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Old 07-07-2010, 08:01 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mamm View Post
Devon i ddo think we can break the chain, my D was an A they only had me and I am not one at all.
But you married one, so the cycle continues.

My father was an A, I am not, but I married one.............and on it goes.

L
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:23 AM
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Just an afterthought.

Originally Posted by Evey2010 View Post
We're expecting a child in a few months and it's really not worthwhile to leave him at this point. He's always been a good and attentive father to his son from a previous marriage.
In another thread you said this:
People used to never understand why my dad's alcoholism made me so angry as a teenager... because my dad never got ugly or "un-lovable." It wasn't that he turned into this awful person, it was simply that he turned into someone else.
Just something to think about, no response necessary.
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:56 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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When you're with an alcoholic, things other people in healthy relationships consider crazy, become normal. And I call this "adjustable normalcy."

I saw it in my sisters, who both married alcoholics. Very odd, that my sisters married alcoholics, yet my father was not one. I think, tho that he may have had a drinking problem before I was born, and I know he had a bit of a temper. He mellowed considerably by the time I came around, many yrs later.

Anyway, when I was a kid, my sister was married to a hardcore alcoholic. Me and my parents would go visit, and the guy would do the most INSANE things. I remember one night, he just pulled down his pants, and peed on the floor. Even as a kid, I knew this wasn't right!! My sister just acted like it was no big deal, and rushed to clean it up and put him to bed.

Her stepchildren lived with all of this! I can't even IMAGINE. At least I was able to walk away from it. How damaging was this??? Well, both her stepchildren have been in and out of jail, had drug problems, illegitimate children, episodes of violence...etc.



Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
You just described the first 12 or so years of my marriage. It did get worse in my case. But it was gradual. Almost imperceptibly so. Little by little he got less functional. And little by little, I accepted more and more unacceptable behavior. I slowly lost myself. My children grew up thinking that 6-12 beers a night was normal. The "one-time events" became regular occurrences. I took on more and more responsibility as he became less responsible. It was like sticking my fingers in the cracks of a crumbling dam. Pretty soon, you run out of fingers....

L
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:46 PM
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It never stops hurting
I disagree; the pain stops when you're willing to let it go. This often-cited post by NytePassion entitled "When Does the Pain Stop" says it all:

The Pain Stops: when you stop looking at the person you love as the person you love, and you begin to see them, not as a partner, a lover, or a best friend, but as a human being with the strengths and weaknesses and even the core of a child.

The Pain Stops: when you begin to accept that what you would do in a circumstance is not what they would do, and that no matter how much you try, they have to learn their own lessons, and they have to touch the stove when it's hot, just as you did, to learn that it is much better when it is cold.

The Pain Stops: when your longing for them gets slowly replaced by a desire to get away, when making love to them no longer makes you feel cherished, when you find yourself tired of waiting for the moments where the good will truly outweigh the bad, and when at the end of the day you can't count on their arms for comfort.

The Pain Stops: when you start to look inward and decide whether their presence is a gift or a curse, and whether when you need them, they cause more heartache than bliss.

The Pain Stops: when you realize that you deserve more than they offer and stop blaming them for being less than you wish. When the smile of a stranger seems more inviting and kind, and you remember what it's like to feel beautiful, and you remember how long it has been since your lover whispered something in your ear that only the two of you would know.

The Pain Stops: when you forgive them for their faults and forgive yourself for staying so long. When you know that you tried harder than you ever tried before, and you know in your heart that love should not be so much work.

The Pain Stops: when you start to look in the mirror and like who you see, and know that leaving them or losing them is no reflection of your beauty or your worth.

The Pain Stops: when the promise of a new tomorrow is just enough to start replacing the emptiness in your heart, and you start dreaming again of who you used to be and who you will become.

