MsAngel

What should I expect?

I am nervous, but actually excited because I feel this may possible be the first real step towards improving things.

I really don't know how AH feels about it though. The fact that he has agreed to go & hasn't made any BS excuses about being busy is progress. But, I don't know how the session may go, he may go into complete shutdown mode when we get there & it will be pointless.

He just got out of jail & in some ways really appears to be trying. He has respected my no drinking around me or the kids & no coming home drunk & seems to be drinking less. But, then he still is drinking which means I see him less, which is disappointing. But, at the same time I'd rather not see him at all than have to deal with him drunk. We've had more real conversations in the past week than we have had in the past 4 months, I think partly because a month in jail gave his brain a break from all the alcohol & he is thinking a little more clearly, at least for now.

Have others been through this? Was counseling helpful at all or is this likely a waste of time?

LaTeeDa

I remember the first joint counseling session I went to with my AH was VERY disappointing to me. Looking back, I can see why. The reason I wanted him to go to counseling with me was so that I could have someone "on my side." I wanted the counselor basically to back me up, tell him what he was doing was wrong, and tell him he better stop it, lol.

As it turns out, we had a very sharp counselor, who figured out right away that he had no intention of stopping drinking. So, she worked with me, focused on my issues, and what I could change about myself that would help me. It really ticked me off at the time, since I went there to get him to change, not me. After a few sessions, though, I ended up seeing her without him, and she helped me tremendously.

So, from my experience, check your expectations at the door.

L

Thumper

Our counselor wouldn't even do marriage counseling unless xah was in an active program of recovery. She saw xah independently first, and then he requested joint sessions and we did three together. He quit counseling and then I saw her a few times on my own.

She specialized in addictions. I hope your counselor has a background in addictions. I felt it was important before hand and definitely felt that way after the fact. She really understood the dynamics of the situation.

Best of luck to you!

Freedom1990

I've got to co-sign with Anvil on this one.

My first husband and I briefly did some marriage counseling.

The problem with that was I was an active alcoholic, and in no way, shape, or form ready to address my alcoholism.

The end result was he divorced me, and rightfully so.

He went on to marry a terrific gal, and they had two sons. I'm happy that life turned out good for him because he was/is a good man.

MsAngel

Thank you everyone. I'm trying not to really get my hopes up too much. Honestly I do hope that this brings to light all of his issues & he will see that he needs help. In addition to alcohol I think he suffers from depression as well.

The counselor I chose does have a background of working with "chemical dependency". Does that mean alcohol or something else entirely?

I have been seeing a different counselor for 4 months, so I am slowly dealing with all my issues. I am really hoping this can focus on our issues & maybe he will see his issues & seek further help on his own.

This past week is the first time he has acknowledged the impact of his behavior on our marriage at all, which is why I am hopeful & also why he is respecting the no drinking at home rule. Before now he truly blamed all our problems on me. Even when I first said I didn't want to be around him drunk he flipped out. But, then when I pointed out all the times he has ranted, called me names, accused me of lying, broken things, threatened me, etc & pointed out that he has only ever acted like that when drunk, that I think maybe something clicked in his head. He has agreed not to bring all that drama around me or the kids & has so far stuck to that promise.

I am just really hoping that maybe a few more things will click into place for him when we talk to a counselor. Argh. I am really trying not to be to hopeful, because tomorrow might be horrible.

nodaybut2day

XAH and I had 4 sessions with a counsellor paid for by my EAP. I went to counselling like LTD, in the hopes that I could get someone on my side, defending my views and telling XAH he was unreasonable. I was also secretely hoping that marriage counselling could help me convince XAH that he had a drinking problem...The basic argument XAH was working with back then was that I needed to give up breastfeeding and cosleeping with our daughter, who was 12 months old at the time, because it impeded my sex drive, made me constantly tired and unavailable to him. My rebuttle was that she was too young to be weaned and that if he just helped me with DD a bit, then I might be less tired and more inclined to be sexually active with him (I was too chicken to mention that he disgusted me).

I was surprised that the counsellor was rather two-faced. In our individual session, he seemed very sympathetic to me when I discussed XAH's addiction. He told me he "couldn't be impartial" because it was obvious that I was being mistreated. That session left me feeling hopeful.

