gingercharlie

Something stilllearning posted/asked in another thread really has me wondering...

Are there people out there who manage to get into relationships with an A and stay intact? Who are they? Or does this disease make casualties of all of us?

Bolina

Of course. It's just that you won't see much evidence of them around here. Don't forget that the F&F section of SR is self-selecting - a lot of people who post here for the first time are in a lot of pain. Because things have got bad enough to seek out help in this way. Some people join, post a bit, then leave because they have managed to find a happy medium (perhaps for a while, or perhaps forever). I would guess that it also depends on what one wants out of a relationship/marriage.

And, according to surveys I have read, the vast majority of alcoholics spontaneously recover anyway, or at least do so after brief interventions by those close to them or doctors/police etc. I personally know three people who got in terrible messes with drugs and alcohol who pulled themselves out of the mire with no formal help and have been clean, happy and successful for 15 years or more. Of course, some organisations would not class them as "real" addicts, but I bet they beg to differ.

There are very few relationships that I read about on SR in which I could (now) stay in for more than a few days. But I did stay in one for a lot longer than that. I gained a lot of freedom from working out why I did. I might have got caught in the crossfire of my ex's "disease", but it was my choice to stay so long, and get so entwined, as I did. It didn't feel like that at the time, but I can see it now.

Victim vs Volunteer.
Victim vs Martyr (that was my speciality for a while).

gingercharlie

Anvil,

Why would I? Because with the exception of his the moments when I believed he was intoxicated at some level, I felt that my emotional needs WERE being met. He was supportive of me, my life, my needs. He provided for me in more ways than one. He's not in a position where he'll ever hit rock bottom, nor will his alcoholism ever cause him financial strain (he is well off). And other than those "check out" moments, he was there... for me, with me. I am having trouble getting by without him in those sober moments.

Like Irish Annie, I'm wondering if one could detach enough during intoxicated moments (like Annie, leave the A to their own devices), and still have a symbiotic relationship?

I'm wondering if I had found this place, or Al-An, and found tools to survive, months ago, if we'd still be on the road to happily ever after...

...or whether, with time, we still can be?

Damn, weekends are tough.

Babyblue

It happens but I hear different takes on it. Lots of horror stories. Someone and I have a real interest in one another but after a flurry of excitement in the beginning, he realized that he had to slow down and that he had to be in a better place or he would hurt me. It hurt to hear this but probably not as much as what could have happened had we gone full steam ahead (part of me still wants to but he still reminds me that he has to go slow). My fear is that I am some type of 'practice' relationship to work out his challenges with and when he is feeling stronger, someone else will get the benefit. But that is me being very cynical and not trusting. Except how do you trust an ex addict?? I'm still conflicted about that one. I always need to have one foot on the ground. I thank my stars though that we haven't done anything physical because I don't think he would have handled that well and It would have caused me lots of pain. After hearing all these horror stories, I do see now that my friend is very devoted to his recovery and takes it very seriously so if I care (and I do) I support that. I dont know what is going to happen in the future but I the longer things take to come together, the slower they fall apart and that is what I keep reminding myself.

Kerbcrawler

children involved, financially tied, decent home in hard to come by place, they chip in there bit, its not all one sided, you have space to retreat, and do your own thing, although maybe emotionally, and sensually flatlined, there maybe a little amicable companionship in there also..my take on things, its so different for everybody i guess,
weighing it all up, and reaching your own honest conclusion as to why or why not you should...good luck..sorry should have added childs welfare..

gingercharlie

Anvil, yes. That relationship.

But see, he's not the only one who negatively affected the relationship. I did too, with the behavior described in my thread. If I had been happy, and full on my own, his drinking - to whatever level - wouldn't have affected me as deeply.

If I can get ME back, such that I don't have to rely on him for happiness, or get upset when he can't make me happy (particularly when I'm "needing" him to make me happy and he's intoxicated), is there... hope?

I NEED him... that's how I feel. I NEED him.

coffeedrinker

GC,

I think this is what is called the "bargaining" stage of grief.

Letting go of a dream is REALLY hard.

lulu1974

I have to admit I did go thru this stage myself. The what if stage and it wasnt so bad. Once some time healed me, I was able to see magical thinking was bargaining. I wanted to bargain to hold onto an addict who only emotionally abused and abandoned me. I am not sure which of us was sicker. Me who is/was addicted to the addict or the addict who is addicted to anything or everything from nicotine gum to nyquil, to pain medicine to alcohol, to being loved by anyone. What a viscious cycle. This was a good reminder anvilhead. Thanks
Hugs
Lulu

JenT1968

if you were happy and whole, not relying on him for happiness, having got you back, then you wouldn't NEED him, you wouldn't NEED anyone. You may find at that point that you would rather spend time with one of the many many people who are as supportive as you describe him as being but without addictions. It might not affect your happiness but you may find it tiresome to work around. Or you may not. either way if you do the internal work its a win-win for you.

mrphillipctrs1

Hey Ginger,

I know it's hard. I have been through the stages of grief many times in my life and this one with my XAGF was the worst. For me it was the worst because for the first time in my life I allowed myself to fully experience it, with the grace of God, who protected me through it. Feel your emotions is the best medicine I can give and then come here and talk about them.

