drinker, a daily abuser. And, yes, hiding the car keys, money, jewelry and so on becomes a daily event.

So, now what? Have you checked out any meetings in your area? Have you had a sit down with him? Have you put any bounderies in place? if so, are you ready to enforce them?

If for you, moving out is the only answer, then do so. Remember this is his problem, his issue to resolve, not yours.

Keep posting it will help, others will be here to offer support.

CatsPajamas

Hi and welcome!

I'm glad you took some time to read some of the stories here. My recommendation is to read the "stickies" at the top of the page. One of the things I noticed was that many other people had similar experiences to mine.... and almost everyone here says "I love him (or her) so much when he's not drinking, he's such a good person when he's not drunk and we have so much fun when he's not drunk and I want things to be different than they are."

Sadly, I learned I had to accept the whole package - the good and the bad, the violently angry and the really fun guy. I had to be willing to live with the horrible parts and hope to see the good parts.

Ultimately, I learned I had choices and so did he. I chose to work my own program of recovery and learn about boundaries etc. I chose to be happy and content, and not get into a car with him if he wasn't fit to drive, etc.He chose to continue on his same path because he didn't think there was anything wrong with his life or lifestyle.

Some alcoholics and addicts choose recovery. They find a program and stick with it and work it like their lives depend upon it. Sometimes their relationships survive, thrive and grow. Sometimes the relationship is too broken and it doesn't survive. It's different for each of us.

Keep coming back, keep reading and keep posting. You might not like everyone or like all of what you hear, but you'll get some good responses and good ideas and lots to think about.

Hugs, glad you're here.
Cats

sandrawg

As Cats says, some alcoholics choose recovery, but they usually don't do it because of anything anyone says or does.

They do it if and when THEY feel ready. Usually they have to hit bottom to do so. Hitting bottom is different for everyone. Sometimes it requires losing their entire families. I have a friend, 6 yrs sober, who faithfully works his program, who said it wasn't until his wife left w/their 2 kids before he hit his bottom.

Some people need to lose even more than that. The key is, they need to feel the conseequences of their drinking.

Too often they have friends who enable them, who drink with them, who give approval to the destruction they are choosing.

Or family who give them money or shelter.

As long as the consequences of drinking are not worse than the consequences of getting sober, their addiction will win every time.

Meanwhile, everyone who loves them gets caught in this horrendous vortex of insanity. Do you really want to spend your valuable time hiding his car keys...pouring out his booze...trying to figure out when he's lying and when he's not? Do you know the old joke about how do you know when a lawyer is lying, his lips are moving? Substitute "lawyer" for the word "alcoholic."

Often our As become abusive. The more they drink, the more their behavior becomes violent and threatens OUR physical and emotional security.

I had to break up w my xabf because his last drunk resulted in a screaming tirade where he threw his car keys at me and squirted me w a squirt gun. Heaven forbid he had a real gun. I might be dead now.

Why on earth I chose to put up with that level of insanity for so long, is beyond me. I am so glad to be out of it. I'm now going to al-anon, which is helping me so much. Doing my own 12 steps. Focusing on my own recovery. Not trying to change anyone but myself. It's a much more peaceful place.

akrasia

Hi all,

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. He made it to the train station somehow, was able to text me from the train and I went and picked him up. He had a glass of wine this morning but poured the rest away and is trying to sober up.

I'm just bringing him food and generally looking after him while he sobers up. (He feels like crap, as you might imagine.) Right now he's sleeping. I said I'd take him to the emergency room if he wanted, but he seems okay. I said I'd take him to a residential treatment program if he wanted, I've been in contact with several. He's kind of frightened by the idea, but we agreed we'd talk about it more tomorrow.

So once he's better I'll have a serious talk with him. I don't want to do the "...or I'll leave!" thing, but I want to see where he thinks this is going. He did say this morning, "I'm tired of living this way."

I can't get it out of my head that if I say or do the right thing I can help him out of this mess. All I can do is love him and support him. And I deserve a safe place to sleep just like anyone else.

I kinda fear what will happen when I move out. Do I take the car with me? What if he forgets to lock (or even close) the front door at night, as has happened before?

Anyway, thanks again.

Thumper

Yes you do. You can make that happen. You just have to put yourself first. We must all learn to do that because it all falls apart if we don't.

I understand wanting to love and support him. Be thoughtful about if you are loving and supporting him or the addiction. It isn't always clear until you really think about what you are accomplishing.

When you are providing a soft place to land, lovingly nursing him through the mother of all hangovers, keeping him safe when he is to drunk to do it himself - are you supporting him, or the addiction?

My thoughts are with you - I know it is a difficult time. I wish you only peace in the coming days.