The Pain Stops: when you say goodbye to what never really was, and accept that somewhere in the fog you may or may not have been loved back. And you promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don't know how to cherish the kindness in your heart.
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:38 PM
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Here's the link to the original thread.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ain-stops.html

Mike
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:22 PM
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Every-- day he drinks
Every-- day he is one step closer to full blown alcoholism
Every-- day you assume that because he does not drink from AM to PM he is not an "A" you are fooling yourself.

Every, if you feel something is not right today, believe me, it will not be right tomorrow. This is a nasty progressive disease, what you justify today will become your worst nightmare.

I wish you and your baby the best!
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:16 PM
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Mine was as sweet as pie in the beginning. Open car doors, flowers. But he drank every night "cuz it helps me sleep".

Fast forward 2 years-he is a completely different person. Emotionally abusive, rude, uncaring.

As time passes, the disease roots itself and takes over. It controls them...they no longer have control of their life.

Be careful. Once things change with an A, its like being inside a tornado. You are in the middle of it, you know you need to get out and cant.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:24 PM
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So, two things.
I think Alanon is about helping us find our center enough that we can either
a) find serenity in our relationship with our alcoholic, or
b) realize we can't find that and leave so that we may find it -
meaning our own peace and well being and growth becomes paramount - more than the relationship or him or anything else.

If you are not finding peace through Alanon while in your relationship, that is a message to you about your relationship - not Alanon.

The second thing, is I have a wonderful husband (read some of my earlier posts). He is not abusive. He is GREAT!
AND he over-drinks, drinks in secret and lies about it. When I let that be (for almost 10 years), we were great, almost IDEAL; he never seemed drunk, he is a great partner. He has tons in common with me.

Only occasionally would I get hints that he was lying and I would doubt myself, etc. or he would be down and extra sensitive/defensive (which I didn't think of as depression till now).

When I started talking about his drinking and how the above mentioned problems needed to be addressed, he CHANGED! He has gotten grumpy/defensive/sad/mad/hopeless/shut down/sarcastic/snotty, etc.

Who is this stranger??!?

I did a LOT of "but he's really great and..." and "maybe I'm just being demanding and unreasonable..." and "maybe I'm just overly judgmental and unfair and un-accepting..."

But, ultimately, its about me asking myself:
What do I need?
What do I want?
What is unacceptable?
What is a deal breaker?
What am I worth?
And I'll tell you, I am worth more than being lied to.
And you are worth more than throwing things at a wall to deal with your rage.
Is that the relationship you deserve?

Hugs,
Peace
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:22 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Points taken. I did go to an Al Anon meeting the other night (and called my sponsor from a year ago). I do think it will just get worse... and even if it doesn't, even the way he "disappears" today hurts. But the Al Anon meeting reminded me to just take things one day at a time. And today he's good to me. Today he doesn't lie or sneak out. Today he's kind and attentive, sensitive and thoughtful. Today he's highly functional, helpful and generous. Today he's the man I love. Al Anon does remind me to stay in the here and now because we really can't know for sure what might or could happen. Fearing what might happen or what even what might likely happen is just pointless... the future is going to come, without or without our fears.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:24 PM
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That's all well and good when he's "being good" that day. What happens when he's not?
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
That's all well and good when he's "being good" that day. What happens when he's not?
Thus far, he's been good the entire time. I mean, I should note I've only known him a year. Without getting into all the details, it was a bit of a whirlwind romance culmanating into a very unexpected pregnancy (I had thought and been told I was infertile). We were both very happy and decided to get married because we were/are in love and wanted our child born into a happy marriage (which it has been). We always argued about his drinking... from the start of the relationship. And I do recall, at some point, early on, thinking I had to make a choice of whether or not I wanted to go down this road again... and I thought I could "handle it." I figured, you roll the dice with everyone anyway... what's the difference now? I know when who married men who never drank for the first few years they were together and then all of a sudden one day they find the guy they thought was so sober collapsed on the floor every night. I knew another woman who married a drinker who then became sober for 20 years!! ...only to start drinking again and die. So... I suppose I just figured, it could happen to anyone at anytime. And I loved this man and figured he was worth the risk as much as anyone else.