The last stage of grief for me was acceptance, and it is a good feeling.

As bad as you may be feeling now, think how good you are going to feel when you realize that you deserve the best in a relationship, where you can be your best and your future partner feels the exact same way?!

You can definitely get there from here.

wicked

anvilhead,
you mean i have to grow up?
damn it all, and i was just starting to have fun.

well, i am sure you mean just keep recovery top priority and have fun?

Learn2Live

I agree with Coffee that it sounds like you are in the bargaining stage of your grief. Good call coffee! I'd also like to point out GingerCharlie: good work for having the courage and thinking it all thru and owning your side of the street!

gingercharlie

I do believe I deserve the best... What's effed up, is that I really, truly, to my core, felt like I had it. Even when he was drunk on the couch.

wicked

gingercharlie,

as a recovering alcoholic the only relationship i had was with my misery. the next time i could check out, recover, and check out again. there was no way to be in a relationship with me, i could not be "normal".
in my experience as a recovering alcoholic, and adult child of an alcoholic and a codependent, yes, we can become the walking wounded.
but help is out there for everyone.
everyone.

gingercharlie

It's really hard owning my side. That's what makes me want to beg, plead, etc., for him back (because I feel like it's mainly my fault), just as I did as he was literally saying the words, "I fell out of love with you, you're not for me." My response? "Um, no. I'm not accepting this, I am not leaving this house. You have to give me a chance!" (Because I had NO clue he was unhappy with ME.)

But see, if it was all somehow HIS fault, I could feel a lot better. But I keep thinking, "I made him drink."

I KNOW, I KNOW, I didn't make him drink, that was HIS choice and he has to own that. Intellectually, I know these things. But his words keep ringing in my ears: "I was too much of a coward and p*ssy to bring this up to you, because I knew it would crush you. So I drank more to push you away, to get you to break up with me first."

Makes me think of him sober, drinking only an ice tea, and watching the US Open, blissfully enjoying his big, empty house that I decorated.

wicked

gotta say, this would infuriate me!
he is a coward but knew breaking it off would crush you?
that ego alone could send you screaming away from this self proclaimed p*ssy!
gah!

mrphillipctrs1

I used to think that way too. But I was thinking through the eyes of an addiction of codependency and myXAGF was looking through the eyes of an alcoholic. It is not rational thinking, regardless of how much I felt the need to justify it. You know?

Believe me I am only a month out of not being around her and it does hurt, but no so much, after I started coming to terms with myself. It sucks, I know, but I am taking it as a life lesson, and doing my level headed best to move on.

Keep posting, it helped me.

JenT1968

"I was horrible, but only in order to try and protect and empower YOU. I just couldn't bear hurting you, really I was being nice" . lol. it's tempting to want to believe that about yourself when you've acted like an ass, that this isn't the real you, that your motives were selfless, however misdirected the actions.

of course, its b*llocks, you don't hurt someone by pushing them away in order to protect them, you do it in order to avoid responsibility, and protect yourself, so you can point the finger and say "this wasn't my decision!", in employment law its called constructive dismissal and carries a hefty penalty, because it is a selfish act.

in all honesty his explanation is probably all about maintaining his own self-image, he probably has to find a reason that he can live with for his behaviour, to some extent we all do this after the fact.

learning to ignore the words and look at the actions, and stop looking for the motives and mitigating factors and see their effects has helped me enormously to find a balance in my life. I am not unforgiving, or ruthless or without empathy, but if someone treats me badly now I no longer try and work out if they were hugged enough as a child, and feel somehow responsible for their continuing happiness.

Learn2Live

Yup. It's hard to look at ourSELVES and see all our imperfections.

Pull yourself together girl. NEVER act like this with a man. Hold your head high. What kind of man would want to be with a woman who grovels like that? Not the kind of man who makes a good partner I can assure you.

What you haven't learned yet is that there is no such thing as fault. Fault is a construct. There is no such thing. You are using the human construct of fault to hide or deflect something else. What is it?

What is he, in high school or something? Pathetic. Why are these pathetic words ringing in your ears?

Did you think the big, decorated house was going to bring something into your life, or create a life for you, that you need to create for yourself? Is that what you are holding onto? Because I'll be honest, I'm not hearing anything special about this guy.

Freedom1990

When you get a chance, listen to this gal speak:
http://www.dogontheroof.com/sue-d-9t...pper200048.mp3

Her name is Sue D. and she's got a heck of a story. Her husband Keith does too.

I relate to both of them.