Pelican

Is living in fear of his consequences how you want to spend your life?

Hi, I'm Pelican, a recovering alcoholic
a recovering co-dependent and
a recovering (ex)spouse of an alcoholic.
Pleased to meet you!

I want to ask you to please stop making your alcoholic comfortable while he recovers from his hangover. I demanded peace and quiet and fastfood takeout when I was nursing a hangover. Everyone had to walk on egg shells around me. You know what I learned from that? My family would love me and stick by me no matter how horribly I behaved. Why should I change?

If I was feeling sorry for myself (alcoholics are terminally unique), I could throw myself a pity party complete with lots of alcoholic beverages. I could expect fellow drinkers to join me and listen to my tirades. I could expect my family to love me through it all and help me feel better about myself by taking care of me while I recovered from my latest drunken escapade.

As far as your AH not having injured anyone YET, how do you know? How do you know that he only hit a wall with the vehicle? You accept the word of someone who was so drunk that they vomitted themselves?

I know you want to have a serious talk with him, when he is able. I wanted to talk some sense into my AH too. I tried reasoning, crying, screaming, silence and avoidance.
One of the tools that has helped me in my recovery is to "play the tape forward". You imagine your conversation with your AH. You imagine the things you want to say to your AH. Then you imagine the responses. The real responses based on past behaviors. (The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior). What will the end of this conversation look like? What will change?

If this conversation is to bring about change in your AH, why hasn't it worked before?
If this conversation is to let your AH know your feelings, that is your right to share with your partner.
I am suggesting you check your motives for the serious talk with your AH and decide what outcome you are hoping for.

This is a sticky post from one of our permanent posts. I have found this advise to be spot on:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

Please continue to make yourself at home here by reading and posting as much as needed. We are here to support you!

Wittss

OMG. your situation runs so close to mine and others here. You are not alone. But, I have some hope for you because he said, "I'm tired of living this way." I've heard AAers say, "when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired...". That is ultimately what gets them into a program, if they're lucky...I should say, ready. As far as what to say or not to say when you have the big talk, you might just say, "I'm tired of living this way, too." And just let that sit there for him to think about. If he seeks treatment, they usually have a family support group too where you will learn how to quit enabling him;this is your life too. I'm only learning this and I've been in programs off an on for years. That "off" part is now fixed because of this on-line group. So, while I am merely a step or two ahead of you, I hope you don't have to suffer as long as I have before something happens. It's all in God's hands, if you let him take it. "Let go and let God!" He'll let you know what to do about you! He'll also take care of your husband..in His time, in His way. Maybe this is the time. I hope so, for your sake.

In answer to your ongoing angst , the worst thing that can happen to an alcoholic is NO or few consequences.But that doesn't change the outcome. In fact, it can hinder recovery. They either get sober, go to jail or die. I think we loved ones are so conditioned to "help" that we don't realize that (not) to do in each of those circumstances is probably the best thing. We don't want to imagine the unimaginable, but it's important to have an action (or inaction) plan for each. Understand too that getting sober carries risks too. Some couples still don't make it. So be prepared for that. But, take it One Day at a Time. Listen to God, if you believe, or figure out something to be your HP (higher power) and to your inner grown up self. If you're like most people, you married for love, but you don't have to die for it. He is probably not the same person you married. It's a progressive, cunning disease that affects both of you, so keep coming here and consider finding an Al Anon group where you can have real live people there around you.

Let us know how it goes. This forum has helped me in many ways already and I've only been here a couple of weeks. I'll keep you in my prayers.

akrasia

Thanks for all these thoughtful responses. He went out for "the paper" and spent the afternoon at a pub. Again, he was distraught. He came home almost in tears, saying, "It was like I went mad when I walked by the pub, this voice in my head said, 'What's the harm?' and before I knew it I'd drunk four beers. I want to stop!"

I said, "Let's get your toothbrush. I'll drive you to the rehab place, I'll stay with you there tonight if you want. Go on, get your bag, I'll start the car."

He didn't want to, saying, "It would cost several thousand pounds." I countered that we'd pay more than that on bail or fines when he eventually gets caught for drunk driving.

It turned into quite the scene, me saying, "Just give it a try. We have to do something. I don't want to leave you but I can't go on this way." And him countering, "I can't do it. I don't consent to it. If I just do it just to placate you it'll never work." (Which, he kinda has a point.)

He did agree to call his counselor and ask him what he thought about going to rehab. The counselor wasn't available but might call back.

I was crying but I forced myself to calm down and we held each other and talked. Now he's upstairs, resting, waiting for the pubs to close. He said, "At least now all the shops are closed, thank God, and if I make it to 10 the pubs will close too." (It doesn't help that we're in a real drinker's town!)