So, anyway, I don't know what I'll do if that day comes that his habit becomes a problem I absolutely can't live with. Even if tomorrow he stopped drinking altogether, I'd still be left wondering "what if he starts again?" What's the point in living one's life always worried about what someone else might do or who they might become? Again, I'm just going to take the old Al Anon advice, "one day at a time." Or, as my mom likes to say, sometimes if you have to do just one hour at a time or one minute at a time. I do know, from Al Anon and just from my loving family and friends, how to take care of myself come what may. I know I'm loved and I know I'll be alright no matter what happens.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:51 PM
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My ah is an easy-going, never abusive, happy drunk kind of guy. We're in our 30s, it's like he just never left university and drank heavily every weekend. All fine and good until I started toning it down (and most of our friends) and he didn't. Became a problem. Got pregnant. He was borderline drunk when my water broke and went into labour at home. Many nights was out with me stuck with a colicky baby who cried for hours between 10-3am. Left me in a parking garage when I went to see a baseball game he was playing - walked me to the car and said see ya. Could be any new dad, right?
One night we were visiting friends far from our home and stayed over. He and his buddy got wasted, and when he came up to the bedroom where we were, and in his unfamiliarity with the room, tripped over the portable crib and almost took a header into our sleeping daughter. Next day it was over for me, and that lead him to recovery. He rarely drank weekdays, binged on weekends. Smart, good job, played sports. But I know what you mean about disappearing. Eyes glazed over. I've started seeing that guy again recently (after 1.5 years sobriety without a program) and not sure where that's headed. Bottom line - if it's a problem for you, then it's a problem regardless of whether he or anyone else considers it so. I often told ah that I'd trade in all the dishwashing, cooking, taking out trash nice normal things he did for him being sober 100%. He can be a good person otherwise and it still may not be enough if his drinking hurts you on any level, they are not mutually exclusive. He is not as bad as some a's, but doesn't mean he's not one - they come in many shapes and forms.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:04 PM
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Well, I suppose that's one of the things that I reserved for a bit of hope for him because... seeing him with his son... I know that there's nothing he wouldn't do or change if ever he thought it was hurting or disadvantaging his child. His son always comes first in his life... before anyone or anything. It's sad to think that something bad might have to happen before he realizes that his drinking might hurt his kids, but I am quite sure that, if that day ever did come, that would be the end of his drinking. I could be wrong, but he really is unique in the level of his absolute and utter devotion to his child. I know most all dads love their kids, but with my husband, his son is the center of his whole world more than I've ever seen another man with a child. I just can't imagine there isn't anything he wouldn't do for him... if it ever became undeniable that it was something he needed to do.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:20 PM
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The relationship my XAH had with his son was also what made me hold out hope for him. It's what made me fall for him initially. He always seemed willing to do anything for him, to fight for his rights, to defend him, to care for him when the biomom just seemed not to care...it was lovely.

5 years and a baby later, DSS is a teenager, tough to handle, somewhat rebellious, as all teenagers are. As far as I know, XAH and his son's relationship completely fell apart when I left and DSS is now living in Toronto with his mother. I never thought I'd see it happen; they were so close. But DSS got smart and started questioning his father's alcohol intake, and well, I guess XAH didn't want someone else nagging him about drinking.

Things can change. Actually, things always change in that respect.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble Evey. I just hope that your eyes are open to that possibility.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:25 PM
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Well, if being difficult and rebelious is the litmus test or potential breaking point, I'd say my husband's son has already come to the peak of that! lol
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:33 PM
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Here's the thing. Eventually, you are going to get sick of having to isolate yourself. I got so sick of having little ladies at church try to set me up b/c they did not know i am married. I got sick of leaving or hiding when he was drinking. I got sick of just living w/someone versus having a husband.

