gingercharlie

I'm still processing the breakup with XABF. Im wondering if I could have avoided this pain, had I seen the signs earlier. I'm also wondering how to spot/avoid another A in the future. In reading hundreds of threads here, it seems like there's some common qualities/things to look out for (when sober). Such as:

• Avoids conflict
• Does not accept criticism
• Emotionally disconnected

Do you agree/disagree? Others?

Jazzman

Woah.. do a wikipedia search on Narcissism and Sociopath, scroll down to see a list of characteristics used to diagnose those personality disorders.

Bolina

I think it's easier (and less negative) to do it the other way around.

What are the traits of a healthy person?

fourmaggie

its funny...I tend to find a sober person...but a back ground of some form of substance abuse there...

Freedom1990

I had to get healthy myself first before I could correctly identify healthy in others.

That's taken a lot of internal work over the years, but it's sure been worth it.

Bolina

Funny, DeVon. I had typed out something similar but deleted it because I am always banging on about working on oneself and din't want to sound like a stuck record.

I like the idea of identifying what would be attractive in a partner and then becoming it myself. Like attracts like and all that.

LaTeeDa

Out of curiosity, how far into the relationship were you when you discovered these traits?

L

gingercharlie

I'm not sure I was entirely aware of them until the very end. If you had given me a questionnaire with these traits listed, I may have checked them off about 8 months in. But yet I wasn't really aware/conscious of them, if that makes sense.

Why do you ask?

LaTeeDa

Well, because it's really not so much about which traits another person has. It's more about how aware we are, and what actions we take.

So, even if you were to make yourself a handy checklist of all the traits you want to avoid in a future mate, it's still more about you than them. I promise you there is no 'complete' list of what to avoid. And, even if such a list existed, you still could never avoid people who had them completely.

My therapist once told me it's not about trusting THEM, it's about trusting YOURSELF. At the time, I had no idea what she was talking about.

If you read the stories on this board, you will see that many (if not most) of us, knew our A had alcohol problems long before the relationship ended. We either chose to ignore the red flags, or thought we could get them to change.

I've dated two men since I separated from my husband. One of them, I went out with 4 or 5 times. I have no idea from so few dates if he was an alcoholic. But, there were red flags I started to notice, and at that point, I decided not to continue seeing him. He was sweet and charming, complimentary and very interested in me. He may have turned out to be a great guy but.......I trusted my instincts and ended it. The other guy, I'm still seeing three years later. There were no red flags, no uncomfortable little feelings, no gut instinct telling me something was wrong.

My point is, while making a list might seem useful, learning to see little behaviors that aren't right, and developing an ability to trust yourself will be way more beneficial in the long run.

L

spinwc

I wish I would have listened to my gut. So many times I thought "this isnt right". I would have saved myself alot of heartache if I would have just trusted myself.

gingercharlie

Yeah, I was well aware XABF had a problem lonnnnng before the relationship ended. I suppose you could say I ignored the red flags, but it's probably more accurate to say that I thought that his drinking wouldn't be an insurmountable problem, that somehow we'd get through it.

I trusted my instinct, I knew what was wrong. The thing is, I didn't know what to do with that instinct.

In all honesty, I don't think I would have EVER left. That scares the sh*t outta me.

LaTeeDa

That is my point. We can categorize and analyze till the cows come home. But the real work that we need to do is on ourselves.

Becoming confident in who we are and what we know to be true. Becoming aware of things that are uncomfortable. Knowing that there is abundance in the universe, and not behaving as if love is scarce. Getting to know ourselves, our likes, dislikes, dreams, ambitions, and gifts. Not settling for less than we deserve. Having the courage to 'pass up' situations or relationships that seem to meet our immediate needs, but compromise our values in the long run. These are the traits we must cultivate in ourselves, and others with similar values will be attracted to that, without any undue amount of effort on our part.

L

gingercharlie

I see where you're going with this...

LaTeeDa

Just in case you have never read it:

http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet.html

Words to live by.

L

FarawayFromCars

Yes, my alcoholic sister exhibits those traits.

gingercharlie

Where do I start?

Jess01

We all have dreams and goals to one day be happy and to find a loving partner that wont cause us pain. Easier said than done, especially with people that have an addiction or who are co-dependent. Its kind of a match made in hell if the two opposites get together. So how to avoid this? I keep asking myself the same question.
When you meet a potential mate, take it slow, get to know them, listen, listen listen to your gut. If the relationship makes you frown more than smile you know its not right. Our emotions will fight with our head, but the truth will break through eventually.

yeahgr8

Had a massive convo about this yesterday with a non-addict/alchie friend (OMG so cool to have a day out with a 'normal' friend lol...i didnt say that;-))...you have just described the EGO protecting itself...

Its really worth reading up on the EGO, some great books out there and for the alchie/addict how it is prepared to go on to the end (death) to protect itself...rock bottoms was another talking point, and how there are quite a few in life whether addict or not when we are bought to our knees (us not EGO) and only then is it possible to do something about changing...if not addict stuff maybe job, partner, place, lifestyle etc...

The problem the addict has with the EGO is that when bought to knees the EGO is still running the show so will take a back seat and allow the addict time without DOC and then when he/she feels better and the consequences are a dim memory will be back stronger than ever...i have a lot of friends that went to rehab and they use the term SLICK there for the adict voice but really and truthfully it isnt an addcit voice at all it is EGO and this is why and how addictions get transferred, e.g. addict stops DOC and starts working 14 hours a day, 'taking interest'
in something else even if that something else may seem productive, .e.g all of sudden becomes the walton family father/mother...

But as it is still the EGO running the show from the background nothing will ever be enough to satisfy it and eventually it will be back in the forefront 'helping' with the new ensuing chaos...

Crazy huh?! Wonder if that is where the phrase 'your own worst enemy' comes from??

SoloMio

Here are the things that should have been red flags for me 35 years ago:

--I met him in a night club after he sent a drink to my table
--He was two hours late to pick me up for our first date, which was a Broadway play, so we wound up only seeing Act II
--Every date was a drinking date
--He told me how to dress when I first met his friends, so that they would "approve" of me
--He abandoned me after a big benefit that my mom had gotten us ticket for, just three weeks after we met, because he was hanging out and drinking with another alkie. He wound up passed out in his car. I couldn't drive home because it was a stick shift and I didn't know how to drive them then. So I came home at 9ish in the morning--my mother was so angry she forbade me to go to my best friends wedding that day.
--He had little respect for my personal boundaries.
--My mother told me, in frustration, "Damn it, you are settling for crumbs when you deserve the whole cake!" At this point, 4 weeks into our relationship, my mother was crying herself to sleep because then AB was so much like my AF.

So the BROADER question is: Why did I continue the relationship???
--He felt so comfortable
--I thought we had a lot in common and the time just flew when we talked
--He said all the right things that fed my fragile ego
--He was more fun than I had allowed myself to be my whole life
--I was chasing something in the same way that he was--but that something was outside of ourselves--for me it was my dead dad, and for him, it was just the experience of alcohol. I literally saw the chance to "save" him the way I couldn't save my dad. He saw the chance to "date up" (I was a college grad, he wasn't. He thought I was rich. I wasn't.) And he also really enjoyed the fact that I just went along. He told a friend that he was so amazed that in a couple of months of dating we hadn't had ONE fight.

So, to answer the original question: the alcoholic traits buried in that story are selfishness, skill at manipulation and charm, all tied up in a massive ego but the train that drove that engine was simply a compulsion to keep drinking no matter what. The "how" he drank should have been the biggest most obvious red flag.

coffeedrinker

This is fascinating. I'd like to hear more.