So here we are. I still have my apartment in place for the end of the month, haven't told him about it. If things don't change once he's sobered up tomorrow I will leave for a few months. I don't want to divorce him, ever. The apartment is right in town so I could still look after him. What I want is for this burden to just be gone, from both of us.

Pelican

(((akrasia)))

I am sorry.

Bucyn

That's a contradiction. You want to look after him and you want the burden to be gone. Which do you want more?

If you want to look after him, you will have the burden, and it's going to get worse.

If you want to put down the burden, you have to stop taking care of him.

It seems you are missing what people are telling you about how helping him is the worst and cruelest thing you can do for him.

He gets to choose when he puts down the burden, and you get to choose when you put it down; chances are very good you will not choose at the same time.

Also, what's the point of moving out if you are still going to look after him?

And...who's looking after you?

Paintbaby

I got the tearful promises from my alcoholic, too. He didn't want to be this way. He wanted to stop. He COULD stop. Promises, tears, that false feeling of closeness reignited. But when it came right down to it, he didn't really want to stop drinking---because if he did, he would have done WHATEVER IT TAKES to stop. Many times, the promises are just a con to buy some time and to garner pity. "If I at least admit I have a problem", they think, "then maybe she'll beleive that I am going to get help, EVENTUALLY. So in the meantime, I can still drink--because HEY--I HAVE A PROBLEM!" Then it becomes "WHY ARE YOU NAGGING ME? I told you I have a PROBLEM! (drinks more) SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO?" SO yeah, it's a no-win situation. When someone is ready to gt help, they get the help--they don't come up with a thousand different reasons why now it just not a good time.

I agree with the others. Letting him marinate in his own vomit would be the best thing you could do for him right now. And maybe examining your own motivations in wanting to continue to look after him as if he is a child and not a grown man, when it isn't going to make the situation any better. You are amongst co-dependents here, and beleive me, we understand. It can be a very seductive thing, feeling so very needed by a broken soul.

Freedom1990

Welcome to SR, Akrasia.

Lots of good stuff already shared with you.

My name is DeVon, and I am a recovering alcoholic/addict, was married to an alcoholic/addict, and I have a 32 year old daughter who's an active addict/alcoholic.

I also have a 22 year old daughter who is with an emotionally/verbally abusive alcoholic boyfriend.

Today, I give them the dignity to make their own choices in life, no matter how 'poor' those choices may seem to me.

I had to hit my own bottom before I embraced recovery, and I give them the same opportunity.

I agree 100% with Pelican in regards to not tending to him while he's nursing a hangover.

I am grateful for how ill I truly was when I first got clean/sober. Had I someone nursing me along, I would not have had much incentive to stay sober, would I?

I'd recommend getting your hands on a copy of the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Also check to see if there are Alanon meetings in your area.

There you will find the face-to-face support of others who have been where you are.

Alanon has been a lifesaver for me.

Again, welcome, and know you are among people who understand and care. )

dollydo

If you continue trying to help him, you may just help him into a point of no return.

You are not helping him by babying him after a toot. You are not helping him by moving out and then running to his rescue.

The "burden" will never be gone for both of you, until, you stop enabling him and he reaches his bottom and seeks recovery for him, not you, him. And, you seek recovery for your codependenc. Right now, as it stands, you are both toxic, to each other.

nodaybut2day

Hi akrasia, and WELCOME to SR. I'm glad you've found this place. It saved my life.

I know you've gotten great advice so far. I just wanted to address this:

Do you believe, after all the years you've been together, that things will suddenly change when he sobers up tomorrow (or the next day, or the day after that)?

And what will this accomplish? You could live in your apartment and perhaps get a bit more sleep so you'll have a bit more energy to take care of *him*? What about you? Where does he end and where do you begin?

I say this with love...you're engaging in magical thinking here. Your husband deserves the dignity of finding his own recovery for himself. You cannot find it for him or baby him through it.

The only power you truly have is over yourself.

Keep posting and reading. SR is always open.

transformyself

akrasia
I've known other women who have done exactly what you're talking about doing-move out but maintain some sort of relationship. It's their comfort level that's important, not any ones elses. One person in particular, who does post here, maintained that relationship until her A died from alcoholism. She loved him, created the boundaries necessary for herself and still supported him in a way that she was comfortable with, right up until he passed. Now she grieves his loss and the loss of all he was capable of before alcoholism took it all away.

That's not a popular approach here. But it worked for her.