Trust me, it will get worse. I advise you do not have children w/this person as if you do you will be crushed, as they always pick the bottle over their families. My husband did. Read around on here, 99.9% of the time that is how it happens. Don't try to change him, if there is any change it has to be because he wants it, not you.

Analyze your life, are you getting out of life what you deserve?? If not, why not and what can YOU do to change that. I am not trying to be harsh, I do feel your pain. I truly love my husband. He chose rehab thank God but has a long ways to go (100 days + clean). There is not a doubt in my head that if he were to take one sip ever, I....no HE....would be gone. I have finally hit my tolerance level...have you hit yours?? You will know it when you do as there will be no doubt in your mind that you will not put up with one second more.

Good Luck and God Bless.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
one way to prove that theory out.........share your concerns with him exactly as you have with us and that you are ALREADY concerned that his drinking is an impediment and with the pending birth of the baby, for the sake of ALL concerned, including the children, ask that he quit NOW.......
I did do this. Except that I didn't ask him to quit (because I know better). I just told him how I felt about his disappearing and my worries and painful feelings. He said he's really sorry I'm feeling so upset and unhappy about it all but that, in his opinion, I'm projecting my past bad experiences with alcoholics onto him. He said he'd try to go more nights without drinking... but he was honest enough to say that it was his problem and that even if he was to quit, he'd have to do it for himself and not for anyone else (even me).

And, well, what can I say to that? He's right. Alcoholics can only quit for themselves... doing it for anyone else doesn't work in the long run.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Evey2010 View Post
And, well, what can I say to that? He's right. Alcoholics can only quit for themselves... doing it for anyone else doesn't work in the long run.
To me, that pretty much sums it up. He's already got a son, he's got a baby on the way, and a wife who doesn't like his drinking. But still, he doesn't want to quit. Kinda shows what the priority in his life is, doesn't it?

L
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Evey2010 View Post
...but he was honest enough to say that it was his problem and that even if he was to quit, he'd have to do it for himself and not for anyone else (even me).

And, well, what can I say to that? He's right. Alcoholics can only quit for themselves... doing it for anyone else doesn't work in the long run.
I heard the same thing from my A. I was so proud and I thought, wow, you're being honest with yourself and me. That lasted 1 week and she was back on the bottles. I've personally come to learn that them taking ownership is a crock and it's just one more arrow in their quiver of lies and excuses and manipulations.

Sorry to poo in the thread but I personally don't buy that ownership stuff anymore. It's still words and I don't think words count for too much anymore.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:59 PM
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well I couldn't say that he maliciously intended to leave me in the lurch, or ever intended anything but love and good things for his baby. But, a big BUT, he couldn't help himself because the booze satisfied such an intense itch that he just had to scratch. I'm sure he felt that his behaviour had no effect on his daughter - he's just having a few to unwind, and sometimes takes it a bit too far. Nothing more or less, I was making a bigger deal that it ever was. Their thinking becomes distorted and self-serving. He could bend any situation to make it sound justifiable and rational to himself so that he could go and get drunk with a clear conscience.

One other time, we had friends over and he passed out by the end of the evening. And by the time I went to bed, I realized I had a stomach flu. Baby woke, crying. Also stomach flu. I was literally crawling to her room, nauseated, and had to leave her screaming and vomiting while I did same in the bathroom. Calling out for him to wake up to help and of course he was sleeping like the dead. Fast forward through a terrible night, until finally at 5am he emerges from the room, wondering why the baby is crying and I'm hugging the toilet. I was enraged - just another example of how I could not depend on him and the only thing I could depend on was that he'd drink again. The string of small events like that really did it, rather than huge drinkfests out to all hours in the bar. At least with those I knew it was game over for the night. I heard once in these forums something that stuck with me - alcoholism weaves itself into the fabric of our lives. It's not just when they drink, it saturates all aspects.
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