In our 2nd couples' session though, he went on to tell me that I needed to decide what was more important: Attachment parenting/extended nursing, or my marriage. Not a single word about the alcoholism or the abuse. Nothing. I felt very betrayed and not just a little PISSED. I don't know if it was because the guy was hired by my EAP and could only give us 4 sessions so he wanted to magically *fix* us, or if it was because he was far too mainstream to approve of my "granola-hippy" views, but it was obvious that I wasn't going to get any support from him. That's when I realized that no one would help me but ME.

Jazzman

Alcoholics are chemically dependant upon alcohol. Cigarette smokers are chemically dependent upon nicotine, coffee drinkers are chemically dependent upon caffeine. It has to do with how the brain reacts to chemicals and that's why I prefer to view addiction as a chemical dependency. Kinda avoids the whole disease quagmire thing and puts it squarely where it belongs.

The handful of addiction therapists I have talked to would not consider marriage counselling until the addict was in a solid program of recovery and making measurable progress.

Be careful about therapists that just wants to bill the insurance company and keep looking until you find one you like.

I went to one of Mels sessions and it turned out to be a disaster. I was looking for some one to help me make a communications break through. We were discussing her apparent aversion to getting her hours back at work and I voiced my concern that she might be procrastinating because going back to would cut into her drinking time. She stood up and barked at me for ruining her sessions and stormed out all days of our lives like... Her therapist and I stared at each other for a few awkward moments and she said.. "You might want to look into Al Anon".

Freedom1990

Alcoholism qualifies as chemical dependency.

The bottom line he's still drinking, in spite of having been in jail.

He may not be bringing it around you, but he's still drinking.

As LTD said, check your expectations at the door.

MsAngel

You're all depressing me, although I don't doubt you speak the truth & it is what I need to hear.

I just feel that there is a short window of opportunity right now to get through to AH. With the experience of jail still fresh in his mind & some of the brain cobwebs having cleared from being sober for a month, it seems like now is the one shot I have to get through to him until he likely starts back down into another death spiral. I was hoping with the right push that this whole experience would be his personal bottom.

I really don't doubt that if he doesn't start to change his behavior that we will be right back where we were in a few short months & that really sucks. Although this time I have changed & I won't let him drag me back down with him again.

nodaybut2day

I want to say this gently...do you see that you're hoping that what you do or say will change your AH? His path to recovery is his own and nothing you do or say (or a therapist says) can really change that.

I don't want to depress you. Instead I want to remind you that you've made progress in these past few months and it's important to remember what you've learned:
You didn't cause it.
You can't cure it.
You can't control it.

That "short window of opportunity" is a idea you've created for yourself, perhaps in the hopes of changing your AH "before it's too late". In reality, your AH has the opportunity, every moment of every day to decide to recover. He is just not choosing to do so.

Please remember to take care of yourself.

MsAngel

This made me laugh & cry. You are completely right.

It's been less than 4 months since I've realized there is a problem, so I think I still haven't fully accepted there is nothing I can do to fix him. I've accepted that I can't force him to quit drinking, but I guess I still feel I can somehow force him to recognize that he should quit drinking & then he will just quit drinking on his own. I didn't even realize I was doing this until now, LOL. Well, baby steps I guess.

Jazzman

I use to think if I worded my pleas just right, caught her in just the right moment, took advantage of just the right opportunity, got the timing just right, I could fix her. As it turned out no matter how honorable and noble my intentions I was just not that powerful.

Freedom1990

Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.

Alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful.

You're trying to manipulate a disease.

Take it from an old battle ax. I tried that with my EXAH, and with my 32 year old AD.

It didn't work.

Bolina

I went to joint counselling to get someone on my side, like the others said. But, in hindsight, it was so that I could leave him with someone who could take over looking after him. I needed there to be someone there that he could turn to when I left. Of course, it was 3 months before I figured that one out. hehehe.

Our counsellor was great, although more for me than for him or us. He really got me listening to my ex, rather than jumping in to correct his misconceptions and lies. He helped me understand the dynamic and our parts in it. And asked me questions that I needed to be asked in order to give voice to those unformed thoughts in my head.