Lots of folks need to have no contact to be have some sanity. You seem sane and intelligent to me. I'm sure with continued reading and support here, you'll come up with a plan that will best keep you more safe and sane. You see the escalation in his drinking that's happening. With continued drinking, that only gets worse. You seem to have some grasp of your powerlessness over his drinking. Cause you really are you know. We all are. Dollydo is absolutly right, the magic want only works on ourselves. But I'm grateful it does!

I'm really glad you're here. Welcome.

Bernadette

What I want is for this burden to just be gone, from both of us.

You will wait all your life if waiting, wishing, and hoping are your plan.

The scary thing I've seen, and I saw it with my mother, is you reach a kind of "tipping point" where the years of enabling, denial, resentment, wishful-thinking and "I can't speak with anyone in real life about this problem--I'm too embarrassed," just destroy some of your very best qualities - you lose yourself, you give your very best self away to Team Alcohol, and Team Alcohol takes the prize of 2 lives, or more: as many as are wiling to hang on to the insanity of the alcoholic's behavior and be dragged right down with them.

I had to learn that any small bit of enabling I continued to pursue was helping alcohol kill my brothers. Enabling is NOT love or support. It is a bullet in the chamber. AlAnon was a great resource in turning my head around and getting the focus back on me, and it's free!

Peace-
b

lakelover

Hi. What great advice from all these caring people. Had it not been for Alanon and having the support of those people in my meetings, I would be in a different place right now. Alanon is not for your alcoholic, it's for you. You need to get help for yourself. I tried for a long time to "control" my husband with his drinking. I would tell him how many drinks he was allowed, I would check his cooler before he went to play golf, then I would be waiting at the door when he came in and just go insane if he was drunk. You can fix this with him. You can't stop him, you can't change it. The only one who can fix him is him. AA is not for people who need help, it's for people who want it. Really want it. I had to come to the realization that I was and active enabler. I was in denial that he really was an alcoholic know darn well deep down he was. My life got worse and worse. Finally, our oldest daughter while home from college looked at him and asked if he had any plans on getting help. For some reason, something hit him and he started going to AA. It took me a few months to get to Alanon and now realize I should have been in there years ago. But, I am a firm believer that we are all put where we are supposed to be when we get there. I was doing all that you were doing before his sobriety....and nothing worked until he realized he needed to change. One of the things he said to me was the first meeting was like a huge weight lifted off of him. The same thing happened to me when I went to Alanon. All of a sudden, I realized that I was not the only one living this horrible unmanageable life. I did not feel alone anymore. It helps YOU change to get YOUR own peace and normalcy. It's an amazing feeling. My suggestion is to find a meeting in your areal asap.
Remember that you did not cause this, you can't change it and you can't control it. I hope he does finally get sick and tired of being sick and tired...if he only knew what is waiting for him. Bless his soul.

akrasia

Thanks everyone.

He's sobered up now and is back to his old self, but feeling weak and tired. Yesterday, for the first time since I've known him, he said, "I want this to stop forever." You have to understand: although he's a kind person, he's not into making flowery promises to placate people. In the past about the drinking he's just said stuff like, "Hey, that's who I am, I can't change, I have these binges once in a while and go mad. Je suis comme je suis." For him to say, "This can't happen again," is quite a shock.

He was saying, "I think I just need to never have alcohol again. I can never drink without it sliding into a binge." (ORLY?) We did have a little talk about how that might happen, what he would do for relaxation or how he would cope with urges to drink. Though I was caring, I kept myself aloof from it as well, saying: "Well, I bet your counsellor would have some ideas for you about what would work." I don't want to be the therapist and anyway I'm not qualified!

He asked whether I'd like to come to an appointment with his drink counsellor. Thursday is my day off work, so my husband called the counsellor, who very kindly agreed to come and do a home visit on Thursday morning.

So we'll see how that goes. I do feel hopeful about the change in attitude, and the fact that he genuinely likes this counsellor guy, whom he's been seeing for a few weeks. I asked him again today about the in-patient residential treatment thing, and he said he'd rather try treatment at home. Also, on Thursday I'll be able to say my piece about how I'm at the end of my tether--I expect it will be easier to say when the counsellor is there. I want to be able to tell him that even when he's not bingeing, I'm worrying about when it will strike, planning my life around it. I can't have a conversation with him without some element of placating and coddling him. Which, come on, that's not love, that's not even friendly.

Anyway, we'll see. I haven't cancelled my apartment yet. I haven't told my husband about it yet either.

nodaybut2day

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here, BUT words are just words. They can pull those statements out any time and *really mean them* but in the end...actions and long-term commitment to sobriety are what speak. Ask the recovered alcoholics on this board.

But of course he would...it's ever so comfortable at home and with a soft place to land, he doesn't have to feel bad when he slips up.

Can I ask why?

Very smart on both accounts.