If I were to make any suggestions at all, my only one would be to keep an open mind.

transformyself

I have great news. You can continue to work on the only thing you DO have control over--yourself--and you can fix your life and be happier than you ever imagined.

When you have true detachment from his alcoholism and issues, when you make yourself happy and rely on yourself, no one can **** with your happiness. It's true.

If you go into therapy thinking you can finally fix or control your husband, or mother in law, or bozo the clown, you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. But fixing yourself? That's where real, deep peace occurs.

Bolina

I confess that I'm a bit puzzled by the idea that some marriage counselling will give him the kick up the ass that jail didn't manage to achieve. I have to say that if I went to jail, I would be having a very long think about my life. It took me just a common or garden crappy relationship with an alcoholic) to do that.

Horses for courses, I suppose.

MsAngel

Before jail he was in a major downward spiral & getting worse by the day. Jail pulled him out of that, but I don't think it brought him to a point where he won't get sucked back in over time. So jail gave him a little kick in the ass, if it hadn't we would likely be well on our way to divorce right now. I just don't think it is enough & hope counseling will provide a further push.

Before jail I used to beg him to go to counseling & he would agree, but then back out with some BS excuse before I even managed to get an appointment. This time it was actually his idea & he hasn't tried to back out yet either. He also appears to be drinking a lot less, I really don't think he has drank since sunday & I'm not even certain he drank then. He seems to be trying harder with me & our son also, we've been making more plans to spend time together & he does more around the house. We have also managed to have real conversations without him getting overly upset or irrational.

So I see little signs that he is trying, but I think it is just a matter of time before he slips back into old patterns unless he gets more help. For the first time he finally does recognize his drinking is an issue & we have marital problems beyond me just being a b****, I really don't think he fully recognizes to what extent he has problems though. I was kind of hoping counseling would help with that. Otherwise it is only a matter of time before the stress of no job, being broke, being semi-homeless, no license, & everything else that hasn't changed since jail leads him back into depression & constant drinking.

So, I know I am building up hope where I shouldn't because as you all are pointing out, counseling won't matter if he isn't ready to change. I know you are right, but this is also truly the first time I've seen any effort on his part to change at all & it does give me hope that he will continue on that path & that counseling might help with that.

We'll just have to see how it goes & hopefully you've all opened my eyes enough that I won't be completely heartbroken if it turns out to be a huge waste of time.

Freedom1990

Tuck this away in the back of your mind for future reference:
His drinking isn't the problem, it's only a symptom.

Even if by some miracle of God he manages to quit on his own, the problem is still very much there.

I have seen a lot of untreated alcoholism sitting in the seats of AA over the years. I have been one of those people before. I wasn't drinking either...for awhile.

coffeedrinker

I understand hopeful, MsAngel.

You're correct; this stuff takes time - years for some of us - and you will get to where you need to be eventually.

What marital counseling did for us, was shine the light on the problems. But it didn't fix any of them. My XAH was not willing (in my humble opinion) to do the hard work, to work through the shame of who he is (believes he is). But it did teach better methods of communication, was validating, and learned other things along the way. I kept going; he stopped quite soon into it.

MsAngel

I think you are completely right. I really think he suffers from depression or is bipolar & drinking is one of the ways he copes & that is another thing I was hoping that counseling would bring to light for him.

I think he also has a lot of unresolved issues from childhood. He doesn't talk about it often, but when he tells stories about growing up they are always so sad. I think I'm the only person in his life that has never seriously let him down.

His childhood is one of the reasons I think I overlooked & excused his behavior for so long, but those excuses only carry you so far & I've realized that crappy childhood or not, I shouldn't accept him treating me so poorly.
Thank you. I get frustrated because my parents kind of have the attitude of "why aren't you filing for divorce yet". I know they don't understand, but I feel like I've come a really long way in 4 months & should be given some credit for that, even if I'm not fully ready to give up on him or our marriage yet.

I know others have stories of getting divorced & then later reconciling as their A finally hit bottom & I'm afraid if I push divorce too early then I will have some sort of false hope that he will get better & we will get back together. I know going for divorce thinking it will be his bottom would be a mistake & only lead to more hurt on my part. It may indeed be his bottom, but I don't want to start the process until I am truly ready to move on from him.